Mastering Monitors

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jgourd

jgourd

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I just finished reading "The Mastering Engineer's Handbook". I walked away from it thinking that mastering is an art that takes years of practice and lots very expensive gear.

One guy interviewed for the book has $90,000 speakers in a near perfect room that is something like 40'x40' by 17'high. The overall impression I get from the pros is that mix monitors should never be used to master and the room should be more like a home theater than a studio control room.

So, with that in mind, what speakers that are under $3000 a pair should I put in my home theater / mastering room?
 
I'm not a mastering engineer myself but I visit quite a few frequently and spend time there aside the mastering engineer.

They pride themselfs on owning the top notch gear available and extremly well fine tuned rooms but the monitors arent the prime factor. I find many of them using a combination of monitors but a lot of the brands arent more expensive then $5000 monitors.
I see a lot of $3000 monitors and less.
$90,000 for speakers......he must be extremly wealthy or in need of a brain....

What they do spend a lot of money is on acoustics, converters,
5.1 mixing suites, expensive outboard gear like top notch compressors and Eq's and Software alike saide and PT.
 
You might find Westlakes and Genelecs to be popular in mastering studios. They're not inexpensive, and could quite easily surpass your $3000 mark, but with some looking, you may get lucky.

$90,000 does sound extremely high for speakers alone, but not when put in a grand total with room design and a kick-butt pair of custom designed speakers....and $90 grand could then easily fall quite short.

I think the general consensus around here is that most everyone here is a peon, and to even consider becoming a mastering engineer of sorts, is kinda a joke. Your ears are basically considered your prize investment, and the average Joe apparently doesn't have the talant, know-how,or ability to train them. Rather than buying the 'in vogue' tools, (which of course are much more than Mr. Joe can afford) your efforts might be better spent on 'purchasing' experiences at this stage of the game, rather than hoping for pro results with your wallet.

As a suggestion, you might visit some current facilties and see what they've got going for them, to help you in your equipment purchases. It also might influence your decisions on whether your "home theater" will be sonically suitable or not too.
 
I agree with Shailat. There are some pretty good speakers in the $3000 range. Try a pair of Dunlavy Cantatas for not much more than $3K, and you can get a Bryston amp new for about $1200 and you would be about where a majority of the Mastering Houses are. The $90,000 speakers are mostly one off custom jobs where the price verses the sound really aren't worth it to most businesses. But the big money does need to go into the best converters you can find. I believe later this year Lynn Fuston is releasing a ADC shootout CD for $45 buck, he did a mic and pre amp shootout already that makes me weep.


GoHere: http://sales.3daudioinc.com/store/catalog.lasso Look twds the btm.

SoMm
 
I remember now seeing Monitors around $90,000 but that was in a state of the art suite that was built for Cinema 5.1 mixing/mastering.
I can see the logic behind such an investment as the budget for a movie sound track is way beyond a typical commercial CD.
Also there are very few movie mastering places and many of them specialize in that field. The one I saw look more like a movie theater then a typical mastering studio.
 
$90,000 Speaker

The guy with the $90K speakers is Glenn Meadows.


"My mastering room has an in-wall Kinoshita monitoring system. It's about an 80 or 90 thousand dollar speaker system when you include the amplification."
Click to expand...
 
Re: $90,000 Speaker

jgourd said:
The guy with the $90K speakers is Glenn Meadows.
Click to expand...

He is a well known name.
I just hope he spins out $90,000 worth of mastering.

He must have married a rich woman
 
Mastering....

Always a fun topic around here ;)

My opinion (based on a few past "exercises" here) is this:

JGourd do not take this personally, it is not directed at you individually....

Most HR forum members (YMMV) shouldn't even bother trying.

We don't know what we're trying to do, and we don't know how to do it, and we don't have the right tools to do it with...


How's that???

Queue
 
Re: $90,000 Speaker

Originally posted by jgourd The guy with the $90K speakers is Glenn Meadows.
Click to expand...

Glenn Meadows is one of the a handful of top mastering engineers in the U.S. Another name that comes to mind are Bob Ludwig in Glen Meadows' league is Bob Ludwig. You should know Meadows' name if you listen to country music...he masters many top projects in country music. He's also the former owner of Masterfonics (before it was sold).

What I'm trying to say with all that is that if any mastering engineer can afford $90,000 monitors it's Glenn Meadows. Glenn Meadows' level (clientele, projects, etc.) cannot be compared fairly and directly to even the average mastering engineer. So it's not accurate to expect this level of gear in the average mastering room.
 
There are way more good mastering jobs and good productions than there are good songs. To think mastering is something beyond our ability is some major bull. Try being a brain surgeon or rocket scientist. Mastering is a skill that can be attained. I'm sure some mastering engineers are more talented than others and I can guarantee you that there are some very crappy engineers getting a lot of work right now. But let's try to demystify this skill, not try to dismiss people's attempts at learning it. Quite honestly, I'd be willing to bet it's easier to learn how to master decently than it is to teach yourself how to be an inspired songwriter. My two cents.
-Teddy
 
I agree, RechTech. There are those who also spend a gazillion dollars on high end sound reproduction equipment for their living rooms..to listen to Engelbert Humperdinck. While I am sure there are amazing mastering engineers out there, there is some amazing music that are pretty funky recordings (and maybe we like it that way!) and some awful music uselessly matched with inappropriately fabulous engineering.

Better to bust your hump writing and performing great stuff and getting a Masterlink!

Even a mastering genius can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
 
Teddy,

Using your analogy, I guess I wouldn't want to do "do-it-yourself" brain surgery OR mastering. In both cases I clearly don't have the equipment, facilities, training, or skills. To represent myself as a mastering engineer to my clients would be about as unethical and dishonest as calling myself a brain surgeon, although perhaps not a s life-threatening!

But if you are doing non-commercial "fun" projects for friends and family, nothing says you can't try it. Of course, you may want to hear the difference a good mastering engineer can make, even if it's just for fun.

Obviously these are skills that can be learned. But often that is done by apprenticing with an established engineer. And you still need the room and the gear to do it right.

A Finalizer + manual does not a mastering engineer make.
 
Ooops! Sorry Teddy!

Didn't mean to butt in on a private conversation! :D
 
I didn't mean to say that there is no one here who couldn't learn to master.

--BUT--

I agree with littledog. If you wanna learn to master, you've gotta spend some time with a.... uhhhh..... ....master ;)

Queue
 
Re: $90,000 Speaker

jgourd said:
The guy with the $90K speakers is Glenn Meadows.
Click to expand...

Not anymore. Glenn unfortunately doesn't work as Masterfonics anymore. The detail have been at his website for more than a month. But the monitoring required for Bob and Glenn is not typical. They are not home recordist, they are huge facilites where they have multi million dollar revenues, where they have big bank loans and big payments for everything. There are plenty of examples of facilities where the entire equipment budget is less than 1/2 of the $90,000 spent on speakers and they are still equally capable and competitve with Glenn and Bob.

SoMm
 
I know it sounds ridiculous, but $90k is really not that much money for a custom monitoring system for a 27,000 cubic foot room.

And lets say they have the modest requirements of filling that space with 110dB peak SPL, +- 2dB from 20Hz to 20kHz, and less than 1% total distortion over the entire operating range.

"!!!!>>>>$$$$ C H A C H I N G $$$$<<<<!!!!"
The cash register thundered as the floor collapsed and it crashed into the sub basement.

In fact, I doubt they even meet the specs I listed for only $90k.


Anyhow, I still think you can have a nice set of mastering speakers for $3000 – especially if you build a kit.

barefoot
 
Btw jgourd, Zalytron makes excellent kits and cabinets. http://www.zalytron.com/

They have many kit designs not listed on their web site (designed by Kimon Bellas). I would suggest something like an Aria 5 TLR with an integrated bi-amped subwoofer – sort of like an Aria 5 TLR "Monster". With cabinets it will probably cost right around $3000. A similar augmentation of the Phenomenal 3 would also be great.

PM me if you decide to go this route. I can give you more details.

Personally I think one can do their own mastering with good results. Just be aware, though, that the speakers and the room are inextricable. Besides just buying good speakers, you’re going to have to take significant measures to achieve good room acoustics as well.

barefoot
 
RecTechMin said:
I'm sure some mastering engineers are more talented than others and I can guarantee you that there are some very crappy engineers getting a lot of work right now. But let's try to demystify this skill, not try to dismiss people's attempts at learning it.
Click to expand...

Well put.

To think mastering is something beyond our ability is some major bull. Try being a brain surgeon or rocket scientist.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of a friend's party I went to. Some chick kept trying to talk to me. She could hardly follow the conversation and was saying the stupidest things. I thought she was drunk off her ass.

Then my friend asked where her beer was, but then remembered aloud that she doesn't drink. I thought to myself, "She doesn't drink and she's acting this way? This must be one of the dumbest bimbos I've ever met."

I started talking with this bimbo about my job and I mentioned how I hated working with mesh equations and finite element analysis because the stuff was such a pain to figure out. This chick actually started intelligibly commenting on finite element analysis.

It turned out this dumb bimbo was actually a missile scientist for the U.S. Navy! :eek: :rolleyes: :)

Smart girl. Zero communication skills.
 
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