Master by Mail?

[masteringhouse]

On a tangent..........

...I'm still a strong advocate for the licensing of audio engineers. Why isn't this already happening? Accountants are self-governed by a chartering body, why can't we initiate something similar for AEs/MEs?

I feel your frustration Bruce, but I don't know that it's that simple for the entertainment industry. Would we have a regulatory committee for musicians too? Would Ashley Simpson fail the test?

Audio is as much of an art as science, and though we're called "engineers" it's a rather loose definition of the term. Some of the best engineers (and musicians) I've heard are self-taught, it would be a shame to lose them due to the inability to pay for schooling. The best measurement that we have to go on is their reputation, and what they are able to produce as both artist and engineer.

 

[masteringhouse]

Well, there's always the AES...

But on the other hand, they even let me & Bruce in...

Ah I would respect you guys even if you weren't in AES. AES will take on anyone who pays their dues and has a few recommendations. Same with NARAS. I know of quite a few hacks in both organizations, doesn't mean much to me in regards to being a member and individual reputation.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I guess that's the difficulty - establishing "licensing" criteria. In the case of audio, it certainly isn't about schooling - as recording schools as such are a relatively recent educational option. And even so, there are plenty of hacks coming out of recording schools that wouldn't know good sound if it slapped them in the face!

So maybe "licensing" isn't the right term - how about accreditation? Some governing body to which a budding AE must demonstrate skill at producing quality of sound that meets current commercial standards. I know that "current commercial standard" isn't necessarily saying much - but for the most part, there's still a very large difference in calibre of sound quality between commercial product and hacks with stolen s/w.

 

[HangDawg]

I guess that's the difficulty - establishing "licensing" criteria. In the case of audio, it certainly isn't about schooling - as recording schools as such are a relatively recent educational option. And even so, there are plenty of hacks coming out of recording schools that wouldn't know good sound if it slapped them in the face!

So maybe "licensing" isn't the right term - how about accreditation? Some governing body to which a budding AE must demonstrate skill at producing quality of sound that meets current commercial standards. I know that "current commercial standard" isn't necessarily saying much - but for the most part, there's still a very large difference in calibre of sound quality between commercial product and hacks with stolen s/w.

Well here's a quote from their site.

"Every music project is mastered by a certified audio mastering engineer with advanced studies in compression and equalization, coupled with years of experience and thousands of albums mastered. "

I wonder who certified them?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Sorry Bruce, but we diverge on this one. The last thing I desire in this world in yet another arbitrary group of good ol' boys judging whether I'm worthy to pay them money to put their sticker on my windshield or not. Especially when that sticker is no guarantee of my quality; all I'd have to do is marry the president's sister (or better yet, BE the president's sister) and I'm in like flint, no skills or ethics required.

If "$15 a song boy" has truely found a legitimate market segment and it works for both him and his customers, then more power to him. On the other hand, if he is a snake oil salesman, it'll catch up to him soon enough.

G.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I hear ya, Glen - and that's true - just about any governing body is susceptible to the "evils of power", so it's a legitimate concern.

And yes, poor business practices usually weed themselves out of the market, but the problem is that they scam a lot of people out of their money before that takes place... particularly since technology and the internet makes it so easy for them to do so!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Well here's a quote from their site.

"Every music project is mastered by a certified audio mastering engineer with advanced studies in compression and equalization, coupled with years of experience and thousands of albums mastered. "

I wonder who certified them?

In college I had a teacher for one of my computer programming classes that was a real nimrod. I actually had to teach him a programming trick or two when he didn't understand what I was doing in my code.

Anyway, I still remember to this day that first day of class when he wrote his name on the board (I won't use his real name here) as: "John Doe, CDP". Of course we asked him immediately what "CDP" meant. He replied, "Certified Data Processor." As a title it's completly made up, of course. But because he got a certificate from a training course somewhere, he felt it was - by technicality of the english language - proper to call himself "certiified." It was next to meaningless.

"Certified" can only mean something if it referrs to the certifying body. Otherwise it can mean anything. I could go to the local Currency Exchange hand have them notorize a paper that I sign saying "I certify that Hang Dawg is a brain surgeon." You could then technically correctly say that you are a "certified brain surgeon." Oh, you'd be "certifiable", all right.

G.

P.S. PM me for my rates on providing you with a notarized certification for bran surgeon. I'm very cheap compared to a college degree from Equador U.

 

[NL5]

P.S. PM me for my rates on providing you with a notarized certification for bran surgeon. I'm very cheap compared to a college degree from Equador U.

Cetificate or not, any kind of grain surgery is no joking matter!

 

[LRosario]

Sorry Bruce, but we diverge on this one. The last thing I desire in this world in yet another arbitrary group of good ol' boys judging whether I'm worthy to pay them money to put their sticker on my windshield or not. Especially when that sticker is no guarantee of my quality; all I'd have to do is marry the president's sister (or better yet, BE the president's sister) and I'm in like flint, no skills or ethics required.

If "$15 a song boy" has truely found a legitimate market segment and it works for both him and his customers, then more power to him. On the other hand, if he is a snake oil salesman, it'll catch up to him soon enough.

G.

thats what it comes down to in an industry such as this one

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Cetificate or not, any kind of grain surgery is no joking matter!

Hahahaha. Actually a bran surgeon just means someone who sews his oats. ......2...3...

G.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Sorry Bruce, but we diverge on this one. The last thing I desire in this world in yet another arbitrary group of good ol' boys judging whether I'm worthy to pay them money to put their sticker on my windshield or not. Especially when that sticker is no guarantee of my quality; all I'd have to do is marry the president's sister (or better yet, BE the president's sister) and I'm in like flint, no skills or ethics required.

I couldn't agree with this more: the *last* thing we need is a government regulatory agency or agency of "industry" people governing mastering houses and audio engineers. Bruce, are you really sure you've thought through all the consequences of this, both intended and unintended?

What person or group of people in government or civilian life do you trust to decide what sounds good and what doesn't? To decide whether *you* work or not? Because that's what it comes down to.

Music is an art, and as such it develops in different ways than accounting, for example. To lump mastering in with accounting, or to use accounting as an example of what should be done is actually shocking to me.

Bottomline, anybody can use their ears and easily figure out for themselves who is a real mastering engineer and who is not. How about common sense being the best regulatory agency out there? Ultimately, people have to take *personal responsibility* for their choices and if they go to a $99 mastering house, then perhaps that is a lesson they need to learn.

 

[Bartman]

Two mail order "no-no's"

Two big mail order "no-no's":

Mail order mastering

Mail order bride

 

[Robert D]

Two big mail order "no-no's":

Mail order mastering

Mail order bride

Mail order submissive brides, two birds with one stone.

 

[russtafari]

I sent him an email with a link to this thread so that he can see what people think about what he is doing. I am still waiting for a reply.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I couldn't agree with this more: the *last* thing we need is a government regulatory agency or agency of "industry" people governing mastering houses and audio engineers. Bruce, are you really sure you've thought through all the consequences of this, both intended and unintended?

No - I haven't thought this through other than the consideration of trying to avoid less-knowledgeable hobbyists getting royally screwed by wannabes and posers with no real ability, yet claim themselves to be audio engineers. It seems to be happening more and more, and I imagine it will only get worse. And the more it happens, the moe it discredits the true professionals as a whole, since people become exceptionally wary to being cheated over and over again.

In any case, all I'm doing is raising the issue as a point of discussion, not to start a war on the topic!

Ultimately, people have to take *personal responsibility* for their choices and if they go to a $99 mastering house, then perhaps that is a lesson they need to learn.

This is very true... and I agree!

 

[giraffe]

shit, i have a L1 and a Q10 and work out of my garadge, and i'm not sure i'd do it for 100$



for my selfe i have a genral rule, nobody that's chargeing less then 300$ is probably going to do much better than i can at home.

 

[7string]

Two big mail order "no-no's":

Mail order mastering

Mail order bride

My mail order bride DELIVERED my mail order mastering!!!! NOW what do I do??????

 

[masteringhouse]

My mail order bride DELIVERED my mail order mastering!!!! NOW what do I do??????

Get screwed twice.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Get screwed twice.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Winner of "The Best Forum Answer of the Day" award for September 27, 2005!!!!

Congratulations, Tom.

G.

 

[LfO]

Well here's a quote from their site.

"Every music project is mastered by a certified audio mastering engineer with advanced studies in compression and equalization, coupled with years of experience and thousands of albums mastered. "

I wonder who certified them?

I'm not saying anything definitive, but "advanced studies in compression and equalization" makes me suspicious. I know a few Sound Recording Technology majors from my time at Texas State U, and I looked up the course offerings at the Berklee College of Music - I can't find any reference to such a specialized course (or a course focused on "mastering" per se).