Layering rock guitars 101

Mr Clean said:
Get an interface and start recording/learning. There is no 101, rule book or anything else that'll really help you. Record a track and then record another, experiment, mess with the sounds until you get what YOU like. Picture it in your head and hear it before you lay it down. Does the track want 1 guitar or 4? Only you will know. Don't think for a minute you have to have X amount of layered guitars to make it sound good. Most of the time, less is more!

Someone could give you the amp, comp, eq, delay and reverb settings for a nice sound for them. Doesn't mean it'll work for you. No one has been to the Multi-Layering Guitar Tracks school. It's all about trial and error. If you think there is a magic formula or plugin to make it happen, you're very much mistaken.

Time for you to start playing and learning the craft, from the beginning. No two ways about it. (As it would be for anyone else stumbling upon this thread)

:thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Right, that's been made very clear. But some of the advice (for example, back off the gain if you're going to layer multiple overdriven tracks) seems pretty universal. It's also something that might have taken me a few days to figure out. Now I've been saved that time--and so have other people who might read this later.

But yes, I'm counting on having to experiment on my own and find my own sounds and preferences.
 
Greg_L said:
There's actually a very real possibility that once you get started you'll end up thinking to yourself "man, layered guitars really suck".

I really do think layering guitars is one of those myths/cliches that people think they need to do because so-and-so did it. People do a lot of things in recording that they think they're supposed to do, when the reality is they don't. I'm not saying don't try, just don't get caught up in doing unnecessary things. You seem to be hellbent on layering guitar tracks, and that's cool, just don't think that you absolutely have to do it, because you don't.
Click to expand...

the edge would be screwed though without layering ;)
 
Who gives shit about what he's using. He wants a quick answer to start off.

Start by double tracking with a guitar tone you love going in (whether it be digital sims or mic'ing an amp). Pan it hard r/l if it is a rhythm and see how that sounds. For a different texture, use a different guitar with close to the same amp settings on the other side. Now try putting a third track in the center. Still sound good? Sound better? Sound worse? Want MORE guitars?! Do another round of the above and change your eq to something different that might complement it. Maybe emphasize some stuff in the 800-hz and up range and roll everything else off and blend them together and see what you get. Like it? Too muddy? Yeah, thought so. Believe it or not, the MORE you layer the same thing, the muddier and more unclear things get. Start with a simple approach and see what you get. If you want more texture, then bus those guitars to various auxes with different textures on them. Maybe a bus overdriven with tape saturation, another bus with some crazy parallel eq, another buss with some stomp box or wah filter effect, etc This list goes on. No need to track more than a couple performances of the same thing.

If you have different parts you want layered, well that's a whole different story. Just track and mix them in a way so they don't get in each other's way. Carve em out. Want your rhythms beefy and then some weird stereo lead melody to stick out more? Carve it out and make room for each wherever you want to hear them in the frequency spectrum.

But most importantly of all...don't drown out the drums or the bass guitar!!
 
Another thing that I thought of, but havent done for a while, is to use different chord voicings when you layer the parts.
Just for clarity, I dont consider having one guitar panned left and the other panned right as a 'layered' guitar. when you start adding to that, actually laying more guitar tracks on top of those, is it layered.

Using different voicings will add texture and possibly get rid if some of the slop of layering.
 
RecordingMaster said:
Who gives shit about what he's using.
Click to expand...

Well, I do. It matters. If you don't think there's a difference between tracking real amps, sims, and standalone modeling units, then I'm thinking maybe you don't...well I'm not gonna say. I didn't wanna give him a bunch of DAW tricks and silly hoops to jump through. I'd rather focus on the fundamentals since this guy seemingly has no clue what he's doing. You're obviously okay with throwing everything in the DAW at "layered guitars", and he's probably okay with doing that.
 
Farview said:
Another thing that I thought of, but havent done for a while, is to use different chord voicings when you layer the parts.
Just for clarity, I dont consider having one guitar panned left and the other panned right as a 'layered' guitar. when you start adding to that, actually laying more guitar tracks on top of those, is it layered.

Using different voicings will add texture and possibly get rid if some of the slop of layering.
Click to expand...

Awesome advice, thanks.
 
Greg_L said:
Well, I do. It matters. If you don't think there's a difference between tracking real amps, sims, and standalone modeling units, then I'm thinking maybe you don't...well I'm not gonna say. I didn't wanna give him a bunch of DAW tricks and silly hoops to jump through. I'd rather focus on the fundamentals since this guy seemingly has no clue what he's doing. You're obviously okay with throwing everything in the DAW at "layered guitars", and he's probably okay with doing that.
Click to expand...

Well, I had some confusion initially, but once I understood why I needed a good interface that whole line of discussion got kinda moot. Now you can assume that I'll do my best to get the best signal going in, so the focus of the thread can go back to guitar layering tips.
 
RecordingMaster said:
Who gives shit about what he's using. He wants a quick answer to start off.

Start by double tracking with a guitar tone you love going in (whether it be digital sims or mic'ing an amp). Pan it hard r/l if it is a rhythm and see how that sounds. For a different texture, use a different guitar with close to the same amp settings on the other side. Now try putting a third track in the center. Still sound good? Sound better? Sound worse? Want MORE guitars?! Do another round of the above and change your eq to something different that might complement it. Maybe emphasize some stuff in the 800-hz and up range and roll everything else off and blend them together and see what you get. Like it? Too muddy? Yeah, thought so. Believe it or not, the MORE you layer the same thing, the muddier and more unclear things get. Start with a simple approach and see what you get. If you want more texture, then bus those guitars to various auxes with different textures on them. Maybe a bus overdriven with tape saturation, another bus with some crazy parallel eq, another buss with some stomp box or wah filter effect, etc This list goes on. No need to track more than a couple performances of the same thing.

If you have different parts you want layered, well that's a whole different story. Just track and mix them in a way so they don't get in each other's way. Carve em out. Want your rhythms beefy and then some weird stereo lead melody to stick out more? Carve it out and make room for each wherever you want to hear them in the frequency spectrum.

But most importantly of all...don't drown out the drums or the bass guitar!!
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's all great advice!
 
jimmys69 said:
Layering of amp sims tend to build up the already existing 'fizzy' tone the distorted sims have-especially with the cheap or free versions. Layering just makes it worse.
Click to expand...
<<<<<THIS

jimmys69 said:
What you really need to do first off, is purchase an interface. You need to get out from under the restrictions of that USB adapter. They sound like ass.
Click to expand...
<<<<<THIS


jimmys69 said:
There are some few exceptions where I will actually duplicate a track, pan maybe 20% and delay one. This is NEVER a good idea for the solid rhythm track EVER. Only for accent tracks or some strange effect.
Click to expand...
<<<<<THIS

Basically all of these. And going back to the first page, the only way you're really going to learn these things is by doing and trying and finding out. I can tell you all day any one of these suggestions, but until you actually try one first-hand and realize the whys and hows of it not working, you won't truly get it. In other words, gain practical experience.

But I too am no expert and I like your idea about learning the rules first THEN breaking them. Truth is, there are no rules. But yeah, there are definitely things NOT to do! Get an interface.
 
Hah, with this interface stuff you guys are starting to remind me of my mom when I was a kid:

Mom: "You need to go do X!"
Me: "Okay, I'll go do it."
Mom: "You need to go do X!"
Me: "Uh...didn't I just say I would?"

One might almost get the impression you thought an interface was important or something... :D
 
Hazard Nova said:
Hah, with this interface stuff you guys are starting to remind me of my mom when I was a kid:

Mom: "You need to go do X!"
Me: "Okay, I'll go do it."
Mom: "You need to go do X!"
Me: "Uh...didn't I just say I would?"

One might almost get the impression you thought an interface was important or something... :D
Click to expand...

:D Oh yes, but it IS! :D
 
There are no answers; only good sounds. Try these tips:
1- Layer by having the rhythm guitarist replay their part three times; then pan right, left, and center.
2- Have the guitarist replay the part on acoustic.
3- Using a good synth string setting, slide that sound in just under the guitar.
4- Use three guitarists playing all at once.
5- Put a choruser on the guitar.
6- Have the guitarist change settings on the guitar and replay the track.
7- Run a clean guitar track through three different guitar head and cab combinations and offset them just a little.
I hope that helps. Good luck,
Rod Norman
Engineer
 
I love thick Chunky metal guitars! to answer you questions on layering...
Here is what I do.

A total of 5 guitar tracks

Two matching hard rhythm tracks panned hard left and right

Two matching rhythm tracks with less low end and more mids, panned 35% right and left

One Bright rhythm track dead center

For volume, the first two tracks panned hard are loudest, then the second two. The center track is just barely heard.

1. Record your rhythm track

2. Pan that track hard right. Double your rhythm track with that track panned hard left so that you can hear each track clearly.

3. Change your guitar sound, different tone, amp, EQ, etc. Not to much I usually add more mids, roll off lows and cut back on gain.

4. Record your rhythm track using only the original track panned hard right as reference with the new track panned hard left.

5. Double that track. You will eventually pan these 35% to the right and left

6. Record a "bright" rhythm track and center it.

You had mentioned type of guitar, well if you are not using and amp it is no big deal. I do like to use neck through body guitars that also are String through with a standard bridge (not Floating) Like a Les Paul, I just like the tone. Tune before each track.

I have fun with the tracking configuration, sometimes i just use two and bring in one or two for the chorus. Sometime I use all 5 throughout
 
I hope this answers your question!!!

I want to know things such as:

  • How many overlaid guitar tracks are too many? = None- the most I use is four (quad track)
  • If I've overlaid too many guitar tracks and the mix is starting to get muddy, which ones should I try eliminating first?=stick to four Gtr tracks at most. If it gets muddy, start working with EQ. Something else you'll want to consider is making sure each guitar was recorded well. I'm referring to mic positioning. And then the performance was well played.
  • What are some basic guidelines for stereo placement when it comes to layering guitars? = honestly this is preference, but just listen for a well balanced stereo mix of the guitars.
  • What kinds of guitar sounds combine in what ways? (References to parts of actual songs would be helpful.) = no reference other than the song your are referencing. Colorful guitar recordings may include two mics capturing the same sound and using those two tracks as one. This is a little more advanced and requires more out of your computer.
  • Are there any combinations of sounds to avoid? = no, only frequencies you want to stay away from. Keep in mind that heavy rock has a lot of low-mids. So yes it'll be easy to muddy things up. When it comes to your final mix, put everything in mono, listen at a low volume and mix that way. When you are done, then pan instruments out. If you can hear things individually in mono, your stereo image will POP! :D
  • Is guitar feedback (and other kinds of noise) way more commonly used in layering than most people realize? If so, when? = This is more of an abstract thing, if YOU feel the song arrangement calls for it, then do it. If you are trying to get rid of noise, then look into things like denoisers.
  • In interviews, I've heard guitarists I like talk about using certain guitars for layering. What do they mean? What makes a guitar good for layering? How do I emulate that with a single guitar? = they like the sound of certain guitars combined with another guitars tone. Porcupine Tree for example will use a lower tonality in the left speaker and a higher, more treb guitar in the right. Think about your stereo image. If more lower end sounds are in the left speaker, they'll fight for power. So pan accordingly. Engineering is a craft, so it takes time to tune your ears to hear these things, BUT it can be done.
  • Any other suggestions/dos and don'ts/things to keep in mind or watch out for are welcome! = Do's... Sign up for the email list at averagejoestudiopro.com new website I started and still working on the look but every week I'll be posting something on either recording or mixing. And then get all your friends to sign up. Absolutely free. CHEERS! And I hope I helped you out with more direct answers than not. But remember, you'll only become a better engineer if you practice these teachings often. Enjoy.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top