Marketing and promotion - an experiment

  • Thread starter Thread starter rob aylestone
  • Start date Start date
Rob, did they give a reason why you were rejected, especially when they originally said "no problem"? It seems that you met the criteria, you have the license and PRS/ASCAP.
Everything looks so arbitrary!
 
They've given me the same reasons as the other failed attempts, but suggested I can add certain things - so I have screen shot the band's release artist page on deezer, the same on spotify. I've provided a UPC code for one of the released tracks proving the band name and song title are released. I've uploaded a mechanical licence document - I have even screen shot the page from the UK Phonographic Performance Licence showing the band name and registered titles. They were so clear on it's fine, then it's not. I really don't know how to counter whatever is in the system that doesn't like us? There may well be humans in the system, but clearly they are not in charge!
 
Good grief, that is just awful. Sorry you had to go through all of that.
 
I'm on a quest now! I had to actually start from scratch again - and supply all the requested documentation again - once rejected, it can't be reactivated - so now I am on hopefully a final run. If they reject it again, I genuinely don't know any other way to prove the band has existed for 20+ years, in a way they will accept. I had to actually join Deezer (who I don't usually use) just to be able to validate that they are distributing the bands stuff already. Ditto did credit me the fees, so I could just use them again. I had a piece of my video music sitting here, under my name - so tried releasing that to see, and it got cleared in two hours!

I suppose it could have been worse - imagine if your band was called Hotel California - with Mr Henley's copyright quest, you'd have no chance.
 
........ and despite all the info, they have rejected it again! It's turning into a farce!
 
What a nightmare - after all that time spent. To me - the most frustrating part is (if I understand correctly) there's probably not a live person who can be easily contacted, hear your valid gripe, and take action to correct it.
 
I got a human, who clearly thought - I get it, what he is asking makes sense - BUT - the actual releases are automated, and I guess namecheck and even an image search on the artwork to stop you putting unfair artwork out there - I also suspect they do a sort of shazam search too, where if your release is flagged as somebody elses - either as a direct copy with new name or even as a previously claimed item, you are stuck. I got one blocked last year. A choir singing a piece of well known classical music - I was told the copyright belonged to a small label in Germany. They said I could contest their claim - but warned of legal expenses. I contested that and after 8 weeks, the claim was set aside. Theirs was a choir in Germany, mine a choir in England - but the same piece of public domain music!
 
Ah.... interesting. Sheesh. In a sense.... that makes it even worse. :facepalm:
 
There is hope ........
Hello!

Please be informed that your release "God Only Knows" was approved and sent to stores. It should go live in 48-72 hours across the major stores.

Hope this helps🙌

That's three customer support people had a hand in what should have been simple. 72 hours and I will know!
 
I found testing small promos one by one helped more than relying on any single distributor. I’d post short clips, track what actually gets clicks, then focus only on what moves people.
 
rob aylestone said:
We have often mentioned what you actually do with music once you create it, so I have had an idea.
I've used Distrokids, CDbaby, Record Union Songtradr to release stuff in the past, and with the exception of Distrokids who screwed me over, they all have differences.
What I came up with was a collection of a few tracks from an old project, that is now officially dead, but usable. They have issues on a number of fronts, and actually releasing them was difficult. I thought it might help other people if I explain the trouble I have had. The tracks are stage tracks - add in this case girl singer, a few musicians and the tracks and you have a show. I've played in the missing live tracks - well, actually, I had recorded them as scratch tracks to help the mix, and then muted them - so just put them back. The songs were for a Carpenters tribute show - think theatres. They are for public consumption essentially karaoke tracks I suppose - sing alongs. Karaoke is a problem with some distributors, but not others, but releasing this has been quite interesting - as in the variety of issues. I'll redact identifying info of course, but you can see the sort of issues that crop up.
Let's start with Record Union - who are always friendly and quite personal. For newer members - when I first signed up for this American hosted forum - I had just got my adoption records unsealed so I joined with my American dad's birth name - Robert Aylestone. My adopted name is Paul Johnson - so I'm Rob here, Paul on the releases. Probably stupid to use it, but I did!

Hi Paul,
XXXX here, from the Content team at Record Union. 

We've reviewed your release "Close to You - Karaoke Version" with UPC: 7321170XXXX and "Goodbye to Love - Karaoke version"
with UPC 73211XXXX, and it's been flagged for containing original recordings by another artist.
When releasing music containing samples, licenses and/or written permissions from the original copyright holder(s) are required. Please send us the documentation needed, and we’ll proceed from there.
In the case of samples of recorded material, we'll need to see documentation from both the publishing house for the songwriter/composer and from the record label with rights to the recording.
If you do not own the right to distribute all contents of your release: We advise you to remove the release from your account, to prevent the subscription from renewing in the future. 

Releasing copyrighted material is a serious breach of copyright law and a violation of our user agreement.
Let me know if you have any questions on the above. 

Best regards,

Now - the UK situation is that we don't need clearance for streaming services, but I am a PRS member here, and the original composers get their percentage from the distribution. However, it was flagged too for containing original samples from the original - nope, all me and my singers. So no original Carpenters audio at all. With a different distributer - Songtradr - I got this notification
Hi Paul,

Your release Stage Tracks 2 failed validation and we may require more info. Please log into your account to find out more.
Logging just had the release set to inactive with this message
Your Release was Rejected

Hi,

Please note, we are unable to distribute Karaoke tracks at this time.

So that was record union and songtradr out for this release. I moved onto CDBaby. I tried tunecore to be honest where I have an account, but something prevented me using them (my account is their but no release - not quite sure why I could not use them).

CDBaby took the release in the end - but even cover art can get you in trouble. Read this:

Hi Paul,
The #1 reason why cover art gets rejected on streaming platforms is...

... the text on the image doesn't exactly match the info on your release.

If you’re a Nova Scotian fiddle group called The Halifax Pickers, but your album art says just Halifax Pickers, your cover art will get rejected.

If you’re a singer-songwriter who goes by J.B. Smooth, then the album art CANNOT say JB Smooth. The punctuation must be the exact same on both your album and artist name.

Pretty straightforward, right? That's the most important thing to know.

You can check out this cover art guide for a complete list of all the rules.

In my case - trademarks also matter. 'Carpenters' is Trademarked. My release of Carpenters tracks cannot include that name anywhere - let alone the exact typography they used. I wanted Carpenters Karaoke Tracks - absolute no no. Even the word Carpenters in Arial in the image was noted and rejected. The upshot is you cannot use the original artists name, image, style and anything at all that could rock the boat.

The image I ended up was a shot I took myself, and edited in photoshop. The title Stage Tracks 2 (there having been a Stage Tracks many years before) worked. CdBaby used Paul Johnson. Sometimes Sontradr won't let me use that, so then it becomes Paul Robert Johnson. It happened by mistake once from the metadata, so I think somehow they get linked. Worse is that Spotify put some of US Rap artist Paul Johnson in my music, and he gets my go to sleep music in his. There seems no way to correct this kind of thing.

Lastly income. Tiny! I get payments direct from CDbaby, Songtradr and Record Union - often the money is so low, it does not meet their threshold and gets hung over. However - as soon as the songs are live, I register them on the UK PRS system, and the payments from that can be much more pleasing. A few million streams in Europe and the US can pay decent money.

For this experiment I have tried a new system CDBaby offered - promotion via a system called hear now. I paid them 28 US Dollars to promote the album. Just to see what happens. There is a little web page set up that makes your music available with links.
This is what you get for $28 hearNow link

I'll give it a few months then come back and update this topic and let you know what info I get and any real response. I won't promote it in any other way myself, so it will be realistic. I've also been reading some SheerID reviews, and it got me thinking about how different platforms handle verification and content checks. At one point I nearly gave up, the Carpenters just too much trouble. I thought of bands like the Eagles, known for their YouTube takedowns, especially Hotel California. I'd imagine releasing a cover of any Eagles songs would be worse than this example.

If you have had success or failure - please feel free to add them here. It could make life easier for people knowing they are not alone in release woes!
Click to expand...
I think the biggest takeaway is how much of the hassle comes from the distributor rather than the music itself. The fact that Record Union flagged your recordings as containing original Carpenters audio, when everything was recorded by you and your singers, really shows how unreliable automated checks can be. The trademark issue was interesting too. I wouldn't have thought simply putting “Carpenters” on the artwork could cause problems with an independently recorded cover project. The Spotify artist mix-up sounds like an even bigger headache. Hopefully the HearNow experiment gives you some useful numbers. I’ll be interested to see your update after a few months, especially whether the $28 promotion actually produces any worthwhile streams.
 
I’ve not noticed anything really happen with the take up, but at least it worked. I have had another interesting one with songtradr. I was sent a pretty poor recording of a band I was in from 1976. For nostalgia, I released it. Four listeners guaranteed. It was called TV Games. I conjured up a quick image and up it went. Sailed through approvals. Then I took the vocals and the drums and did a new version. The image I changed to TV Games 2026. It got rejected. Three times. The problem was that the image I used was a screen from the original space invaders game, including the words ‘space invaders’. I removed these words as requested. It was approved. The first release also had these words. So they applied a rule differently, then appeals stuck to it. I did not mentioned the first one. Seems very random.
 
rob aylestone said:
We have often mentioned what you actually do with music once you create it, so I have had an idea.
I've used Distrokids, CDbaby, Record Union Songtradr to release stuff in the past, and with the exception of Distrokids who screwed me over, they all have differences.

I tried tunecore to be honest where I have an account, but something prevented me using them (my account is their but no release - not quite sure why I could not use them).
Click to expand...
We use TuneCore with great success - The uploading process is broken down into four parts: Release Details, Stores & Social Platforms, Tracks, and Artwork. You have to complete all four sections, before you are able to send your release for review - Tunecore reviews the releases and either kick it back because of copywriter infringement or other concerns - they give you time to correct what the problem might be - If approved they release it to over 130 site/stores - and it takes about 3 days - One song - “Dear John’ by Taylor Swift I got so close to the original tracks (franky it was pretty easy) they kicked it back and said I was using her tracks - we went back and forth for a couple of days and then they approved it - i have no idea why because all I said was that we recorded it ourselves in my Studio- which I guessed they believed me.

I uploaded a original track and had to upload my ASCAP affiliation so they would pay residuals on the writing - I was already getting paid on the mechanicals.

Overall They have been very good to me.
 
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