Mastering game

[macle]

Thanks everyone, very interesting so far. I guess I'll let it go on for a bit before I say what's what. (And thanks to whoever gave a star, I appreciate it! )

Wes-That's an old song, isn't it? I don't think I've heard The Wallflowers version, though. I'll check it out!

Macle

 

[macle]

hey macle, off subject but...just thought of

The Wallflowers - I Started A Joke

great song. you should check it out.

I checked it out (the internet is cool that way). I had heard it before (from Zoolander!) That *is* an old song by the Bee Gees (I guess they were better before disco ) I found the lyrics. I suppose Joke is sort of similar, huh? (Interesting, too, how, at a couple points in the song, they're ripping off Dear Prudence!) Oh well.

 

[dachay2tnr]

OK, I'll make a fool of myself and play.

First off #3 is the original - simply based on overall volume level. I don't believe anyone would master a song and have it come out lower in volume than the original.

I'm going to say #1 is the pro job, and #2 is yours. Although #2 actually seemed to have clearer highs, it seems a tad overcompressed (or done with a cheap compressor). #1 seemed cleaner in that respect, and I'll attribute that to the professional.

However, the basic music is so good it would be hard for anyone to ruin it.

BTW, listening on computer speakers.

OT: How do you get that sound (at ~40sec in Joke 1) where the music stops and sounds like it's being sucked up by a vacuum cleaner. That's not just a very abrubt fade, is it?

 

[jake-owa]

I believe it's a space with a reverse cymbal.

 

[wes480]

I checked it out (the internet is cool that way). I had heard it before (from Zoolander!) That *is* an old song by the Bee Gees (I guess they were better before disco ) I found the lyrics. I suppose Joke is sort of similar, huh? (Interesting, too, how, at a couple points in the song, they're ripping off Dear Prudence!) Oh well.

yep, bee gee's and zoolander, you are correct.

i just dig the wallflowers version. but actually the bee gee's were great songwriters, i mean sure the disco thing was kind of a fad..but they have a ton of great songs.

where do you hear them ripping dear prudence? i didn't pick up on that...

 

[wes480]

by the way....Zoolander is a very underrated movie.

after the second time i watched it, it just became "art" to me. it's fucking brilliant...nothing i would change about it.

"i freakin worship you man..."

 

[macle]

dachay2tnr- jake-owa is right. That sucking sound is a space with a reverse cymbal.

wes-the very beginning, the first verse, sort of a trippy sound with that descending chord thing like Dear Prudence, then it does it again later on. Sounds like it to me, anyway. I was gonna check the BeeGees version to see if it does that too. Zoolander's pretty good, though I actually thought Meet The Parents was funnier. Ben Stiller is always good though. Meet The Parents has a good song, btw, Randy Newman's Fool In Love. I love the first line: "show me a man who's gentle and kind, and I'll show you a loser".

Speaking of losers, 2 1 star ratings! Whoever is not liking this thread, or this song, or...? Feel free to crawl out from behind the curtain, and explain why. Thanks.

Macle

 

[HangDawg]

So, if this thread is dead uuummmmm how bout an answer. I WANNA KNOW.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I liked 2 a little better than 1. I liked the way the low end sounded a little more full. That was on my Klipsch Promedias.

 

[macle]

Big Thanks to:

TexRoadkill
HangDawg
wes480
alibish
ZPphreak
chrisharris
WATYF
TheRealWaldo
mixmkr
dachay2tnr
Label
Kramer

Thanks very much for taking the time to download and reply. Definitely interesting, the different perspectives.

Joke 1=Pro
Joke 2="mastered" by me
Joke 3=original

Regarding the first Joke 2, which I took down when Kramer immediately pointed out it was shit on stick, was done by me. That is the same version that I originally posted (the first song I ever posted on the net), and I simply had smashed the frick out of it using the L1 limiter plugin. At the time, my ears were fried, I was a bit suicidal, and knew even less about mastering than I know now (which is pretty much nothing). Luckily for me, people at the time overlooked that aspect.

As I was putting these up, I listened, and thought, hmmm, my version is so absolutely awful, it probably won't be a contest, so when Kramer nailed it immediately, I thought I better redo mine real quick-like, so that's what I did. The fact that a few people picked my new one is pretty cool, I guess I've improved my mastering skills a little.

Still, I think the pro version *should* blow mine away, considering the gear they use (very high end expensive stuff), and I threw mine together using cheap plugins. When I got the pro version back, I was a bit let down. I thought, hey, this is the same rubbish I sent in, only louder. I think I was hoping it would be a completely different song/recording/people. Like it would come back Strawberry Fields or something.

But there are aspects to the pro one which are good, and I do see the potential of what mastering can do. The pro who did this did it for free, to show what they can do, but then proceeded to be a bit of a flake, not communicating, etc. So they obviously did not put much effort into it.

Thanks again to those who played, I really appreciate it,

Macle

 

[chrisharris]

Joke 1=Pro
Joke 2="mastered" by me
Joke 3=original

Okay, just to be absolutely crystal clear on this one, I was right, eh?... and Mixmkr was absolutely wrong, right?

See, the ability to actually record good mixes means nothing...it's all about this thread right here.

Cool,

-Mr. Right

[edit - I think the fact that both 1 & 2 were converted to mp3's makes this a little skewed, but it was fun]

 

[Kramer]

Hey Macle,

That was fun.I wouldnt pay this guy to matsre your stuff.He basicly did what you said,"Made it louder".

I think you need to find someone who understands your vision of the songs when it comes time to master for real.......at least find someone who has mastered the type of music you play......you want someone who can enhance the translation of your musical vision...not just "make it louder" like a commercial CD.....thats only a small part of mastering that I think most of us novices can achieve.

Do you know of any albums by other artists that you would like your stuff to sound like as far as mastering goes?If so,throw those ideas out to the Mastering guy/gal and see if they can achieve it.

Ok,Im through rambling on about absolutely nothing.This was a fun little guessing game!

 

[mixmkr]

Okay, just to be absolutely crystal clear on this one, I was right, eh?... and Mixmkr was absolutely wrong, right?

See, the ability to actually record good mixes means nothing...it's all about this thread right here.

Cool,

-Mr. Right

[edit - I think the fact that both 1 & 2 were converted to mp3's makes this a little skewed, but it was fun]

yeah...but can you walk on water??

this exercise was interesting, but confirms my thoughts that it makes you want to "qualify" your sources before the wallet opens up. Macle, I'd be disappointed too. Your music deserves better.

on a side note, I've heard some of this guys stuff, before and after....and his client list is pretty awesome too. Cheap rates also. If you can get away to Atlanta, you might check it out. I didn't remember where you were from.

http://www.rodneymills.com
oh...and this site has A LOT of flash stuff, but don't let that deter you away from checking out his site (and gear)...(and client list)....

 

[Kramer]

I think Macle is out in L.A. Mix......I've been a fan of Rodney Mills since way back when....he's mixed,engineered and mastered some of the biggest acts to come out of my neck of the woods........ARS,Lynyrd Skynyrd and 38 Special to name a few.....of course he's worked with 100's of acts that have nothing to do with that genre of music.He's a force to reckon with in these parts of the country.

 

[Kramer]

Damn,I cant believe he only charges 10 dollars "per recorded minute"......If I ever get anything worth mastering recorded I know where I'll be getting it done.

 

[alibish]

I need new ears...

Mix 1 sounds a little less clear in the high end/air/detail range. But this gives it a bit more of a "retro" feel, which makes me think it might be yours.

Mix 2 (the new one!) is very similar, but sounds a little clearer, a wee bit more "detailed". I reckon it's the pro mix.

Joke 1=Pro
Joke 2="mastered" by me
Joke 3=original

Doh!

I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky L1 limiter.

Cheers

AB

 

[Scott Tansley]

Shit I missed this thread altogether....

is there any beer left...

 

[Scott Tansley]

Ok makle, I don't think you got ripped off. Its amaising the expectations you perceive when you pay the dollars.
I can only recomend one dude cus he's all ive used. Steve Smart - EMI Sydney. He did that song "The rose and the wine". I ask him for big and fat. Not as loud as shit just big and fat and fix the upper mids (4k 60's quadbox shit) and he did exactly that. He even told me how to improve my mixes. Although most engineers do. But he did ask a loooooot of questions. I think if your guy asked a lot of questions he might of answered with a better mix. A big part of mastering is comunications.

Scott..

 

[dachay2tnr]

Macle - I don't think you got ripped off either. I recall having the same feelings as you when we had our CD mastered. With a little time and distance, I am beginning to think it was more a case that I didn't just didn't know what to expect, and then was disappointed when I didn't get it. I feel the ME improved several of the songs, didn't ruin any, and gave the CD a more cohesive feel to it. I guess in hindsight that's really what we were paying him to do. These guys aren't Rumplestiltskin, spinning straw into gold (btw, that's not meant to imply your stuff isn't gold already)

In your case, the fact that I was able to pick out the pro job listening on computer speakers to a one minute clip that was compressed into an mp3 should say something - i.e., the mix is translating.

Could you have found a better mastering engineer? Probably. Did you get ripped off? Probably not.

FWIW.
Mike

 

[macle]

Chris-Yep, you are a winner! Wish I had prizes for the winners, but...I don't. The satisfaction of being able to tell a pro's work from a doof's will have to do. Good point about the mp3 factor, but then again, that's what we all listen to now, so...

Kramer-Alright, glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for calling my first shit one so quick, otherwise, it wouldn't have been much of a game at all!

mixmkr-Thanks a lot for the Rodney Mills link. He's got quite a client list (Howard Stern!) Funnily enough, I was checking out various bands today on the web, and on one, I was looking at the credits, produced by, etc., and it was mastered by Rodney Mills! $10 a minute does seem quite cheap. I think our CD is maybe 45 minutes, that would be only $450 for the whole thing.

Alibish-Haha, well thanks a lot for playing. I appreciate your sticking your neck out, as well as everyone else who did. I thought more of the hotshots around these boards would play, but I guess they were chicken!

Scott-Hey come on in, the party's pretty much over, but there's still some beer in the frig. No strippers or anything, just talking 'bout mastering! Still, fun in it's own way...

I should reiterate that the mastering on this song was free, so I don't feel ripped off at all. And I don't think it was a bad job really, considering what they had to work with. But, as you point out, communication is crucial, and from there end, there was none. Thanks a lot for coming by, Scott, drive careful!

dachay2tnr-I hear you. As I said before, I think I was expecting a Beatle track to come back or something, instead of what I sent in! I do think they made improvements, no doubt. Hopefully, though, I'll find someone better, who *can* perform miracles! Thanks alot Mike.

Macle