Masterlink vs. Rack full of Gear

[Chris F]

I've recently come across a windfall of sorts and will have some money to spend on some new gear for my project studio. I've read some good things and bad things about the Alesis Masterlink here on the board, and I'm wondering about a couple of things:

1) The Masterlink seems to have a $#!tload of editing capabilities and built in effects that you can use to process your signal on the way to burning it onto CD. That's great, except that whenever the subject of Alesis outboard effects comes up, there always seem to be a goodly number of slams mixed in with the commentary. Aren't the effects (compression, EQ, etc) in the masterlink the same ones that are routinely getting ripped when they get marketed as single outboard units? If so, then how come I've seen several people praise the masterlink to high heaven and then turn around and completely RIP the outboard effects like compression and EQ from the same company?

2) What would be the advantages of buying a Masterlink versus a nice CD burner and some decent effects (for example, an HHB Burnit, a couple of RNC's, and a nice reverb unit)? Or put another way, how much seperate outboard stuff would I have to get to match all the capabilities of the Masterlink?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions later, but these are the big ones. Any and all replies appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris Fitzgerald

 

[skippy]

The signal processing in the Masterlink is all in the digital domain: it's all done in firmware. Their old analog hardware effects are not up to modern standards, it's true: but the DSP in the Masterlink is a wholly new design for that product, and works very well.

The Masterlink doesn't have a reverb: its DSP capabilities include EQ, compression, normalization: the sorts of stuff you's do in Wavelab or some DAW-based mastering program. It's basically a very good 2-track midaown deck with some added processing power and the ability to render CDs.

How much outboard stuff would you need to get? Well, that depends. You could do everything it does with a software package on a DAW. What it really offers is reliability and convenience: you pull it out of the box, plug it in, and use it. You don't need to build a rack of gear, or spend hours trying to get a DAW to run reliably.

Try one. There's no way to properly draw a value judgement on this machine for you, because your values will differ from mine. You just need to try one and see if it works for your working style.

Speaking strictly for me: I have two of them, and they are _very_ heavily used. I still haven't bothered to learn Wavelab, the software that can do the same thing...

I had a jazz quintet through here just after Christmas. We tracked 5 tunes live-to-8, mixed down to the Masterlink, burned a CDR for them, and sent them on their way- all in 6 hours. it would be damnably hard to do that with software, I would think, although there are probably people here who could... For me, the hardware solution that works first-time-every-time has been very valuable.

 

[Dolemite]

I'm sure, as skippy says, everything the Masterink does can be done on a DAW. I'd also guess that most any mastering software package would give you much more control than the Masterlink.

As far as the CD-burning capabilities, I again can't think of anything the Masterlink or HHB Burn-it can do that a $50 CD-RW drive can't.

I can think of better ways to spend $900.

 

[signpainter]

recently I was investigating the masterlink and other possabilities for home mastering......the masterlink seems to be highly regarded by people "in the know".....but, ultimately, I chose the iZotope Ozone dx plugin. They have an excellant mastering manual (actually explains the concepts of using the different piecxes of their Ozone suite) and I found the plugin very easy to use. Of course, I don't have anything near golden ears, so YMMV, I would say, grab their demo and see what you think......grab a masterlink from someplace that has a return policy and see what you think.
V.

 

[Sonic Misfit]

I agree with Skippy that the Masterlink is a great tool. I also have two of them and they do what they are intended to do. I also have a high-end PC with WaveLab and have done comparisons. Overall, they are equivalent, however WaveLab offers the ability to make MP3s, which is not part of the Masterlink software.

Also, the DSP on the MasterLink is global. You will still need a lot of gear if you want to perform compression on, say a kick drum. Overall, I am extremely happy with the Masterlinks and they are a good deal at $900, but there are times when the WaveLab solution is the best option.

The place where the Masterlink excels over WaveLab is in the CD burning. Many times I get the sound I want from WaveLab and then burn a CD. The CD sounds subtly different due to the fact that you are still dealing with the computer's operating system and whatever drivers that Windows is running at the time. On the Masterlink, what you hear is what you get. If you get a good sound on the mix, then the CD will sound like the mix.

When this originally happened, I thought that it was the specific PC being a problem, but I tried it on another workstation with the same results.

Overall, the Masterlink is very easy to use, especially the EQ section, when compared to software that I have tried. The compression section is easy to use, but IMHO, tends to be a "hard" knee even when set to soft, you don't have the same flexibility with the adjustments that you have in WaveLab (but it is a heck of a lot better than a nanocompressor

 

[harley96]

As far as the CD-burning capabilities, I again can't think of anything the Masterlink or HHB Burn-it can do that a $50 CD-RW drive can't. I've got one:CDR24

Well, I know that there are several plug ins and software programs that essentially do the same thing as the masterlink, but I'm not a huge fan of software based recording.I happened to browse the tradin times in my area and found one brand new for $650.00.I picked it up that day.I know the masterlink burns red book and a new format called CDR24 obviously 24bit versus 16bit.The only drawback is at this time you can only play the 24 bit cd's in the masterlink considering that format is not widely available on all cd players.I assume you could take a cd mastered at CDR24 on the masterlink to a mastering house to have it mass duplicated as they probably are CDR24 compliant but that's only a guess.Personally,I love my masterlink and for $650.00 I feel it's worth every penny.It really depends on what formats your comfortable working with.Is it better than software based processing and a $50.00 cd burner?That question you've got to answer for yourself.

 

[Chris F]

[BI love my masterlink and for $650.00 I feel it's worth every penny.It really depends on what formats your comfortable working with.Is it better than software based processing and a $50.00 cd burner?That question you've got to answer for yourself. [/B]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Personally, I don't know if a software-based system is in the picture for me for two reasons:

1) I'll have about $4000 max to spend, and that would have to include the computer, software, and external hardware under that price tag, and I don't really see that happening;

2) This setup (whatever I end up getting) needs to reside in my music room, and it needs to be EXTREMELY easy to use on the recording end of things...as close to "punch & Play" ready as possible. Many of the recordings I end up making come out of two and three-hour jazz duo or trio sessions where we just record everything we play and sort out the winners later.


What can the Masterlink do that a good standalone AW (like the Yamaha AW 2816) can't? And if software-based recording is out of the question, does anyone have any other suggestions for a setup in this price range? I already have mics, an OK 2 channel pre, and a reverb unit I can live with (although I don't have to). What would you get on this type of budget for a fast to set up and easy to use system meant to record all acoustic instruments?

Thanks again.

Chris

 

[harley96]

Chris

If your intentions are to get an all in one workstation than the masterlink is not the answer.It's basically a 2 track hard disc recorder with dynamic processing and a cd burner.It's known as a mastering deck but I never use it for that purpose.Like Blue Bear has said in the past:At home mastering is really not mastering,you've got to have the right acoustics, equipment,knowledge,experience,and of course those golden ears!! I consider my ears to be useful but not accurate enough for mastering.That I truly leave for professional mastering engineers.As far as workstations Yamaha makes a couple nice units and Roland has there new 2480 out but I think it compresses the audio onto hard disc,but I'm not sure.Good Luck.....P.S Remember to leave a little extra cash for good monitors,power amp,etc.

 

[Dolemite]

As far as the CD-burning capabilities, I again can't think of anything the Masterlink or HHB Burn-it can do that a $50 CD-RW drive can't. I've got one:CDR24

The same thing can be done with CD burning software. Its just as easy to burn 24-bit files as any other format.

1) I'll have about $4000 max to spend, and that would have to include the computer, software, and external hardware under that price tag, and I don't really see that happening;

That could be done quiet easily. In fact, I'd be happy with a budget of $1500.

2) This setup (whatever I end up getting) needs to reside in my music room, and it needs to be EXTREMELY easy to use on the recording end of things...as close to "punch & Play" ready as possible. Many of the recordings I end up making come out of two and three-hour jazz duo or trio sessions where we just record everything we play and sort out the winners later.


What can the Masterlink do that a good standalone AW (like the Yamaha AW 2816) can't? And if software-based recording is out of the question, does anyone have any other suggestions for a setup in this price range? I already have mics, an OK 2 channel pre, and a reverb unit I can live with (although I don't have to). What would you get on this type of budget for a fast to set up and easy to use system meant to record all acoustic instruments?

If you want a standalone system, then neither a Masterlink or a computer is what you're after.


BTW, I can imagine the utility of having a Masterlink, but WTF are you guys doing with TWO of them? I hope you're Alesis shareholders or something...

 

[Chris F]

Re: Chris

If your intentions are to get an all in one workstation than the masterlink is not the answer.It's basically a 2 track hard disc recorder with dynamic processing and a cd burner.It's known as a mastering deck but I never use it for that purpose.Like Blue Bear has said in the past:At home mastering is really not mastering,you've got to have the right acoustics, equipment,knowledge,experience,and of course those golden ears!!

Good Luck.....P.S Remember to leave a little extra cash for good monitors,power amp,etc.

Harley,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not exactly looking to "master" at home...anything I record that is intended for release will get sent to a mastering house. Having said that, I do make a lot of demos and recordings to spread around for various purposes, and I'd like to get to the point where I could do two things better:

1) I'd like to be able to make CD's that are mastering house ready, so that all I have to do is send them off, and

2) I'd like to be able to make CD's at home that have greater volume and presence than the ones I've been making so far.


On the budget I mentioned above, I'm looking to move up from a Yamaha MD4s, which is a machine that I've been extremely happy with because it is so user-friendly and idiot proof. My biggest problems in getting "THE SOUND" so far have come in the mixing stage, so that's definitely something I need to address. Given the budget I mentioned, how much of that should be geared toward a decent set of monitors and power amp? I'm not in a big hurry, but the money is there when I finally figure out what will best suit my purposes. I don't need to overdub at all, but I'd like to have 8 tracks so that I could record quartet with a stereo mix on the drums.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[harley96]

The same thing can be done with CD burning software. Its just as easy to burn 24-bit files as any other format.

True, but if your cd burner doesn't have the ability to playback a 24 bit cd which I'm pretty sure most of them are 16 bit than what's the use of burning 24 bits.I'm not trying to argue with you considering it's really no big deal,all I was trying to do is make light of the fact that with the masterlink you can burn cdr24 and playback cdr24 so when this becomes more of a standard, hey you've got that option already covered.Why go out and spend $200.00 for a 16 bit cd burner just to replace it with another burner that plays cdr24 in a couple of years.

 

[Dolemite]

True, but if your cd burner doesn't have the ability to playback a 24 bit cd which I'm pretty sure most of them are 16 bit than what's the use of burning 24 bits.I'm not trying to argue with you considering it's really no big deal,all I was trying to do is make light of the fact that with the masterlink you can burn cdr24 and playback cdr24 so when this becomes more of a standard, hey you've got that option already covered.Why go out and spend $200.00 for a 16 bit cd burner just to replace it with another burner that plays cdr24 in a couple of years.

I think you're confused about formats.

You never want "play back" something that's intended for mastering ala redbook audio. You want it to be in a file format so it gets copied perfectly. As I understand it, CD24 is simply a 24-bit 96 KHz AIFF file format, which any CD-ROM drive can read, any reasonable audio software can play back perfectly, and any CD-burner can burn like any other file. I'm sure any mastering studio that has a Masterlink also has a computer. There's no point in making this format proprietary, since that would limit you to using a Masterlink.

 

[Sonic Misfit]

Dolemite: I don't know about Skippy, but the reason I have two Masterlinks is that I have two studios.

harley96: The CD24 format is a standard AIFF that is essentially a WAV file. You can load it into any standard software. I load it into WaveLab to create MP3 files and to create CDs from multiple sources.

Chris: harley96 is right on, the MasterLink is a mixdown deck with built-in DSP. It is not a multitracker that you can run for several hours and then clip out the parts you want.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Chris F]

Chris: harley96 is right on, the MasterLink is a mixdown deck with built-in DSP. It is not a multitracker that you can run for several hours and then clip out the parts you want.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks. I knew that the Masterlink wasn't a multitracker....I just wasn't sure what all it really did. I'm still not sure, but I'm getting closer.

So, to recap:

1) The Masterlink's built in effects are NOT the same ones that Alesis sells in rack units, which everybody seems to hate;

2) The ML can burn CD's in different formats, one of which is a format which you can send directly to a mastering house (I wonder if the Yamaha standalone can do this?), and I'm assuming that it can also make a regular format CD that you can play on any system;

3) A decent computer based system CAN be purchased for the above amount, but would be too fussy and complicated to use as a "start the machine and play for two or three hours" kind of setup;

4) Based on most of the replies, it sounds like what I need is a standalone and some "accessories". I still have no idea how much to set aside for monitors & power amp for same, but I'll do some research unless anyone has any suggestions, which would be most welcome.


Standalone recommendations, or links to reviews of any of the gear mentioned in this thread? Like I said, the money is standing by, but I want to make sure to research the subject well because I've probably got to live with whatever I get for the next 10 years or so.

Thanks again.

 

[skippy]

I have two because one is my mixdown deck in the studio, and the other is in my road rack for doing live-to-2-track location recording of acoustic music. I don't want to have to rip the studio apart for live work. The Masterlink is _ideal_ for that work: there have been many occasions where I've recorded a show, and presented the artist with a finised CDR, split into tracks, normalized, and rendered to CD: *before the crowd had all left the room* at the end of the show.

I know how much it it would cost me to waste time trying to get software solutions to work reliably enough to believe in them as live, one-time-only recording devices. I know what my time costs, and to me the reliable, works-out-of-the-box hardware solution is actually a _bargain_. But that's only important to me- your mileage will almost certainly vary. Some folks here will put a hundred hours into their software setups to save fifty bucks. Not for me: my time costs me a lot more than 50 cents an hour...

My pair of Masterlinks make money for me, and that's pretty impressive, given that I'd sworn off ever trying to make money with music again...

 

[Dolemite]

The Masterlink is _ideal_ for that work: there have been many occasions where I've recorded a show, and presented the artist with a finised CDR, split into tracks, normalized, and rendered to CD: *before the crowd had all left the room* at the end of the show.

Now that's cool.

 

[harley96]

I think you're confused about formats.

You never want "play back" something that's intended for mastering ala redbook audio. You want it to be in a file format so it gets copied perfectly. As I understand it, CD24 is simply a 24-bit 96 KHz AIFF file format, which any CD-ROM drive can read, any reasonable audio software can play back perfectly, and any CD-burner can burn like any other file. I'm sure any mastering studio that has a Masterlink also has a computer. There's no point in making this format proprietary, since that would limit you to using a Masterlink.

Dolemite, thanks for the clarification.One question,If I burn at 24bit 96khz and play it back in a regular cdr or cd rom will I lose any resolution?

 

[Dolemite]

Nope, you shouldn't lose any resolution. The key thing to remember is to not think in terms of "playing it back." You always want to burn things as files until the very final step and when you burn files, you can't play the disc back on a CD player. Luckily, AFAIK, the only way to burn at 24-bit at any sampling rate is as a file. When you go down to 16-bit, you can either do files or redbook. Redbook has the disadvantage of imperfect reads that go through on-the-fly error correction and that sort of thing, which is never good. But when you burn a file, you get that same file back, an exact 1:1 copy.

So only when you either want to see how things sound on your CD players converters/home stereo or when you're down to the very final mix should you go down to Redbook and obviously you should keep what you're working with on the computer at 24-bit.

Of course when you're sending something off to be mastered, you should definitely stick with files, and definitely not do SRC or bit-rate conversion.

 

[harley96]

Thanks, Dolemite for your insight...Take care...

 

[Chris F]

Nope, you shouldn't lose any resolution. The key thing to remember is to not think in terms of "playing it back." You always want to burn things as files until the very final step and when you burn files, you can't play the disc back on a CD player. Luckily, AFAIK, the only way to burn at 24-bit at any sampling rate is as a file. When you go down to 16-bit, you can either do files or redbook. Redbook has the disadvantage of imperfect reads that go through on-the-fly error correction and that sort of thing, which is never good. But when you burn a file, you get that same file back, an exact 1:1 copy.

Since the Yamaha unit I'm considering is basically a standalone computer based system, maybe the same will be true for it, so let me see if I've got this straight:

When you burn a CD file copy of something you're working on, it goes to 24-bit on a format that is only readable as a file, right? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm a newbie in the computer recording world....so the reason you make this kind of a copy as a backup is so you can then wipe your hard disc clean to make room for other stuff, and then reload the info on the file disc you burned when you need to add to it or edit it. Do I have this much right?

I'm guessing that he Yamaha probably works the same way...assuming that I was right about the info in the above paragraph, can anybody confirm or deny this about the Yamaha?

Man, I'm in over my head, but this thread is teaching me a lot. Keep it coming!