Kick Drum question.

[clong89]

When recording kick drum do you take that flimsy plastic cover off of the front or leave it on? The kick drum sounds too "bassy" and I hear a little flutter from the cover sometimes. Also, we record in a living room that is carpeted and about 20'x10'. What is the cheapest most basic way to treat the room for drums to get better isolation from the individual drum mics (assuming that is the way to get better isolation, if not please inform me)? We currently do nothing to the room.

 

[cammojoe]

Experiment with moving the mic closer to the batter head of the drum. Typically I leave the resonant head on the kick drum if it has a hole where I can fit a mic in it. I usually put the mic 2/3rds inside the drum and aim it at the beater. I also consider the style of music I record with which technique I use.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

That "plastic cover" is the resonant head, as opposed to the batter head. It has a big effect on the sound, though not necessarily always a good effect, especially if the player can't tune drums well or the heads are worn out.

Even if the resonant head has a hole in it I often end up having the drummer remove it for recording. The sound without it is, not surprisingly, less resonant. It gives me more latitude to place the mic to get just the tone I want.

Treating the room probably won't get the isolation you're looking for from the mics since bleed is mostly happening via the direct paths from sources to mics rather than from reflected paths. Sometimes people make small panels to control bleed, but I've never resorted to that. One approach is to use lots of close mics, especially mics with tight patterns. The other end of the spectrum is to use fewer mics. If the kit sounds great and is played well it should sound good with fewer mics. Only if it sounds bad or is played unevenly or the genre requires special processing do you need to use many mics.

Kick drums often require a bit of eq to finish off the tone. Most of the time I cut at around 150Hz and boost at 2-4kHz, but it really all depends on the recorded tone and everything else going on in the mix.

 

[Farview]

If the front head doesn't have a port hole in it, take it off. (or get a head with the hole, or make a hole) I prefer the sound of the kick with the front head on with a port hole. I tune the batter head for the smack and the reso head for the tone.

You will not get isolation for the different mics, and you shouldn't. The drum kit is one instrument, not a collection of separate instruments. They all interact with each other.

A lot of getting a good drums ound comes down to tuning and the drummer. the only time I have problems with bleed is when the drummer is playing with inappropriate dynamics. If he beats the living crap out of the snare drum and gently taps on the toms, that will force you to turn the level of the tom mics up, which makes the volume of the snare drum in the tom mics louder too.

If you are using the same model of mic on the snare and the toms, your gain for all the mics should be about the same. If they aren't, bleed could become an issue.

 

[nbarts]

The answer is do whatever it takes to make it sound the way you want it to sound. You are the person in charge & you are standing there & know what you are hearing. The only advice I can give you, is set up your mics & listen to what you get through the mics, not what you hear in the room. Tweak & change things accordingly.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

It all depends on the sound you want. The resonant head can produce deep tones. Removing the resonant head can really up the attack. So... is the tone or attack more important?

 

[Brumus]

If the front head doesn't have a port hole in it, take it off. (or get a head with the hole, or make a hole)

agreed, then just stuff a regular pillow in there, toss in a Shure SM91...done.
last session i literally just flipped the thing in there, it landed rightside up on the pillow, check, i turned on the channel, done..perfect. not that easy all the time, but that mic requires no stand, no EQ.

D12E, D112, 421, this beats them all for ease of use and sound quality right off the the get go.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

agreed, then just stuff a regular pillow in there, toss in a Shure SM91...done.
last session i literally just flipped the thing in there, it landed rightside up on the pillow, check, i turned on the channel, done..perfect. not that easy all the time, but that mic requires no stand, no EQ.

D12E, D112, 421, this beats them all for ease of use and sound quality right off the the get go.

Because there's one right kick drum sound for everything, right?

 

[Brumus]

of course not, but assuming the drummer whose kit it is im mic'ing likes the sound of his/her drum, or used to fussing with it from outside on a stand, then the 91 is a clear winner. if you are trying to adjust the sound of the kick as it stands, then, duh, youll need EQ.

as recording engineers it is our job to first attain the desire of the musicians being recorded, then to set the path to get there. i was merely giving a good example in regards to the context of the question being asked. relax...

 

[FunkDaddy]

as recording engineers it is our job to first attain the desire of the musicians being recorded,

I'd have to disagree slightly. I think your first priority should be to get the best possible sound on tape which is hopefully the desire of the musicians being recorded.

 

[Farview]

I'd have to disagree slightly. I think your first priority should be to get the best possible sound on tape which is hopefully the desire of the musicians being recorded.

I disagree with this. The first priority is to get a sound that is appropriate to the song. But, if the client wants something different, you give him that.

Think about it, if the client is going for a lo-fi esthetic, getting the 'best possible kick sound' would actually do more harm than good to the project.

The job of the engineer is to make the vision of the client a reality. It's not about you and what you think it should sound like. If the client's vision is far away drums, squeaky guitar and vocals that sound like they are coming out of a transistor radio, it's your job to make that happen.

If you are the producer, you can certainly try to make that choice. But you will be fighting the band the whole way, which is a waste of time. When the CD flops (as most do), the band will blame it on you because you took the CD in a different direction than they wanted.

 

[FunkDaddy]

Makes sense

 

[mixsit]

...Think about it, if the client is going for a lo-fi esthetic, getting the 'best possible kick sound' would actually do more harm than good to the project.

The job of the engineer is to make the vision of the client a reality. ..

I'm actually going through a bit of this right now- We all want to keep it 'old school blues, they almost want to keep the roughs for the most part (wow , and do I get where this comes from, but I'm also hearing them as a bit too plain. Plus the roll in this project is to present the vocalist. While he agrees we do not want 'uptown dressed up blues, it is I and a pair of the musicians that are responsible for supporting him that are stearing this.
Interesting line to walk.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

I'd have to disagree slightly. I think your first priority should be to get the best possible sound on tape...

I agree 100%... which is why I always make recording compromises in favor of what the musician is used to/comfortable with.

You can't get the best possible sound on tape without the musicians being in their best possible "zone". A confident musician grooving on familiar "wrong" gear will always sound better than a frustrated musician going through the motions on the "right" gear.