Masterlink vs. Rack full of Gear

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by Rudy Ray Moore

I have to admit my ignorance about how those standalone units work...but if they're burning 24-bit, its gotta be as a file, which is what you want.

BTW, which Yamaha are you looking at? LMK and I'll see if I can go over the specs.

 

[Chris F]

Man, move over and let me pass, fo' they hafta be pullin' this soundcard outcho mutha****** @$$!


I have to admit my ignorance about how those standalone units work...but if they're burning 24-bit, its gotta be as a file, which is what you want.

BTW, which Yamaha are you looking at? LMK and I'll see if I can go over the specs.

Specifically, I'm looking at the AW2816 as a step up from the MD4s, which is what I've been using...but I'm open to other suggestions as well. And remember, I'm a cyber-dummy, so links to related information are fine if you don't have time to explain something....I'm just not that good at internet searching yet.

Thanks.

 

[Dolemite]

Well, I'm a standalone DAW dummy...but that AW2816 looks very nice. I found some reviews for ya:

Pro Audio Review

HomeRecording Magazine

BTW, I was glad to read this in the first review:

"A very pleasant surprise was the quality of the AW2816’s mic preamps, which sounded better to me than those on the Yamaha AW4416, 01V and 02R mixers. Put another way, the AW2816 will not be the weak link in your signal chain."

I knew the 01V and 02R had rather shoddy preamps, so that's good news. As far as the CD-RW, it seems you should be able to back up all your data in 24-bit pretty easily. This thing also has a SCSI port, so you should be able to copy data directly to your computer with a SCSI interface installed. 20 GB is a lot of storage, though:

"With the standard 20 GB hard drive installed, the AW2816 will give you 230 minutes of 16-track recording at 16 bits, and 150 at 24 bits. Figuring the recording “density” of a four-minute song at about 75 percent, this gives you room for roughly 50 songs (24- bit resolution)."

Anyway, it looks like a nice unit. If I was in your position, I would probably get a nice frontend for a computer, like a Delta 1010 and some nice preamps, but I understand the desire to spend more time recording and less time dicking around with software.

I guess I just like to dick around (so I've been told ).

 

[Mark H.]

I have NO experience with the Masterlink, so my comments are limited to noting the interesting differences among people who have expressed satisfaction or disappointment with it.

1.) Almost every reviewer I've read who has been happy with the Masterlink is an audio professional who owns more than one Masterlink. In the first review of the Masterlink I read, one pro commented that at such a low price ($1200 each at the time), he planned to pick up several more.

2.) Most users I've read who had negative comments about the Masterlink thought $1200 was a lot of money and expected the Masterlink to be an all-in-one recording and pressing box that would meet all their recording needs.

Skippy is the first professional user I've read who has reported using it for 2-track live recording and on-the-spot mastering. Question to Skippy: do you trust it enough to be the ONLY recording device you take to a gig? Or is the Masterlink part of a "package" of recording redundancy for you?

In the studio, is it fair to say that most users are capturing the sound elsewhere, mixing it down to two tracks for the Masterlink, and using the Masterlink to touch up the final product before transfering it to CD?

Also, just to clarify the answer to an earlier question, the Masterlink is not a 24-bit CD player that is ready to play back future 24-bit consumer audio formats. As far as I know, it has the ability to play 24 bit CDs that it has mastered back onto its own internal hard drive, which can then be monitored.

I want to thank Chris for this thread, and Dolemite and Skippy (and others) for their thoughtful responses.

Much of the recording-end equipment on the market is confusing to me. What can a $4,000 proprietary hard-drive recorder do that a generic $2500 computer cannot? What is the difference between a $159 24/96 sound card and a $1K (or $6K) outboard A/D converter (and what does the latter hook up to)? Why would someone spend a thousand dollars or more on an external clock?

You can buy a 20 Gig outboard palm-sized hard drive for storing photos and data for less than $500 -- why couldn't something like that be used as an audio recorder?

It is both wonderful and frightening to see pro audio (and photography, for that matter) linked to computers and their peripherals. In the past, quality sound recording equipment has retained its value and in some cases even risen in value over time (as has much of the medium format camera equipment). Now, anything connected to computers loses its value at the same rate as the technology to which it is attached.

Anything "less than" 24/96 is considered with suspicion today, even (or especially) by newcomers who can hang onto such benchmarks with greater self-assurance than the differences in sound quality that are acquired only through experience. We know that in 3 years or less, however, 24/96 will have been replaced with something "better." What of our thousands of dollars worth of equipment then?

Of course, the Masterlink isn't 24/96, it's 24/48, if I recall correctly. And it's been out what, perhaps 15 months or so?

What will last? What is a good investment in sound recording today? Once past the microphones, preamps, mixers and outboard effects units (many of which are also increasingly DSP-based), what can one buy today to make quality recordings that won't embarrass us in another 5 or 10 years? Where is the price/value point in digital recording for the home enthusiast, and what does it look like?

I truly appreciate those more experienced sharing their insights and abilities with those of us who are less experienced. I welcome your comments.

With kind regards,

Mark H.

 

[skippy]

Yes, I do trust it. However, it is not the only device I take to a paying gig: I also have a Sony MDS-E10 minidisc recorder in the rack, and I also record to it as a safety. I've never had occasion to fall back to it, though. It's just a paranoia reducer for me.

I have a show coming up in May where I need to use the Sony to play entry music and SFX during the show. I'll set up my wife's little portable minidisc recorder for the safety for that show. Old habits die hard: I always try to have redundancy, when money is changing hands.

The Masterlink is far from the end-all recorder. It's just a stone reliable digital 2-track. I use it to record 24/44.1 and then render to CDs, and I don't think I'm likely to do much else with it- but I use it for that every time I do a project, and it's always ready to go for me.

What the expensive dedicated hardware does that the cheap software solution can't, is to work first time, every time, with minimal hassles. I use a dedicated hardware multitrack, the Fostex D1624. The *day it was delivered*, I was tracking with it. When I bought my DAW, it took me 4 months to get it to work halfway reliably, thanks to various driver problems and Cubase bugs- and I'm not exactly computer-illiterate. Meanwhile, I got lots of real work done on the Fostex. Your mileage may vary.

The software solutions are excellent, *if* you have the patience and the time to invest. Many people here are very happy with DAW-only solutions, and do spectacular work: and more power to them! Part of me is a bit envious. But speaking strictly for myself, as a dinosaur: if I'd tried to go software-only, I wouldn't have lasted 2 months getting back into this. I'd be playing golf instead. As a person who stares at computers all day for a living, I want to _record_, and make music: not try to figure out what part of Windows has a conflict and is giving me my umpteenth Blue Screen Of Death.

I'm not trying to slag off the you-can-do-it-all-with-software crowd: you most certainly _can_. I just am not in that camp, and the hardware solutions are more appropriate for me. As I said, your mileage may vary...

 

[Chris F]

I want to thank Chris for this thread, and Dolemite and Skippy (and others) for their thoughtful responses.

And I'd like to second that - except for the thanks to me, since I'm the one getting free information here. I'm learning a hell of a lot through this thread. It's especially nice since I've started a few around here that get universally ignored (probably because I was the 4,456th person to ask that question)...but then a few of the threads end up morphing into monsters that will take me years to digest - like Harvey's monumental mic thread opus. This site is way cool.

Much of the recording-end equipment on the market is confusing to me. What can a $4,000 proprietary hard-drive recorder do that a generic $2500 computer cannot? What is the difference between a $159 24/96 sound card and a $1K (or $6K) outboard A/D converter (and what does the latter hook up to)? Why would someone spend a thousand dollars or more on an external clock?

You can buy a 20 Gig outboard palm-sized hard drive for storing photos and data for less than $500 -- why couldn't something like that be used as an audio recorder?

Well, that was my question. the answer seems to be what I suspected - that the software based stuff is much more unreliable (at first, anyway), harder to use, and not as user-friendly as the stand alone stuff. I really value the "ease of use" factor...since I'm a professional musician who dabbles in recording, I really would rather spend the time practicing to improve the quality of my playing than fussing with a computer to get the perfect sound from a recording.

Since I've been getting started with this homerec stuff, I've been watching the engineers at the studios where I get hired to record, and I've come to the conclusion that learning how to engineer and produce records is every bit as much a subtle and lifelong pursuit as learning how to play an instrument is. I realize that I'll never be as good or as natural with it as some I've seen because I devote my time to practicing the double bass, but I can still appreciate the art of someone who is really, really good at recording, and maybe I can learn a thing or two from hanging around them and picking their brains as well. Hell, it's worked so far in this thread so far...

I truly appreciate those more experienced sharing their insights and abilities with those of us who are less experienced. I welcome your comments.

Ditto.

Although I must admit I'm still waiting for someone to start flaming me for considering buying a unit that was made overseas.

 

[Chris F]

Well, I'm a standalone DAW dummy...but that AW2816 looks very nice. I found some reviews for ya:

Pro Audio Review

www.homerecordingmag.com/reviews/review1.html]HomeRecording Magazine[/URL]

BTW, I was glad to read this in the first review:

"A very pleasant surprise was the quality of the AW2816’s mic preamps, which sounded better to me than those on the Yamaha AW4416, 01V and 02R mixers. Put another way, the AW2816 will not be the weak link in your signal chain."

I knew the 01V and 02R had rather shoddy preamps, so that's good news. As far as the CD-RW, it seems you should be able to back up all your data in 24-bit pretty easily. This thing also has a SCSI port, so you should be able to copy data directly to your computer with a SCSI interface installed. 20 GB is a lot of storage, though:

"With the standard 20 GB hard drive installed, the AW2816 will give you 230 minutes of 16-track recording at 16 bits, and 150 at 24 bits. Figuring the recording “density” of a four-minute song at about 75 percent, this gives you room for roughly 50 songs (24- bit resolution)."

Anyway, it looks like a nice unit. If I was in your position, I would probably get a nice frontend for a computer, like a Delta 1010 and some nice preamps, but I understand the desire to spend more time recording and less time dicking around with software.

I guess I just like to dick around (so I've been told ).

Thanks for the links, that was just what the doctor ordered. Can you tell from what you read whether you can back up your songs on CD, clean the hard drive, and then reload the info back in from the CD you burned? I'm assuming that you can, but I don't like to make assumptions when I'm talking about $2000.

Also, if the effects on this unit are as good as the reviews make out, I might not need much in the way of external stuff, which would enable me to blow some of the rest of the budget on other fun stuff like some more mics. Wow, this is gonna be fun!

 

[Mark H.]

Skippy,

Thank you for your clarity, which just saved me hundreds of dollars (at least) and months of grief. Like you, I sit all day in front of one of these, and the last thing I want to do for personal enjoyment and fulfillment is spend the few precious hours each week I call my own dealing with computer problems and software incompatibilities at home.

I think I've been groping about in the dark expecting someone here to tell me, "Gee, you buy THIS sound card and THAT piece of software, and 30 minutes later almost any ol' computer is going to give you maintenance-free recording and sound quality equal to a high-end 2-inch analog multi-track recorder."

I'm really glad to hear that your experience with the Masterlink has been rock-solid, and I understand your argument for dedicated gear.

Sometime down the line, would you be willing to look at a list of my humble gear and give me a short list of what YOU would buy next? I'm still filling in basics at this point to meet specific recording, duplicating and playback needs. But sometimes I find myself lying awake agonizing over confusing choices. At some point it would be useful for someone with more experience to say "don't buy one of those until you have a better this-and-that."

Again, my sincere thanks for your guidance and for sharing your thoughts on the Alesis Masterlink and its place in the larger scheme of recording.

Mark H.