muffled sounding mix

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Adrenaline

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I was just wondering if anyone had any techniques for getting a more clear, upfront sound. I am thinking a lot of it has to do with my raw recordings.

I am running mics into an alesis 1622 16 channel studio mixer, and that into a SB audigy 2 sound card (which sucks because all my channels get mixed down to one channel on the digital recording, but it can do 24 bit). I have 2 sm57s, 1 sm58, 2 (overhead) oktava MK-012 condensers with a stereo PreSonus BlueTUBE preamp, and a cheap drum mic pack (3 tom mics and a kick).

I am really having trouble getting good sounding distorted guitar, and the drums just don't seem to "pop".
 
Lose that Bluetube. Those things add a ton of hiss, noise and tubbiness. Terrible preamp.
 
Pure skill can and will get you that clear and upfront sound everybody wants. :D

For real you can have the most expensive studio in the whole world and it dont mean jack sh!t if you can use anything in it.

And some people can get busy with only basic recording tools and make a track sound "pro".

Just my opinion on it all.
 
What does that have to do with the fact that the BlueTube is probably the worst sounding preamp I've ever heard? The Alesis 1622 mixer schools it and that's just pathetic.

While skill is the most important thing, I feel that equipment limitations set a glass ceiling on the quality of a recording.

With that being said, I think it would be interesting to hear what Mr. Big Name Engineer sounded like on a home recording setup recording a crappy local band. How much different would it be from many of us here?

I'm thinking not too darn different.
 
That's the thing - A "crappy local band" will sound "essentially" similar on almost anything you put them through. Manley and SSL don't mean diddly with a bad core sound.

On the other hand, remarkably decent recordings can be made with unremarkable gear IF the core sounds are high quality. 90% of it is the core sounds. Without that, the very best you can expect is a great recording of crappy sound.
 
So at what point does the engineer cease to take credit for a recording?

And--could one consider someone a better engineer if they are able to get better results from a crummy band than someone else?
 
Just my two peneth, But i wondered if you are using alot of effects to compensate for poor recording quality. It's an easy mistake to make. All these guys are absolutely right when the say that the better it sounds on the way in, The better it sounds. I personally find that using very little effect will generally give a more upfront and natural sound. Also what are your doing with your panning? A good way to start thinking about panning is think of a band on a stage, say two guitars, bass, drums, Lead vocal, backing vocal. I don't use live drums so I won't make any suggestions here but guitars will probably be either side, bass down the middle (or maybe just off centre) Lead Vocals down the middle, backing vocals to one side.
 
Engineering skill is big, great musicians is even bigger. The best sessions I've ever been part of have been with engineers/producers that really work with the artists to get the most out of them. Almost half shrink/half engineers...
 
Well the main problem I can imagine with the drums is probably phase. When your mixing down to one stereo track, you really need to make sure the kit is miced very well, which can be very hard to do when you are using 5 or more mics. The best drums sounds I've gotten were with 4 mics, but the toms didn't come through very well. If I do add tom mics, I'll usually gate them, unless they really add to the sound of the kit, which actually has never been the case so far.

Thats gonna be one of the limitations of your setup. You could try using less mics and have the drummer play in relation to this, for example, maybe hit the toms harder... Or you could try flipping phase on some mics, but most cheap mixers don't have this option. Does the bluetube have phase flipping? Maybe try using that on the kick and flipping it.

As far as distorted guitar, it's never been that difficult for me if I've been recording people with good amps and guitars. Unfortunately most guitar players aren't that great at setting up their tone for recording, usually I need them to turn down the gain and try to go for a dryer sound then they usually have. Also, again, if you are mixing it all down to a stereo track, I would recomend just trying one mic, probably the 57, or 012.

But if you really want to step up your quality maybe trying getting more inputs. I'm not saying it can't be done with what you got, but it'll probably be a lot more difficult.
 
I think the problems with drums are the mics.

I've hardly used anything but cheap drum mics, and while I've gotten some decent sounds, it's only after using eq and compression to make up for the mics not being open sounding and trying to get more toward the sound that should ideally be recorded in the first place by using the right mic the right way (as opposed to a poor mic the only way it allows).

Although the oktavas and the 57's should be all right to get a decent sound. You might wanna try using a 57 or 58 on the kic instead of the cheap one if you haven't already - they just dont have that low end that you'd want from a kick mic, but they're most likely far more clear sounding and will capture the punch and presence a lot better than the cheap mics - which in my opinion is more important than the way low end to the overall sound of a rock mix.

I'd probably go for a sound card more designed for recording for your next upgrade - the sound blaster wont be too great in terms of the a/d and such things, and even just a 99 buck AudioBuddy would blow it out of the water for recording purposes - or you could go for something with more inputs if you want also.

For guitar, my suggestions are pretty much just "mic placement". I dont know how much you already know about it, but I know that, for me, the realization of the importance of mic placement was the single most important factor in getting good guitar sounds.... although unfortunately now I've hit the next road block with the fact that my amp isn't that great sounding =(


And just practice practice practice, in general. Getting things clear and not muddy sounding is one of those things that I've seen improve constantly in my recordings, even when I dont do thigns differentlly.... dunno what it is I'm getting better at, but it seems that the more I record, the better results I get from the same techniques.

Hard to offer too much more specific advice, but hopefully it'll at least be of some help.
 
If by "muffled" , you mean a lack of high freq. content and clarity ,and/or a general loss of volume, I'd check carefully for phasing problems.
 
gtrman_66 said:
If by "muffled" , you mean a lack of high freq. content and clarity ,and/or a general loss of volume, I'd check carefully for phasing problems.
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Or an over abundance of close miking that builds up too much collective body' on the tones.
wayne
 
Personally preamps are more of an issue for sound than microphones. I'd rather have a mediocre mic and a great preamp than the other way around. SM57's can sound great running thru a good preamp. Unfortunately, a U87 will not sound great running thru a medicore preamp.
 
I'm thinking kind of like Mr. Nice, but we don't even know what is being used to monitor or even the room the monitoring is being done in. Bad gear is bad gear, but if you have your ears on right to your monitoring you will know the limitations and compensate...or go buy better gear.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Personally preamps are more of an issue for sound than microphones. I'd rather have a mediocre mic and a great preamp than the other way around. SM57's can sound great running thru a good preamp. Unfortunately, a U87 will not sound great running thru a medicore preamp.
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...and I would say just the opposite, funny.
 
I would attribute the sound problem to the fact that you are recording everything together at the same time in a room.

Try going with a scratch take that has great feel and setting up a click track based on thea. Next work on getting the drums sounding the best they can (a ton of work alone) and record em. Go on to the bass and so on till you have a mix to work with.

It's technique and talent first, not gear.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Personally preamps are more of an issue for sound than microphones. I'd rather have a mediocre mic and a great preamp than the other way around. SM57's can sound great running thru a good preamp. Unfortunately, a U87 will not sound great running thru a medicore preamp.
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isn't the 57 a dynamic mic that doesn't use a preamp?
 
I believe phase issues are my main problem. I used 6 mics to record the drums and only 2 were not close. I did use compression and EQ to get the drums sounding pretty good actually. I would say that the drums turned out the most clear sounding for the most part. My next upgrade is going to be another sound card with more inputs, i just have to get the money together for it.

for the guitar, i ended up using 1 sm57 next to the cab, but i think i should have worked on the guitar player's tone before we started. I ended up duplicating the guitar tracks, panning them hard, and switching the phase on one of them. This did make the guitar more spread out and "in the mix" instead of right upfront in your face.
 
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