It all started with a desire...

  • Thread starter Thread starter WildFire
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WildFire

New member
(a story with a moral)

This was desire to record music. It was so simple in the beginning. I had a vision of what I need, just not the particulars to fullfill that need. I know what I'm capable of; I've recorded some stuff with a SM57/C1000 through some old preamps of a 4-track into a SBLive! Card. Using whatever software I had at my disposal, I got better at what I was doing. My mixes were sounding better, my composition ability started maturing.

2 years later, after some gigs, goofin around and working at my day job, I decided I wanted to get a bit more serious with this whole home recording deal. So after talkin with some of the other guys at work who also know the territory (my place of work - an advertising agency - is full of musicians), they had me consider the Yamaha 4416 DAW. "Great!" I thought to myself. Sounds like an awesome tool. 16 Tracks, 24bit HD recording, built in DSP. Sounds excellent. Price? affordable.

So I take a trip down to the music store and talk to the Sales guy in the recording dept. I can trust this guys oppinion. I have a good customer relationship with the staff in this store. He gives me a good 2 hours worth of explanations (which he seemed too enjoy) and suggestions knowing full well I wasn't going to buy anything that day. He also pointed me at the more expensive Roland VS2480. Yes, I was drooling. 24tracks of sweet 24bit audio, VGA output and oh the list goes on. Oh yeah, I wanted that. Suddenly, reality struck me. I don't have room for the roland, plus, the price of the 2480, plus monitors (yes I was informed about those too) and possibly a better mic, a CD-Recorder for the VS machine, and all this other stuff was going to put me WAY over my budget. Of course the reality didnt strike me that day, it was a good month later after countless of hours reading reviews, specs, documentations, reading stuff on VS-Planet and so on.

Fine, solution? - I'm great with computers, hell, I used to build/repair/sell them for a living (now i just work on them :).

I thought, why not just go back to basics and use a computer to record with. Makes sense right? I know that there is hardware out there that could possibly make a computer just as good as any standalone DAW out there. Great, so I started the my research. I started off on google.com and did my searches and then I found the echo line of products. It wasn't to impressive to me but thats all managed to find after a few hours of reading and searching. Discouraged by my efforts, I stoped my research and stumbled my way to websites such as this one, prorec.com, homerecording@about and a bunch of others.

This is where my nightmare began. I was hit by a ton of information! Monitors, mixers and pre-amps oh my! There I read, review after review after article. Who would of thought that there was so much to know! I soaked it all like a sponge. I printed hundreds of pages of webpages and pdf files (courtesy of the company printer) which left me piles of reading material. And after reading about Mackie, Aardvark, Echo, Yamaha, Audio-Technica, Rhode and a whole wack more... My good sound card and computer idea just wasnt as simple anymore.

And then I stumbled on to here. Oh boy, I was really asking for it now. Not only do I have opinions from reviewers, now I had em from amatures and pros. Here I was introduced to Digidesign, M-Audio, ST Audio, MOTU, yada yada yada.

All this BBS did was complicate my situation, expand my already large set of options and add more questions to my already full list.

Oh woe is me..

Everyone here has an opinion, most are different from others and I'm finding everything here to be extremely subjective.

So where am I know? No where, probably not any farther then when I once started.

I am a long time reader here, and it scares me tha I remember names like Bruce, Gidge, Tubedude, dobro and so on... (sorry if i spelt any of these wrong)

I find that a lot of newbies tend to ask the same questions. Basically "What is better" with a selection of even just as a general statement.

I feel their pain.

Sometimes I wish there was a true answer to "what is the best" out there so I would at least have some direction to where I need to go. I realize from all their mistakes is that there is no "best" but at most a small majority (oxymoron.. i know)

I've narrowed down my choices to a few soundcards. As I know, no single post will tell me which is best for me as only I can make that decision.

In the future messages I may ask questions about a particular card and I hope any replies will help me in my quest.

Here, I would like to introduce myself to this BBS. I'm WildFire, and as it states under my name, I AM a newbie (with a lot of knowledge gathered from months of research :P.. irony?)

Thank you for your time.

-WildFire, 1st post.

Replies welcome
 
Wildfire,

I don't understand if you have a question or what, but if you are seeking nirvana and trying to find the magic combination then you are on a fruitless quest.

Recommendation...buy something, ANYTHING; DAW, Protools, etc. and take the time to learn to use it. The problem with most people is that they invest in some gear and can't figure out why their mixes don't sound like their favorite CD after only playing with the gear for about 15 minutes.

Good luck.
 
Art is subjective, so it shouldn't be a surprise that peoples taste in equipment is equally as subjective. You can't have a system with zero distortion so were all stuck in the same boat trying to figure out which components distort in the most pleasing way :)

I was planning to buy some new equipment last year, but a sudden downturn in the stock market left me a protracted period in which to ponder the possibilities. Over that time I think I've sorted out a couple things, for starters: the best way to evaluate equipment is to hear it for yourself and compare. Of course, thats difficult for many of us, so we are often left to depend on the evaluation of others.

In lisiting to what other people have to say, you have to apply a little common sense. You'll hear lots of people endorsing what they already own, we all like to validate our own decisions and one way to do that is endorse it to someone else and have them find out they like it. However, if those endorsements come from someone who appears to have little experience with any competing products I'd put a little less faith in it than the opinion of someone with exposure to a lot more kinds of equipment.

In the end though the best techer is experience and the unfortunate reality is you'll have a much better idea of what you want after you've bought something and used it for a while. So sometimes the best advice is to make some kind of decision and go with it hoping to update or revise your setup in the future once you have a little more experience..
 
When it comes to soundcards, the M-Audio Delta cards are very popular around here.. of course there are others aswell..

- How many channels will you record simultaneously at most?
- What instruments are you planning to record?
- Do you own a POD (or the like) or will you mic an amp?
- Do you use MIDI?
- What equipment do you already have?

/me puts on a Gidge-mask and recommends some products.

M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
N-Track multitracker. www.fasoft.com
Goldwave waveditor (freeware?)
A Mic-preamp from M-Audio
A Marshall MXL-V67 Large Diafragm condenser

and my own recommendation:
Waves Native Gold Bundle DirectX Plugins.

This will give you plenty channels of 24bit recording with a sound that's gonna go a long way. I don't think it'll cost that much money either..

Then again.. there are zillions of other products...
 
You do the research to avoid buying bad gear, then you focus in on the good gear that is going to suit you, your pocket, the music you want to make, the way you want to work; then you learn how to use it. Simple (!!!!!!!!!!!!!):)
 
Mesh, great Gidge imitation...but my weenie is bigger......:D
 
Welcome Wildfire. I'm giaschel, 300 and something posts, forever newbie.
 
Hi

Heh, I honestly didn't expect anyone would of actually read all of that. It was really just me venting my fustrations. Now that I feel somewhat better, I can start to ask questions. Just not in this thread :)

Thanks for the welcome gidge.

Sonic Misfit,

"buy ANYTHING!"... well, believe me, I was really close to doing impuse purchases. Fortuanatly, I learned my lesson not to do that cause I was burned in the past.

The thing is, a lot of this stuff is quite expensive. I know I'll never know until I get something, but at the same time, I want to be sure I can at least filter out the junk from the viable stuff.

Mesh,

I've already compiled (in my head) at list of needs (and wants), So im okay with the basics...

One thing I'm sure of for now is I'm gonna be using a Audigy for any midi synthsis... for now... so midi is last priority.

I already have one of em flextoneIIXL amps so that covers any need for pod

For what I already have?... just my instruments, some mic's and a PC. (Don't worry about the speed of the PC, lets just say I'm up to date)

So, I got a long road ahead of me... I figure I have a $1000CAN budget a month.. which is worth.. what.. 5 bucks american? :) but anyways, thats enough for a slow build to a decent setup.

Thanks for the recommendations mind you, but, yeah, your right... there are a zillon products out there... thats why im here.. to narrow things down :)

-WildFire
 
You already have the audigy? If not.. spend the money on an Audiophile, they do MIDI too...
 
I would recomend the Roland Studio Pack. For $700 or less you get a digital mixer with effects , an 8X8 digital card and Emagic Logic software. I've been pretty impressed with the overall sound quality and for the price you cant beat the deal. Even if you upgrade later to a different platform you still have a great digital mixer to work with.
 
WildFire,

You are good with computers, right?
Built a good DAW for yourself. You will need a processor (AMD is about to drop prices again: Athlon XP 2000 - $246, XP 1900 - $182, XP 1800 - $126, XP 1700 - $102, XP 1600 - $99, XP 1500 - $95), mobo ($100), good CPU cooler ($40), fast memory and fast HDD. I am pretty sure that all other parts that you might need are lying somewhere around your house.
Then comes the important part: soundcard. If you are recording one channel at a time, consider Audiophile 2496 (can find around $150, even cheaper on ebay). It does not have mic preamp, though.
Recording software: Not cheap, but some LE editions may come bundled with souncard, like Audiophile.

That way you will start recording economically, and upgrade later, when you get better understanding of what you want.
 
Its amazing how my little (long rather) rant sparked a lot of suggestions. Its almost like me saying "what should I buy?"

But thanks non the less. I take it all into consideration... I already have some sort of direction, just need to find out some answers to questions.

If you want to answer them, check out the other thread I posted

Webstop,

AMD fan huh?

The parts I'm getting for my DAW are still pending, but one thing I'm sure of, is that it will be a P4.

I know the athlons are faster, better FPU performace. Scores higher fps in unreal, the best in every benchmark at a lower clock speed then a P4... blah blah blah. I know for myself that this is all true. I've built, tested and benchmarked hundreads of these systems....

BUT

AMDs in general are the most unstable CPUS out there. I've never see the amount of complaints, warranty claims and problems an AMD cpu gets with a intel processor.

Stability for me is key... Crashing bad, Stabiltiy good! :P

Anyhow, AMD's tend to have heat problems too... word of caution, do NOT take your heatsink off a AMD cpu while its running... unless you like the smell of burnt electronics... Intel chips have a built in protection mechanisim that provents them from burning to a pulp :)

Which ever the case is, All my computers are put together myself... They will NOT be my bottleneck for my DAW :)

Mesh,

Yeah, I got one already.. I get em for below dealer cost.. actually, I get em all below dealer cost... (it benefits to have worked in the field :) ) Too bad I have no Audio connections :( oh well...
 
"It all started with . . . "

Wildfire, that is the most inspiring introduction I have ever seen from a newbie. I read your post, and let me tell you . . . I laughed . . . I cried . . . it was better than "Cats."

Just messin' with ya. Welcome aboard.

As a general rule, we have a few established norms on this board you should probably know:

1) Do not insult the Studio Projects line of microphones, or the owner of the company will reply to your post within the minute and tell you just exactly why his microphones are so good, but that he's really not trying to sell anyone.

2) You should feel really bad if you start a thread and Gidge doesn't reply to it at some point with a link to something else. Even the lamest of threads are usually at least worthy of a token Gidge-link.

3) Please do not post a "best __ under $___ ?" (i.e. best kick-drum mic under $200, etc.) question or poll untill you've already exhausted the "search" function.

4) If you are using your computer to tweak your final mixes, do not call what you are doing "mastering." Otherwise, people with more resources and experience will insult you and say it's not really mastering. :)

And last but not least, here is a really helpful tip:

Although this is a site for home recording enthusiasts, there are a few "professionals" lurking around quite often. Their advice is usually quite helpful, and we value them a great deal. If you want some of their advice, then all you have to do is create a female username. Make it something cute like "Bunnygirl" or "Daisy." Nothing obvious like "hot teen cutie." They'll see through that.

They'll trip over themselves to answer every dumb question you can throw at them.

Good luck!
 
I am not gonna try to give you any more advice, but just to be fair to AMD, it is NOT any more unstable than Intel.
Problems people are having are from poor cooling and overheating. They run processor at 60C and above and then complain about craches and lockups. You are right, under the same circumstances Intel would not crash. It would just switch itself off.
Who in the right mind would take the heatsink off the running processor? Beats me. BTW either at Tomshardware or Anandtech websites there was a video how Athlon without cooling goes up in smoke in a matter of few seconds.
You of course can get whatever you want, P4 or Mac for that matter. Its your money.
 
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