my first vocals, song 1 of 2

[fearfeasog]

my first vocals, 2 songs

hi all. i have a friend who lives about 5 hours away from me. i ran into him on a visit back home recently and he asked me if i'd be willing to take some of his lyrics and put them to some finished tunes he had done over the last year. i've made some pretty good headway on 2 of them, and i thought i'd see what you all think, if yr willing.

i think the songs themselves are great. the mixing on his end needs some work--he hasn't learned the HPF trick yet, for example, but overall i think they "rock."--for not-exactly-rock songs! with lyrics i think they're even better. i don't want to say alot about the vox, as i want unbiased opinions.

the first song is getting close to done. this is v 4, i see a v 5 and v 6 in the future. let me know what you think.

decided to put the other song in this post too, for your convenience.

 

[fearfeasog]

please guys and girls, really would appreciate your honest opinions, good or bad. i can take it!

 

[maximusbs]

Interesting! I heard some real potential. I heard it like something of of VH's OU812. With a lot of work, less cheezy keys, good guitar, a ton more vocal energy and some arrangement tweaks it could be there (or in the vicinity )! With a little less work you could make it sound like Tears for Fears!

my advice: Listen to songs in the clinic, read critiques, listen, read, etc.

 

[sharonclowe]

you might get more responses if folks didn't have to download (for example that dropbox thing, or soundclick). 1:37/1:38 vocals are off....then after that you get it right and the harmony is cool, then it kinda unravels unpleasantly after the 4:00 mark. Not diggin' that talking part around 2:30. I agree with Maximusbs...needs more energy in vocals and the keys come across kinda sissy. This song never really hooked me in at any point....just kind of floated along, not sure what was a verse, what was a chorus, what was the point, etc. I think you could do a better job on the vocals, b/c when you are in tune and in places where more emotion does escape...it works!

 

[fearfeasog]

you might get more responses if folks didn't have to download (for example that dropbox thing, or soundclick). 1:37/1:38 vocals are off....then after that you get it right and the harmony is cool, then it kinda unravels unpleasantly after the 4:00 mark. Not diggin' that talking part around 2:30. I agree with Maximusbs...needs more energy in vocals and the keys come across kinda sissy. This song never really hooked me in at any point....just kind of floated along, not sure what was a verse, what was a chorus, what was the point, etc. I think you could do a better job on the vocals, b/c when you are in tune and in places where more emotion does escape...it works!

yr absolutely right. my buddy got me hooked on mediafire, so i left dropbox by the wayside for awhile, but i DO still have it. so i'll edit the o.p. with a new link.

as for your comments--thanks so much for listening. the thing that you said that resonates most with me is that you didn't know what was a verse, chorus, etc... YES! it's been bothering me somewhere in the back of my mind too. too many different melodies, right? the first verse is different from the second. the bridge is different from the outtro. verse 3 is like verse 2 but with the harmonies it's still kinda dissimilar too. so it's like there are 5 different verses, all with their own melodies. is that what you were referring to? i'll work on that, thanks.

also, can you tell me what you mean by "the vocals are off? off key, right? i'll check that.

and as for "unravels unpleasantly" --meaning? --too many vox fighting eachother? can you be specific?

thanks again for listening!

Interesting! I heard some real potential. I heard it like something of of VH's OU812. With a lot of work, less cheezy keys, good guitar, a ton more vocal energy and some arrangement tweaks it could be there (or in the vicinity )! With a little less work you could make it sound like Tears for Fears!

my advice: Listen to songs in the clinic, read critiques, listen, read, etc.

thanks for listening @maximusbs. not sure we wanna be Van Halen, but thanks anyway.

good advice about listening and reading, though. can't go wrong there.

 

[kcearl]

well I like the cheesy keys, and the song structure...it has a lot of promise, some clever delays and sweeping pans could really psychedelic this up..

but I think the vocals are very pitchy...some of the words start on tune then finish off tune, not enough to wince but enough to notice from the end of the first line on.. I was hearing it a lot on the final words of lines

I think its almost like hearing a lack of confidence or belief which is a shame as they remind me a little of Tim Burgess's style, not a great traditional vocalist but uses what he has very well...I think they work a lot better when the harmonies come in but Id retrack this again or do a lot of pitch correction...Id also compress them more...sorry

 

[fearfeasog]

some clever delays and sweeping pans could really psychedelic this up..

hi @kcearl, i like the cheesy keys too! for the sweeping pans etc--you mean in the music or in the vox...or both?

but I think the vocals are very pitchy...some of the words start on tune then finish off...i couldnt really point out single instances as I was hearing it a lot

yeah the pitchy thing is me being a not-very-good vocalist/singer. i did tune select parts--not the main verses though. maybe this song is outta my range. def smthg i have to work on. i never knew this Rock-Star thing would be so much work when i got into it!

I think its almost like hearing a lack of confidence or belief...I think they work a lot better when the harmonies come in but Id retrack this again...Id also compress them more

that's what my brother said too. the songwriter is LOVING these trax, so i don't know what to do! maybe he's too close to it too. i guess i just keep plugging away. i'll send out another version soon.

thanks a TON for your comments!

 

[kcearl]

hi @kcearl, i like the cheesy keys too! for the sweeping pans etc--you mean in the music or in the vox...or both?



yeah the pitchy thing is me being a not-very-good vocalist/singer. i did tune select parts--not the main verses though. maybe this song is outta my range. def smthg i have to work on. i never knew this Rock-Star thing would be so much work when i got into it!



that's what my brother said too. the songwriter is LOVING these trax, so i don't know what to do! maybe he's too close to it too. i guess i just keep plugging away. i'll send out another version soon.

thanks a TON for your comments!

no worries man


Im not a great vocalist or record them often but when I do I try to be very definite in what Im singing if that makes sense.

I think this is well within your range I think youre just being mentally sloppy...as its the end of words that are going off many times so it would seem to me that you are focusing on the next line or not focusing at all (sorry if that seems harsh lol I just read it again)

I think you could make a good tune out of this...try doing maybe four of five takes..approach each one with a different thing in mind...more emotion, less emotion, focusing on the end each line confidently, focus on the beginning of each line etc etc and you can comp the tracks together on your DAW...its not like you are far off and its only an afternoons work

Loads of my favourite British singers are not great singers..but they are great vocalists because they dont give a shit if other singers think theyre good..."they" think theyre good, and you can hear that confidence


when I said panning I meant the keys...using multiple layers with different reverbs/delays and some panning will give the whole thing movement and open it up imho

Ill shut up now lol

 

[sharonclowe]

is that what you were referring to? i'll work on that, thanks.

also, can you tell me what you mean by "the vocals are off? off key, right?

and as for "unravels unpleasantly" --meaning? --too many vox fighting eachother? can you be specific?

OK...now I have also listened to the second song (No Memory). vocals are still getting off key at various places. I have a similar complaint again that the song just kind of meanders.

OK...maybe "unravels unpleasantly" was a bit harsh...maybe I was crabby b/c I hadn't had lunch yet?! The unraveling seemed like the best description b/c the vocals are going in weird directions, the swishing provoked some irritation in me, and the haunted house keyboards (while no longer "sissy" ) weren't helping anything.

I certainly don't think this is out of your range as far as vocals go....just needs more attitude/confidence/etc. Definitely glad to hear you will keep plugging away!!!

 

[fearfeasog]

no worries man


Im not a great vocalist or record them often but when I do I try to be very definite in what Im singing if that makes sense.

I think this is well within your range I think youre just being mentally sloppy...as its the end of words that are going off many times so it would seem to me that you are focusing on the next line or not focusing at all (sorry if that seems harsh lol I just read it again)

I think you could make a good tune out of this...try doing maybe four of five takes..approach each one with a different thing in mind...more emotion, less emotion, focusing on the end each line confidently, focus on the beginning of each line etc etc and you can comp the tracks together on your DAW...its not like you are far off and its only an afternoons work

Loads of my favourite British singers are not great singers..but they are great vocalists because they dont give a shit if other singers think theyre good..."they" think theyre good, and you can hear that confidence


when I said panning I meant the keys...using multiple layers with different reverbs/delays and some panning will give the whole thing movement and open it up imho

Ill shut up now lol

yr awesome, dude! harsh is good--i want this song to be good, y'know?

at the same time, it's my first time doing this AT ALL, and at some point i need to move on, and learn from my suckage! ha!

thanks alot--good on ya.

 

[fearfeasog]

OK...now I have also listened to the second song (No Memory). vocals are still getting off key at various places. I have a similar complaint again that the song just kind of meanders.

well, i AM having difficulty with the "meandering" thing and here's why--the songs were not written for vocals! at least that's sort of my take. in Kings and Queens there is at least a little structure, a build up, with some bridge like breaks. No Memory is just about the same all the way thru. to me that was a REALLY hard challenge in terms of injecting some structure into the song, coming up with melodies etc. i used what WAS there to base my melodies and structures on.

anyway, that said, i do think that i no memory has a little structure coming into it, but def needs more. i have to work on that one alot yet. all the "ahhhhs" in the middle are super annoying, i'll grant, and the chorus kinda sux, and sorta comes outta nowhere. seems so different from the verses in general feel, too.

as for being out of tune--the verses are obviously heavily "autotuned" with Reaper's "reaTune" plug in, and the choruses are not tuned. i need to totally rework the choruses, so let's just pretent we didn't hear them, shall we?

OK...maybe "unravels unpleasantly" was a bit harsh...maybe I was crabby b/c I hadn't had lunch yet?! The unraveling seemed like the best description b/c the vocals are going in weird directions, the swishing provoked some irritation in me, and the haunted house keyboards (while no longer "sissy" ) weren't helping anything.

I certainly don't think this is out of your range as far as vocals go....just needs more attitude/confidence/etc. Definitely glad to hear you will keep plugging away!!!

HA HA! i know what you mean--pre lunch crabbiness.. then there's post lunch sluggishness. it's all lunch's fault!

i totally get your unravelling image, actually. makes sense too-- i just wondered if you meant that there are too many harmonies? and is the "swishing" like in the keys or vox? i shall listen again...

haunted house keys--LOVE IT! i HAVE to link my friend to this thread!

 

[maximusbs]

no worries man


Im not a great vocalist or record them often but when I do I try to be very definite in what Im singing if that makes sense.

I think this is well within your range I think youre just being mentally sloppy...as its the end of words that are going off many times so it would seem to me that you are focusing on the next line or not focusing at all (sorry if that seems harsh lol I just read it again)

I think you could make a good tune out of this...try doing maybe four of five takes..approach each one with a different thing in mind...more emotion, less emotion, focusing on the end each line confidently, focus on the beginning of each line etc etc and you can comp the tracks together on your DAW...its not like you are far off and its only an afternoons work

Loads of my favourite British singers are not great singers..but they are great vocalists because they dont give a shit if other singers think theyre good..."they" think theyre good, and you can hear that confidence


when I said panning I meant the keys...using multiple layers with different reverbs/delays and some panning will give the whole thing movement and open it up imho

Ill shut up now lol

Wow, great advice Keith! Where'd all that tactful insight come from?
Well said.

 

[kcearl]

Wow, great advice Keith! Where'd all that tactful insight come from?
Well said.

shut up you and get back to your guitars


@fearfeasog

youve got a good attitude, you need it in this game, and if this is seriously your first time well done..

yup its good to move on and learn..but if you have the confidence to post first time stuff to a bunch of strangers then youve got the confidence you need to nail this


Ill definitely shut up now

 

[fearfeasog]

shut up you and get back to your guitars


@fearfeasog

youve got a good attitude, you need it in this game, and if this is seriously your first time well done..

yup its good to move on and learn..but if you have the confidence to post first time stuff to a bunch of strangers then youve got the confidence you need to nail this


Ill definitely shut up now

thanks! just trying not to take it too seriously. i'm too old for that anyway.

 

[TripleM]

I liked the sound of the synths. Although I didn't personally care for the bass sound, I thought it worked well in this mix.

The kick and snare are a little on the wimpy side. I'd like something that really cuts through the mix and hit you in the chest.

The vocals have some pitch problems. Some cool processing on them however.

 

[fearfeasog]

I liked the sound of the synths. Although I didn't personally care for the bass sound, I thought it worked well in this mix.

The kick and snare are a little on the wimpy side. I'd like something that really cuts through the mix and hit you in the chest.

The vocals have some pitch problems. Some cool processing on them however.

thanks, @TripleM. i appreciate you listening!

 

[fearfeasog]

I liked the sound of the synths. Although I didn't personally care for the bass sound, I thought it worked well in this mix.

The kick and snare are a little on the wimpy side. I'd like something that really cuts through the mix and hit you in the chest.

The vocals have some pitch problems. Some cool processing on them however.

so last night i messed around with overlaying a bass and snare pattern on the track during the verse parts. i used ez drummer. btw i only have the stereo mixdown sent to me by the musician, so i couldn't really "mix" it in--just sort of try to color match, so to speak. it makes quite a difference. even if it's just mixed in very low, it adds a little fullness and spank to the snare, almost like parallel compression. the bass drum i kept even lower, but i think if i eq a little of the right freq in, it will have the same positive effect.

thanks for the idea!

 

[fearfeasog]

so last night i messed around with overlaying a bass and snare pattern on the track during the verse parts. i used ez drummer. btw i only have the stereo mixdown sent to me by the musician, so i couldn't really "mix" it in--just sort of try to color match, so to speak. it makes quite a difference. even if it's just mixed in very low, it adds a little fullness and spank to the snare, almost like parallel compression. the bass drum i kept even lower, but i think if i eq a little of the right freq in, it will have the same positive effect.

thanks for the idea!

i mean KICK, not Bass guitar, of course. never could stop myself saying bass drum instead of kick drum.