My Corona

[miroslav]

You know.......when this is over.........no one in this thread will have been 100% right.

TBH...I would rather be 100% wrong about the long-term economic doom-n-gloom...than right.
So I hope all the shutting in suddenly has a dramatic positive effect on stopping the virus.
I would gladly say I was wrong if we can get back to normal life quickly.

 

[TAE]

My Nephew happens to be living / working there right now...they ain't playin

 

[miroslav]

My Nephew happens to be living / working there right now, they ain't playin...

We're getting close to that here...and I can't believe that some people are actually calling for martial law to be implemented to force people to stay in.
These are most likely the same people who will later on cry that their rights have been taken away.

I look at the numbers in the USA...and the mortality rate has not increased in several days, even though we show more infected and more deaths....and it's less than in some other countries....with mainly the NYC area driving the numbers up for the whole country, and where the NYS "PAUSE" has been in effect for over two weeks now.
So the spread has continued with the "PAUSE"...and IMO...mainly because it was already well spread in that area.
The rest of the country is not seeing that same kind of progression over the last two weeks...yet now, they say the next two weeks we can expect a huge rise in spread and deaths...?

TBH...I'm not sure if much of this is just guesstimating, or they know more then they are saying...but then, most of the important questions about the virus are answered with things like..."we're not sure"..."we need to do a study"..."we just don't know".

So here's one question that I haven't found a clear answer to...maybe someone here has.
Since now they have reversed the view on wearing masks, which I knew was coming, and that the original view that they were not needed by anyone other than medical staff, was just a bedtime story because they knew a shortage existed and if they said from the start we should be wearing them, they would have vanished off the shelves 10X faster...
...so my question is if you were already infected, as they are suggesting is the case for possibly 70% of the people, especially in and around the "hot zones"...and you have NOT felt any symptoms...and you were already at home for 2+ weeks as told to do...then what's the point of still wearing the masks...?
I mean...if you had the virus without getting sick, after a couple of weeks, your body would have developed immunity and you would no longer be contagious...so you should be able to walk freely without fear of infecting others ...no?

I'm also not sure if the tests they have can tell if you had the virus, after a couple of weeks have passed, and you were no longer contagious...?
The thing I'm getting at is that if they knew that...then anyone who has been exposed, infected, never gotten sick, and remained shut in for a couples of weeks...would then be potentially immune and also no longer a threat...no?
So then those people could get back to normal life...and help keep things going, while the rest work their way through it.

Anyway...I've not seen any of the "experts" discussing those questions or possible scenarios...what happens to the people who never show symptoms, after a couple of weeks of home quarantine...are they "safe"...?

 

[CoolCat]

So you seem to be asking can a person catch it twice.

And thats a question in the news all over the world recently, per my google, "can you catch the virus twice?" and select NEWS.
They dont have a clear answer is my impression. As in any scenario there seems theres never a "100% one size fits all for everyone all the time" answer.

The economy crashing is as interesting as the flu. And the Govt , in comparison to the Great Depression, has those things in place from the Great Depression like INsured bank cash, and the Gov is now trying to send everyone cash to prop up the economy which wasnt done during the Great Depression.....so its similar to the virus, there doesnt seem to be a "100% one size fits all for everyone all the time" fix for this unknown territory we are going into.

Its all a guessing game, as we used to sarcastically joke at work...make your best SWAG!!! (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)

 

[miroslav]

So you seem to be asking can a person catch it twice.

Yeah...I guess that's one part of it...but more so, if you had it, after a couple of weeks, can you still be contagious to pass it on?

I'm just thinking that if they could answer those questions...it could loosen up things a bit, and allow some people to get back to work if the answer to both questions is "no".

 

[RFR]

Diseases come and go. People live and die. This happens all on it’s own, it’s part of the natural order.

But a society that is free and prosperous, one where life is worth living, takes work to build, and more importantly, takes work to keep.

I’m baffled at how easily everyone has willingly given up their rights and freedoms.

We’re all under house arrest.

The ‘authorities’ have deemed what is essential and what isn’t.

We’ll be notified when we are ‘allowed’ to go back outside.

We live under tyranny.

Many will be forever out of work because their jobs simply wont be there when the lockdown, which, btw, is a prison term, is lifted.
Savings will be wiped out as people will be digging into them to survive.

Massive amounts of money are being funneled into the major corporations while the common working person gets some crumbs.

In Los Angeles, the mayor announced a snitch program complete with rewards for people turning in others for violating the ’guidelines‘’.
People are being fined and arrested.

This whole thing is insane.

In the end, the governments and major corporations will have more power than ever before and ‘we, the people’ will have much less.

We’re walking right into a police state, probably already there.

And this doesn’t bother people?

And those who point out that the cure is worse than the disease get censored, ridiculed, accused of wanting people to die.

Sorry, but we’re all being played.
The disease is not as bad as they are making it out to be. Its not the end of the world.

But the cure is. We are literally walking into the Orwellian nightmare.

 

[CoolCat]

This is about all I get from all of it in general...and makes the news and articles kind of meaningless.
“We all wish that we had the answers, but in infectious disease epidemiology we are accustomed to operating in this uncertain space,” says Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. She has previously studied infectious disease like Ebola and MERS, all of which she says present similar challenges early on when definitive information is scarce; with any new virus, thorough scientific investigations take time. “It probably seems frustrating to readers, but this is one of the challenges of facing a new pathogen.”

Statistics only show something that already happened but can just be a SWAG for something thats never happened before.

 

[miroslav]

Sorry, but we’re all being played.

One thing that's becoming annoying to listen to or read is the constant repetition of the phrase - "we're all in it together".
It's starting to sound like mind conditioning propaganda...to get everyone to accept a single collective thought process.

TBH, with everyone sitting at home, segregated from each other...it's more like we're each on our own with this.
Sure, we are dealing with the same thing...but we've been put in a position where the forbidden social interaction leaves us dealing with this alone...
...and if things get really bad in the long-term, that will start to become more the reality...people totally focused on their individual survival.

 

[RFR]

One thing that's becoming annoying to listen to or read is the constant repetition of the phrase - "we're all in it together".
It's starting to sound like mind conditioning propaganda...to get everyone to accept a single collective thought process.

TBH, with everyone sitting at home, segregated from each other...it's more like we're each on our own with this.
Sure, we are dealing with the same thing...but we've been put in a position where the forbidden social interaction leaves us dealing with this alone...
...and if things get really bad in the long-term, that will start to become more the reality...people totally focused on their individual survival.

I’ve made an interesting observation ( to me anyway).......

I’ll call people I know, and they won’t pick up. I’ll get a text the next day or so, but they won’t pick up the damn phone.
Leaves me scratching my head.....“I know you’re home, I know you’re not in a work at home profession”.
I can understand texting under normal circumstances. People are busy and it’s an easy way to communicate to the point without excess chatter.
But I feel it has desensitized people to any kind of real interaction.

I think it was George Carlin who pointed out that we have more communications technology, but communicate less.

Yeah, the “we’re all in this together’ is just some feel good bullshit.

 

[miroslav]

I think it was George Carlin who pointed out that we have more communications technology, but communicate less.

Not to go off topic of the coronavirus...but if you want to see just how much control technology has created that we've become totally OK with...
...find and watch a documentary called: "Stare Into the Lights My Pretties"
It was done in 2017, and it's starts off about the evolution of computers and technology, but very quickly gets into how that technology is being used and the effects it has on our lives...and toward the end, it digs into just how much we are being controlled by it for a variety of uses/reasons, and we've all become use to it, and don't even realize we're living in a world that's being dictated by someone/something else through the technology we use.

Kinda freaky when you see it all detailed and explained...but it's 100% spot on.

 

[TAE]

I look at the numbers in the USA...and the mortality rate has not increased in several days, even though we show more infected and more deaths....and it's less than in some other countries..with mainly the NYC area driving the numbers up for the whole country, and where the NYS "PAUSE" has been in effect for over two weeks now.

Well they say it's all about perspective.... I've been tracking daily percentages via worldometer in excel so I thought I'd share what has gone down just here in the U.S. in the last 11 days to get a sobering look the gravity of the situation not from day to day but between March 25th and April 5th...It's called lying with statistics... so yeah mortality rates haven't increased much in several days ....only from 1.5% to 2.86% in 11 days we're doing much better than other places.... then you step back and look at the actual numbers....
Seriously sad shit knowing that there were a 8500 ( corrected number) more people alive 11 days ago that all have been killed by this "nothing more than a flu" virus... puts a different perspective on mortality rates haven't increased much.

what happens to the people who never show symptoms, after a couple of weeks of home quarantine...are they "safe"...?

It is highly unlikely we can get the virus twice but we truly just don't know for sure....I believe I read.... but can't confirm at the moment some countries are letting people who have the antibody in them but don't test positive for the virus anymore are being allowed to go out and about.

 

[Mickster]

Paranoia runs deep. Into your heart it will creep.

 

[Mickster]

What if there was no vaccine for the flu? Do you think people would worry more? Do you think more would die? Of course they would. Comparing this to the flu makes no sense when there's is a vaccine for the flu...........and people at least have the option to get the vaccine.

What if there was a vaccine for Covid-19? Do you think the reaction from any side would be as it has been? Of course not. It would be treated like a flu.

So.....the difference in how people see this virus has almost everything to do with the fact that there is no vaccine...........and as such......no option to avoid getting it. That's as simple as it gets.

Hey children what's that sound..............everybody look what's going down.

When this is over........no one will have been 100% right or 100% wrong.....no one. But...as I've mentioned previously.....almost nobody will have changed their mind when this is over. The paranoid conspiracy believers will remain paranoid. The righteous indignant will still think others are stupid. And so on.......

 

[miroslav]

Seriously sad shit knowing that there were a 1/4 million more people alive 11 days ago that all have been killed by this "nothing more than a flu" virus... puts a different perspective on mortality rates haven't increased much.

Not sure where how you do your math...but worldwide, there are about 70K dead, USA about 10K....not sure where you see a "quarter million"...?
Looking at the mortality rate gives insight as to how many will survive...which was a key point everyone raised about this virus, that the mortality rate was higher than the flu. So...if it's not increasing even though more people are getting infected...it means more are surviving.


Since you're focused on the number of total deaths...

The WHO estimates that seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year.
In 2018-2019 the CDC estimates over 34,000 died in the USA due to flu.

I don't recall anyone making much noise about those numbers.

Comparing this to the flu makes no sense when there's is a vaccine for the flu...

Those numbers above are WITH the vaccine available....with many still getting the flu, because it doesn't work every season, as the 2017-2018 season showed.
Don't assume that those who die...had a choice because there was a vaccine.
Again...there is very little noise ever made about the seasonal flu deaths that occur year, after year, after year.....

 

[miroslav]

Nobody is saying that we should just "let people die"...but it's going to happen.
They are dying because they are sick and they can't cope with the virus, most often due to already compromised health.

Thing is...if we are going to talk about the number of dead...because death is generally a bad thing...then it should mean the same thing no matter the cause.
If 10K die because of flu...and 10K die because of COVID-19...it's the same thing....but yet, it's not being treated that way.
How about 10K deaths from drunk drivers...?

Do you know how many people die each year from starvation...9 million. Yet food is everywhere, and more effective than vaccine for flu.
Over 200K children die each year from TB...and TB is preventable and even curable.
The world has not been put on hold for any of the above causes of death...and yet they will all reoccur each year.

When one type of unexpected/premature death is basically dismissed as a common occurrence, so no need to make any noise about it...while another is mourned and highly publicized...it kinda comes off pretty hypocritical....but I get it, the media likes fear and panic, which is what this virus is causing.

 

[Mickster]

Those numbers above are WITH the vaccine available....

Exactly my point. Think about how many would have died without the vaccine. And do you really think that wouldn't be as big a challenge / story as what we're facing now?

BTW.....since 1975 the flu vaccine has always had at least some effect on overall flu cases and death as every new vaccine includes some common strains. Obviously a vaccine lessens the chance of getting the flu.....or eliminates it in many if not most cases. In years where the strain target is missed.....there is some amelioration and lessened severity due to common strains.

Hopefully less than 34k will die form this thing this year........but only a couple months in......it's not looking like that.

As well.........I'm not overlooking your point about TB and starvation......(you left out cancer). Because I left those things out does not mean I don't equate them. It just means that those topics are another complete conversation IMO.

 

[TAE]

Not sure where how you do your math... ...

I guess I could have "my people" issue a "no comment" about where I got them...LOL I guess out of my ass ...I caught the Newsomism disease! Holy shit it was early this morning and I was running late for a delightful trip to City of hope for an MRI..

Yeah I though that was a crazy high number but didn't double check where I was getting my dumbass numbers and used the new cases in U.S. as opposed to new deaths ..still alarming when you think about it BTW The numbers were right there in the post ... I just screwed up in what I said...sorry man and thanks for the catch,,, so 11 days ago @1000 dead 11 days later 9500 dead so....in my math wizardry that is a 89% increase in deaths in 11 days.....

The numbers are below...

 

[miroslav]

The virus and death and mayhem it's causing is concerning...but I think way overblown on the "fear-n-panic" scale when you consider all the other things that kill people on a reoccurring basis, and many of those things we could solve...but because they are not "knocking on our door"...they become a small news byte that disappears between "pass the gravy" and "what's for desert".

Let's just keep it all in perspective...and not focus on this one event, so much that we allow it to do more harm indirectly, than it's doing directly.

Today, there was some positive glimmer that we've hit the virus peak in the USA.
I took notice that April 4 numbers were the first solid drop compared to the last several days...not sure about yesterday or today numbers yet.

 

[TAE]

Since you're focused on the number of total deaths...

The WHO estimates that seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year.
In 2018-2019 the CDC estimates over 34,000 died in the USA due to flu.

I don't recall anyone making much noise about those numbers.

The reason this is so much more serious of a disease is the crazy high death rate for those that get Covid-19 compared to flu... "The seasonal flu" that we deal with every year has a mortality on a 10 year average as illustrated below of 0.13%,” Based upon the current world average of @ 5.45 % ( yeah 5.5 out of 100) If you get Covid-19 your chances of kicking the bucket vs the flu are multiplied by 55 times ...add to that though there are some that have no symptoms or moderate, most are saying ......that live to tell the tale it was the most horrendous painful virus they have ever had..and those that do die, die a horrific death by suffocation... so yeah we have to do our best to stop this dirty bugger in it's tracks as it isn't anything like the common flu and if we let it spread like we let the flu spread it would be a hideous worldwide catastrophe.

So to be as accurate as I can be and just focusing on the U.S. Saying we just didn't do anything and just let the Covid-19 "run it's course" like we do with the flu...using the CDC numbers located HERE and averaging the amount of cases and deaths in the last 10 years we come up with an average of 28.6 million people get the flu every year in the U.S. / 8.76% of the US population. 37,462 die from it or .13% ....Using those same average numbers with Covid-19.... assuming that it would have spread similarly like the flu had we not gone to the extreme lengths we have gone to curtail it.. Using the low death rate that the U.S. is enjoying of 2.55% rather than the average of 5.5% dying worldwide. Using the same numbers with a population of 327 million..exact amount of cases here's what you get...
37,329 die from the flu...and.....are you ready for this? 7.3 million die from Covid....and that is why we have to kick this bugs ass in any way , shape or form we can kicks its ass... It's a deadly , painful virus not to be compared with the flu other than they are both virus's...

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[TAE]

And now for a moment of peace and wewaxation....

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