dainbramage
New member
I think you're wrong. We're not talking about a 5 week paid holiday and free health insurance here. Just acceptable conditions that would probably cost nowhere near the profit from their production.
Made in China
- Thread starter dainbramage
- Start date
I think you're wrong. We're not talking about a 5 week paid holiday and free health insurance here. Just acceptable conditions that would probably cost nowhere near the profit from their production.
No it isn't. I never said murder was okay. I just said I don't care if people I don't know are murdered. Means nothing to me. As far as that goes my point of view is all that matters and from my point of view many people's lives don't mean as much as mine does. You don't get to decide who I think is more or less important than me. Besides, trying to draw a parallel between murder and Teddy Wong not getting a lunch break is way more flawed than anything I've said.
You seem to really want to dictate how, when, and where these people work. Why? What's "acceptable conditions"? For some, that's nothing less than a private jet and limos everywhere. for Teddy Wong that might just mean a steady paycheck.
Not only that, the "slave labor" would have to start up again back home because price is the number one overriding factor with everything. Close the sweat shops, lose cheap labor. Lose cheap labor, prices go up. Prices go up, people stop buying. People stop buying, workers lose jobs. You're hurting the the very poor hapless fuckups that you're trying to save.
dainbramage
New member
I was responding to your claim that anything natural is legit by default, and of course, that doesn't have anything to do with who you think is important and who you think is not. So the parallel is not between murder and the lunch break per se. You asked for an example of something natural that was not legit. I gave you a relevant example and for some reason you related it to your life again. Whether or not something is legit is a question of a far more objective matter than your own life.
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
That's fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions
But who's to say what's acceptable and by who's standards? Are they forced to stand in their own excrement while they assemble our worldly goods and denied adequate toileting facilities? Do they not get a meal break? Time off for funerals? I don't get the whole 'Acceptable'" part of it. These people know no better as it's all they've ever known. It's a way of life. A good or a bad way of life is up to them to determine not doo-gooders in other countries who have it much better..
If the millions of people 'forced' to work in such conditions really cared for these 'unacceptable conditions' they would stand up and fight because the only way anything will change is by the Will and Might of the people. Not me or you, not buying an amp they made.
dainbramage
New member
Acceptible conditions means better than this:
Workers in Chinese Apple factories forced to sign pledges not to commit suicide | Mail Online
And so on. Many people here seem to believe Asian people somehow don't get overworked the way we would. I have spoken to people firsthand, mainly from Taiwan, who disagrees. And there are countless reports showing how you seem to overestimate the capacity of people just because they've grown up in different cultures and locations than you.
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
So you went with "Teddy"?
I've not long finished watching Memento and Joe Pantoliano's character is called Teddy. It just stuck with me. And then there's Teddy Wong from The Wanderers
Glad it tickled you anyway. We need more Teddy Wong around here.
My life is all that matters, so naturally I look at things relative to my own life. I don't want you to die, but I gotta tell you, if there's a choice, better you than me. Murder is natural and it's not okay for the same reasons that I said earlier - we intervened. Humans made murder wrong - in subjective cases. For example, in our society, it's okay to kill a killer, it's okay to kill an intruder, it's okay to kill in self defense, but not okay to kill anyone else. So murder is not only natural, it's also not always wrong. I relate it to my own life because you brought it up and applied it to me. Then you tried to tell me that other people's lives are just as important as I am. That's not true. I don't believe that all men are created equal, and I don't believe that all life is valuable. What about a pedophile? A child abuser? Say some man kidnaps little kids, rapes, tortures, kills them, and then delivers their mutilated bodies back to their parents. How valuable is his life?
Steenamaroo
...
I sincerely hope "Teddy Wong" catches on on a John Doe kind of scale.
So they should be allowed to commit suicide? I agree with that. Power to the people.
Do those Taiwanese people make rubber dog shit by any chance? Japanese culture is notorious for it's work ethic and hard work. They brag about how they work, how hard they work, how long they work, and dismiss the western way of taking weekends off as lazy. So I guess it just depends on which asian you ask. Your taiwanese rubber dogshit maker might feel pretty lousy about his rubber dog shit making job. The japanese auto worker seems to be pretty proud.
Who is "you". Do you mean me specifically? I don't follow where you're going with this.
dainbramage
New member
I follow your argument and to a certain degree, at a philosophical level, I agree that morality is subjective. That does not justify anything. It does not mean it is OK, because considering something OK is just as subjective as anything else. Something being natural does not, in my opinion, necessarily make it legit. Your view is pretty extreme dude. Maybe it is a cultural thing. Over here, most of us would not even consider the legitimacy of death penalty.
c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
That's fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions
But who's to say what's acceptable and by who's standards? Are they forced to stand in their own excrement while they assemble our worldly goods and denied adequate toileting facilities? Do they not get a meal break? Time off for funerals? I don't get the whole 'Acceptable'" part of it. These people know no better as it's all they've ever known. It's a way of life. A good or a bad way of life is up to them to determine not doo-gooders in other countries who have it much better..
If the millions of people 'forced' to work in such conditions really cared for these 'unacceptable conditions' they would stand up and fight because the only way anything will change is by the Will and Might of the people. Not me or you, not buying an amp they made.
What exactly have you had to fight for?
Oh yeah, the generations that came before you took care of that and you get to sop the gravy while justifying and accepting practices in foreign countries that are banned in your country.
Long live the fucking Queen.
And looking at that link, this list caught my eye:
They claimed that:
They claimed that:
- Wait, payslip? That worker got paid for 98 OT hours in one month? He got paid for it. Where's the problem? If you base their work week on our standard 40 hr week, 98 hours of OT means that the employees worked roughly 60 hr work weeks. Sorry, but that's not uncommon. Especially during holiday seasons.
- This too happens all the time in busy industries or during busy times of year.
- WTF? Oh the horror!
- Banned from talking is a little excessive, and standing for 12 straight hours is rough, but none of these seem like horrendous, intolerable working conditions to me. Maybe they're just entitled pussies like most americans are.
c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
LOL@ 40 hour workweek in China.
Forced student labour is central to the Chinese economic miracle | Aditya Chakrabortty | Comment is free | The Guardian
Forced student labour is central to the Chinese economic miracle | Aditya Chakrabortty | Comment is free | The Guardian
That's because, once again, your society is peaceful and homogenized. And there's not many of you. Here in the US, there are more murders in one day than you probably have in three decades. Our multi-culturalism is the very thing tearing this country apart. In many ways I'm envious of your way of life. You guys got it made. I wish your idealism could be reality and work over here. It never will. We have rock and roll and blue jeans and a bunch of violence and bullshit at every level. Maybe that's why I'm desensitized to all of this and you aren't. I see the shit of humanity every day. I don't walk around thinking and hoping that everything is peaceful and everyone is happy.
dainbramage
New member
They should, but clearly that was not the point. The point was that if a factory owner really feels the need to make rules like this, the conditions are obviously not considered acceptable by the workers themselves. Also I recommend reading the link so you know what I mean by "acceptable". Some people here seem to think the workers themselves consider it acceptable, but believe you me, many don't. Many work under such conditions because they do not have a choice.
I am aware that much of asian culture have that kind of work ethic, but justifying it by cultural standards doesn't really hold up. Read up on reports regarding suicide related to working conditions in these countries and you will know what I mean.
I meant "you" in plural. What I am trying to say is that you, well let's say we, a significant number of western people, seem to think that people somehow have inhuman capacities for work, staying awake etc.
I didn't say it was, I was just making a comparison. Besides, you're the last person to talk on any of this. You're a pothead flunkee union hack. People like you are why things are being made in the sweatshops of china and india.
I'm totally okay with that.
Asian workers committing suicide doesn't really mean anything to me. Suicide is their answer for everything. Kamikaze! If you have some committing suicide, and some proudly doing their job, then it's just like any other society. You're gonna have extremes, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The middle being, whatever. Some hate their life, some don't.
I don't think that. I take like 3 naps a day.