Mic buying advise for a tightwad

R

reddavid

New member
Hello all,

Having experimented for the first time at the weekend with recording guitar parts with multiple microphones, I'm totally hooked. It sounds amazing. I've been stuck in mono recording for far too many years. I'd like to move fully into stereo recording, only, problem is, my mics are crap. Here's the gear I have:


Shure SM57
Sennheiser E815s (a dynamic mic, last seen selling for about £20)
2x ART Tube MP fed into Emu 1212M PCI
Emu 0404 USB


Both the Emu 0404 and the Art Tube MPs support 48v phantom power, so I'd like to hawk the two dynamic mics on ebay, and replace them with about £120 worth of condenser microphones. I can spend more than that, but I'd prefer to limit my spending unless there's some overwhelmingly convincing reason to spend more.

I record acoustic guitars and vocals primarily. Electric guitar I handle with NI's Guitar Rig 3. Drums, I do with pure MIDI. My two main acoustic guitars, an old 12 string Epiphone and an old 6 string Spanish Seville, are both relatively quiet instruments. My voices also tends to be quiet for most of the time. As I prefer to record acoustic and vocal parts simultaneously, I guess a mic that can block out sound not coming directly toward it would be a help.

I've been looking around, and here's what I'm thinking of buying -

Vocal: M-Audio Nova (£55), AKG Perception 100 (£60), or Samson C03 (£48)

Guitar: Behriger C-2 matched pair (£46), Samson C02 matched pair (£65), 2x Samson C01 (£60), or 2x Samson C15 (£64)

I'm semi-tempted to plump for the Perception 100 and a pair of Samson C01s now, but I know I'd probably regret not consulting with yourselves first. So, what d'you guys reckon? And also, would it be madness to double the vocal recording by buying maybe the Perception 100 + a C01 and pointing them mouthwards?

Cheers
 
I'd recommend a Studio Projects B1 for a LD - it is better than any f the LD mics you have mentioned IMO and probably costs less too. It's a nice workhorse mic that you can use on voice and guitar (and many other things) and the build quality is way better than the price would suggest.

Another decent mic is the AT2020.
The MXL V63M can be pretty good but has a definite sound.

For a SD mic, if you can find a used Oktava MK012 I'd go with that. otherwise, an MXL-603 would probably be my choice.

Something else good to have for acoustic, and one Behringer product I would recommend, is the ECM8000 (very small diaphragm - omni).

So, overall, here's what I'd recoommend:
Studio Projects B1
MXL 603
Behringer ECM8000

Good luck
 
a different take

Hi,

First of all I'd probably keep the SM57. This is a good general purpose mic and great for some things.

If I were you I would learn to track your guitar parts and then sing over them. There's nothing wrong with singing while you play but by tracking them separately you can concentrate on each part and you can choose mics for each part.

For a tightwad nothing is better than dynamic omnis. Great sounding, indestructible, and cheap.

Another good inexpensive choice for your guitar would be the Naiant omni condensers.

Put a pop filter in front of the SM57 and it's a good vocal mic.

I also like these dynamic vocals mics. EV RE11 (or RE15 or RE16), AKG D770, Beyer M400. I did a show yesterday with four vocalists up front and I had these three mics and the SM57 all in a row. Pretty cool.

For singing into a condenser mic I really like the AT4054. It puts a nice sheen on the vocals and is pretty for acoustic guitars too.

If you want to sing and play at the same time here's a technique to try. Set up your mics for your best guitar sound with no vocal mic. Sing and play the part until you get the best guitar sound. The vocals will be light. Then double track your vocals singing exactly over your part into your favorite vocals mic. This takes some practice but it's easier than it sounds. Easier than singing harmony with another person by far. Then you end up with great guitar sound and double tracked vocals.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Cheers for the advice Madguitrst. The B1 is a little more than I'd planned to spend, although a quick scope around Harmony Central for reviews seems to make it worthwhile, so I'll be having that.

With the SD mics you recommended, I've had no luck. The Oktava seems painfully elusive on eBay (except for at full price, which is way out of budget), and the MXL-603 seems only to be available from what appears to be a fundamentalist Christian retailer based in the states, who I'd buy from, only I'd be stung badly for import duty and taxes on it. A real shame that, as Harmony Central totally confirmed your recommendation. The ECM8000 does look interesting, but my Sennheiser e815 is an omni mic, and it's kind-of put me off the format.

Thanks again for suggesting the B1, though. Certainly looks like the vocal mic to go for. Consider yourself rep'd :)


(Edit: Larry, I'll read your post properly after in a bit, need to run off to half-dead friend's house atm)
 
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Man, I agree with Harry Larry. Don't get rid of the SM57. I've got a bunch of mics and my SM57 still sees a lot of use. Pair it with the right preamp and it'll come alive.

Frank
 
If you're considering the naiants, I'm in the UK and bought direct from the website a while ago and didn't have to pay much more than normal postage. I think it worked out at about £50 for two mics all told.
 
id rather not start a new thread because i basically have the same question as OP...

need some budget mics for a pc based home recording studio. looking for bang for the buck here.

the genre is indie pop/rock, will be recording vocals, acoustic guitar, and electric guitar (small solid state combo).

looks like the shure sm57 is a consensus starting point. seems i recall from past experience i never liked the way my voice sounded with that mic. i actually used a sm58 beta mic a lot and really like the way it sounded, even though it's designed for live vocals.

anyway, whats a good affordable mic for my guitar tracks (im guessing condenser?) or a good vocal mic?

apologies in advance if i should have started my own thread but i see so many threads just like this one in the forum already... thanks all
 
Again...big fan of the SM7b for all of those duties. It's about $350 new, probably $250 if you can get one used.

Frank
 
hairylarry said:
Hi,

First of all I'd probably keep the SM57. This is a good general purpose mic and great for some things.

If I were you I would learn to track your guitar parts and then sing over them. There's nothing wrong with singing while you play but by tracking them separately you can concentrate on each part and you can choose mics for each part.
Click to expand...

Ey, fair enough - SM57 will be kept. I guess, it is a fine mic. I've had some cracking vocal recordings out of it in the past, and, I suppose, it's only worth a few hours overtime anyway. I give in to persuasion far too easily :)

Regarding the multitracking thing, it is something I do, but usually only when I try to play what I'd call a 'studio' recording. That's to say, I'll lay down each part of the song part by part, vocals only when I get the house to myself. I don't mind recording like this, and I think it does produce better music in theory, but only in theory. Me, I was brought up listening to Noel Gallagher and Neil Young's solo acoustic spots, and for me, performance is 90% of a recording. Quality of the sound is good, but I just can't perform as well when I'm singing or playing to a script. I'm a loose kind of player, and I need my freedom. I can't get that with tracking.


For a tightwad nothing is better than dynamic omnis. Great sounding, indestructible, and cheap.

Another good inexpensive choice for your guitar would be the Naiant omni condensers.

Put a pop filter in front of the SM57 and it's a good vocal mic.

I also like these dynamic vocals mics. EV RE11 (or RE15 or RE16), AKG D770, Beyer M400. I did a show yesterday with four vocalists up front and I had these three mics and the SM57 all in a row. Pretty cool.

For singing into a condenser mic I really like the AT4054. It puts a nice sheen on the vocals and is pretty for acoustic guitars too.
Click to expand...

I've been reading a fair bit about these Naiant mics. I'm semi-put off them after a pretty damning review on Harmony Central (it gave them 3/10, and remarked that they were basically just the result of a DIY condenser mic guide), but then, I've seen a lot of praise for them on these here boards. I can't tell whether this is because the guy who makes them is a member here or whether they genuinely are extremely good. I don't suppose there are any sound samples kicking around, are there?


If you want to sing and play at the same time here's a technique to try. Set up your mics for your best guitar sound with no vocal mic. Sing and play the part until you get the best guitar sound. The vocals will be light. Then double track your vocals singing exactly over your part into your favorite vocals mic. This takes some practice but it's easier than it sounds. Easier than singing harmony with another person by far. Then you end up with great guitar sound and double tracked vocals.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
Click to expand...

That sounds superb - going to have to try that one in the morning. Rep for you, sir! :)
 
reddavid said:
I've been reading a fair bit about these Naiant mics. I'm semi-put off them after a pretty damning review on Harmony Central (it gave them 3/10, and remarked that they were basically just the result of a DIY condenser mic guide), but then, I've seen a lot of praise for them on these here boards. I can't tell whether this is because the guy who makes them is a member here or whether they genuinely are extremely good. I don't suppose there are any sound samples kicking around, are there?
Click to expand...

IMHO, you won't find a better mic anywhere close to the price. The person who disliked them on HC was probably talking about the original MSH-1, which IIRC was pretty close to the Tape Op design but with phantom power. It was an okay mic, but I think some folks said it was a bit on the noisy side. They've gotten steadily better since then.
 
Thanks for the advise everybody. I've put an order down for a Studio Projects B1, and I've put an ebay order down, although not yet paid for, a couple of 603 / 603S microphones. Rep all round. Cheers all.
 
msh-1

dgatwood said:
IMHO, you won't find a better mic anywhere close to the price. The person who disliked them on HC was probably talking about the original MSH-1, which IIRC was pretty close to the Tape Op design but with phantom power. It was an okay mic, but I think some folks said it was a bit on the noisy side. They've gotten steadily better since then.
Click to expand...

Hi,

All the original buzz on this board was about the msh-1. It does use the same panasonic cartridge as the tapeop diy mic but considerably enhanced circuitry. I don't doubt that the new versions are better but there is nothing wrong with the msh-1.

There are many clips available on the msh-1 and later naiant mics. The one I remember best was a classical piece recorded by Tim Lawler, a member of the bbs.

Does anyone have a link?

I use a matched pair of msh-1 on a Jecklin Disc for video production. I don't find mine to be noisy at all. I like the setup so much that I recorded a whole album with them.

http://www.archive.org/details/Hairy_Larry.The_Gift

Not only my first Christmas album but my first Classical album as well. Please give it a listen to hear just how clean a sound these mics can give. I do think that the clip mentioned above is an even better example of what the Naiant mics can do.

mshilarious is a long time member of this board and is always extremely helpful. I see now he is also an advertiser. I will guarantee you that this has absolutely nothing to do with the reviews and clips found on this board. This is a contentious group and they are as likely to get in a manufacturer's face as praise him.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Tim's clip

Hi,

Here's the link to Tim Lawler's classical recorded through two Naiant msh1 mics.



Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Cheers all

Awesome stuff - the B1 arrived yesterday morning, and the 603s arrived today. Woot \m/

I'm really impressed. The fidelity is superb and, jesus, do I see what you guys mean about sensitivity now! It's really quite unsettling to hear my bodily functions during pauses in playing. I could probably capture the old lady across the street's as well if I turned the gain a few steps higher. Amazing stuff. And I've not tried performing any vocals yet, but the guitar sounds fantastic. Epic step upwards from before.

And so, I really owe you all my gratitude. It's been a frustration of mine for a long time that some people are too impatient to seek advice before satisfying their impulsive desires. As someone who works in the IT field, I see this happening painfully often. So many clients buying really low quality laptops at extortionate prices from highstreet retailers, because they just don't spend the time in shopping around and researching. I'm an incredibly impatient person when it comes to making purchases too, so it felt extremely alien for me to write a thread like this. I knew from my own experiences that it was the smart thing to do though, and having taken delivery of these mics today, I really am glad I asked you guys.

Antichef, GuitarZero, Larry, Weasle, Drossfire, dgatwood, Mad Guitarist, stopstartstall, and anyone I've missed by accident - thank you all very much.
 
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