Make the most out of my studio space

[aznricey]

Hello new to the forum! So excited to be here =)

So recently my friends and I formed a band. And we practice in my room. We have 2 guitar 15watt amps, drum set, recently purchased a vocal monitor (120watt vocal monitor Beringer eurolive F1220A). And of course microphone,mixer and some other recording gears.

So this room is quite small... as you can see. I notice that the drummer is too loud (even if she tried hard not to be) and so of course the guitarist would turn themselves up and the vocal (at the time we haven't had the monitor) would complain...

Anyways, I would like to know where I should place the drum set and everything else to maximize balanced tone and easy acessibility. It'll be nice to actually put the things there the way it is and not move it until a gig!
<== On your right is a very long table that stretches to the end. It's just a rectangular shaped room.

Thanks in advance,
J =)

 

[aznricey]

Anyone? =(

 

[Re-tox_stl]

Bigger amps . when my band first started, both our guitarists were playing out of little amps (15 and 20w) and we couldnt hear squat.. Now, bigger amps, more volume

 

[R&B-N-JAZZ_LADY]

It's almost about the same size of my spare room that I am planning to change into my recording room (mine is smaller). LMAO I guess, if you want something bad enough you will do just about anything to get it (or get it done).

 

[Ethan Winer]

I would like to know where I should place the drum set and everything else to maximize balanced tone

That's the wrong question. That room is so narrow that the drums (and everything else) are very close to a wall no matter where you put them. So the better question is "What do I put on the walls to improve the sound quality?" And the answer is thick absorbers. More here:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

 

[aznricey]

First of all thanks for responding to my question, appreciate it. =)
I really don't have much money to invest in, so i'm trying to make the most out of what i have.

In a standard rectangular room, it's best to orient the mix position so the speakers are firing the longer way down the room.

According to this, It's probably best that I place the drum set right in front of the window facing where I shot the picture. That would minimize comb filtering from the narrow walls at least.

While placing a blanket or thick absorbers on the walls(especially the narrow longer sides) seems to be the solution. Putting a blanket seems to be a good idea, but I have no idea how i'm going to hang blankets up...

For the sake of looks, would you think placing thick picture frames would work better? I'd put foamy materials or fiberglass padding inside the picture frame and putting a picture on the outside of a picture frame for aesthetic purpose. what do you think? The idea is below, by making a puzzle/mosaic of picture frames, i'm hoping the spaces between the frames and the padding inside the picture frame would create a good absorber/trap?

 

[Ethan Winer]

Putting a picture in front of an absorber defeats the purpose of the absorber.

--Ethan

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Putting a picture in front of an absorber defeats the purpose of the absorber.

Too reflective.


lou

 

[aznricey]

How about working out a solution FROM the drum set? I have had pillows and blankets inside the bass drum but never in the toms...

Also I purchased a few pieces of moon gel~

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

You don't want to alter the sound of the instrument. You want to control the reverberations of those sounds. Your best bet is probably to build isolation gobos and absorption panels for the walls. Look 'em up.


lou

 

[Jeff_D]

You don't want to alter the sound of the instrument. You want to control the reverberations of those sounds.
lou

this^^^ You'll (not you Lou, the OP) be amazed at how much easier it will be to listen and hear everything while you're playing together in a treated space. Even if you're not recording, it makes a world of difference!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Bigger amps

Bullshit. If you're recording, you'll mic the amps and monitor over headphones anyway. Adjust the headphones for the volume you want, and adjust the recording level for the amps appropriately. This requires a mixer with separate "group sends".

when my band first started, both our guitarists were playing out of little amps (15 and 20w) and we couldnt hear squat.. Now, bigger amps, more volume

And please explain....how does more "volume" make the room/recording sound better?? (geeeezus...never ceases to amaze me.)

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello new to the forum! So excited to be here =)

Welcome to the board. You've come to the right place. Now it's time to learn.

So recently my friends and I formed a band. And we practice in my room. We have 2 guitar 15watt amps, drum set, recently purchased a vocal monitor (120watt vocal monitor Beringer eurolive F1220A). And of course microphone,mixer and some other recording gears.

So, since you are here, and you have "other recording gears", it's obvious you are interested in recording your band. Well, first off, let's SEPARATE the "practice" thing from the "recording" thing.

So this room is quite small... as you can see. I notice that the drummer is too loud (even if she tried hard not to be)

Ok, from a "practice" standpoint, this is very typical, especially in very small rooms. So, I have 3 suggestions for you.


First, let's look at this from this standpoint.

and so of course the guitarist would turn themselves up

1. Yes, you could get "louder" amps, but that really doesn't solve your problem when it comes to this....

and the vocal(ist) (at the time we haven't had the monitor(?????) would complain...

THAT is ALWAYS the problem with a band practicing in a very small room. Drums too loud...guitarist compensate with more volume...now vocalist can't hear them self.


SOOOOOOOOOOOOO........here is the solution..PERIOD. And please, I'm only trying to help you here.

I submit... bite the bullet and listen up. What you need here is...

1. A complete HEADPHONE SYSTEM including a headphone amp with at least 4 channels that can be driven from a separate send on your mixer than the recording sends.

2. Build some HEAVY DUTY GOBO's for the drums, the guitar amps, and the vocalist.
These should be fairly stout with absorption on the side facing the instruments. Do a search on GOBO's.

OR...

3. The drummer needs a separate setup JUST FOR PRACTICING..which IS...a set of Electronic drum pads, which actually sound pretty good. At least enough for practice. Believe me, I've played in plenty of circumstances with a drummer who used these and for what they are, they sounded pretty damn good. Send the outputs to the mixer and adjust accordingly.

4. No amps. Use an effects device or Direct box of some kind and run direct to the mixing board. I know a simple DI won't give you the sound you want..so thats why I suggest using an FX with either a line level output, or a Low impedence output to drive a mic input on the mixer. There are plenty of ways to do this.

5. Put the drums in a separate room and monitor with the headphone system.


Remember this. You are ONLY practicing. If the vocalist can't hear them self you are in trouble. Your vocalist is the MOST important asset to your band, and if they can't hear them self...sooner or later...either...their voice will give out..or..they will QUIT. So, my suggestions may not make you sound like when you are on stage..but if you can't hear the balance, or your vocalist...sooner or later..YOU WON'T HAVE A BAND!!

Practice is supposed to be for three things. Learning to play material TOGETHER. Learning DYNAMICS. And learning to be MUSICIANS. This entails MUCH MORE than everybody playing at maximum volume. If you can't get it right during practice...you surely can't get it right on stage. And this means being able to HEAR EACH OTHER!!

Ok, that's my best .02


fitZ

 

[moresound]

Or just lose that Winnie-the-poo bear! just kidding ... Rick has the answers.

 

[theguit]

I agree with rick on the electronic drums. Im jamming with a couple of guys at the minute and we practice with an electronic kit and small amps. Even though the sound is low volume, the sound is fantastic. I have as much fun jamming this way as with an acoustic kit. I have a roland td4 and it sounds very realistic. Its scary how far electronic drums have come. But there's more advantages to this setup.

Headphone jams are a possibility, using a simple mixing desk and heaphone amp, you can jam all night long without pissing the neghbours off. except for the bass drum kicks !

second, and i only discovered this when i started jamming this way, you can talk to everyone while your jamming! this means you can run through ideas in real-time without disrupting the fun of a jam. honestly, how many times have you had an idea while your jamming, you stop the jam to explain your idea, but you cant explain it how it is in your head! now i have gone down this route, it is the best way to rehearse in my opinion. now all you need is an electric kit and a small amp for it . . . ..

 

[aznricey]

So this headphone set up will require a 4 channel headphone amp... which means SPENDING again lol. Do you think it's going to be possible with a single 6 channel mixer that I already have?

As much as I love the idea of a headphone jam, I know it won't work out for my band. I'm going ot be honest here. We lack time, money and knowledge(and possibly skills) lol. I'd consider guitarist and myself to be most knowledgeable already! Our vocal doesn't even know what an XLR cable is, and we take at least 45mins to set up hahaha. If we do the headphone set up we'd take a whole day lol So....

I am definitely planning to do the "blanket method" for sure(DIY absorbers if i have money), and invest in an electronic drum after I have a chance to get rid of the acoustic one. But for now, I have caved in, and decided to cheat...

Outside of my tiny "jam space", is something much greater MY PARENTS' HOME THEATRE... Since they're adults and enjoy having things just for the hell of it, i'm going to put all my stuff there temporarily until I have a greater solution. So far we've had 2 practices and it's sounding a lot better already. I'd be happy to upload some pictures if anyone is interested.

I really appreciate all the help!! Feel free to continue contributing or PM me! thanks again

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

So this headphone set up will require a 4 channel headphone amp... which means SPENDING again lol.

Make a choice. I bet you and your band mates drink this much coke in a month.

Here's three possibilities

ART HeadAMP 4 channel Headphone Amplifier - eBay (item 250772881296 end time Feb-17-11 19:00:35 PST)

PreSonus HP4 Headphone Amplifier - eBay (item 250771869209 end time Feb-17-11 20:01:52 PST)

Headphone Distribution Amp Rolls RA53b NEW! - eBay (item 280627575496 end time Feb-21-11 05:00:13 PST)

$25

Then you each need a pair of headphones.

New Skull & Bones Pro DJ Headphones w/1/4" Plug Adaptor - eBay (item 400194512355 end time Feb-17-11 17:08:50 PST)
4x$5=$20

And extension Cables
4x$5=$20
10' 1/4" 6.3mm Stereo Headphone Microphone Cables 6FT. - eBay (item 350329826160 end time Mar-12-11 17:02:34 PST)

As much as I love the idea of a headphone jam, I know it won't work out for my band.

Oh, maybe I misunderstood you. I was under the distinct impression you were looking for solutions. I gave you the ONLY solution to your problem.

We lack time, money and knowledge(and possibly skills)

Hmmm, we already covered the money part. How much time and knowledge does it take to plug in 4 headphones, 4 extension cables, and the cable from the mixer to the headphone amp? Sounds like an excuse to me.

Our vocal doesn't even know what an XLR cable is, and we take at least 45mins to set up hahaha

I don't think it's funny. I suggest you get serious and figure out what is more important. Playing or fooling around. You need a plan and direction. SERIOUSLY. Who is the band LEADER? He needs to take the bull by the horns and get real. OR....you'll take a year to learn one set of tunes. Which is another subject altogether but really..someone has to get a handle on EXACTLY what you are trying to accomplish here. Waste time?

I am definitely planning to do the "blanket method" for sure(DIY absorbers if i have money), and invest in an electronic drum after I have a chance to get rid of the acoustic one. But for now, I have caved in, and decided to cheat...

Cheat? Cheat who? Yourself?

Outside of my tiny "jam space", is something much greater MY PARENTS' HOME THEATRE...

ummmm, exactly how does that solve your problems? You still have a loud drummer, a vocalist that can't hear themself, and(you claim) your guitar amps are too small. Moving in another larger room may solve your setup problem with more space, but you'll STILL have your worst problem. But soon, you won't worry about it because you won't have a band.

.. Since they're adults and enjoy having things just for the hell of it,

Ooooooooh. Now I get it.

i'm going to put all my stuff there temporarily until I have a greater solution.

That's weird. I thought I gave you the solution. What part of what I told you didn't you understand?

So far we've had 2 practices and it's sounding a lot better already.

Oh, that's good. But what do you mean by "it's sounding better"? Arrangements? Balance? Meter? Dynamics? In tune? How do you measure "sounding better"? Do you have a goal for each practice? Just curious. The reason is...a lot of musicians just want to jam. But some want to do something more with their music besides jamming.

I really appreciate all the help!!

No problem. Good luck with the practice.

 

[Jeff_D]

Personally, I couldn't imagine trying to have a band practice all in headphones. I'd spend that money on acoustic treatment (and NOT foam, or blankets or egg crates) before I went for a headphone amp and bunch a cans. That room is small, but you can make your treatments so that you can move them when you find a bigger space. Obviously the drums will set the volume and you'll need amps big enough to be comparable- or you could mic your small amps through your PA. Anyway, Ricks points are all a valid approach, but not the way I'd go.

 

[brett304msn]

Just wanted to mention that my drummer uses brushes during practice.. Helps alot! Have the drummer learn more control over his attack! We're playing hard rock not jazz or anything btw!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'd spend that money on acoustic treatment

Hey Jeff. Exactly how does treatment help with a drummer that is too loud for the vocalist to hear them self? I'd be interested to know.