Issues with ATR tape?

O

ofajen

Daddy-O Daddy-O Baby
Just got some comments on ATR tape from my friend Mitch Easter, who has been recording on tape for a long time and is quite meticulous when it comes to all things audio.

He tried out some ATR 1/4" tape bought last December on his Studer 2-track and had level "issues" where levels would drop like he had a bad relay or trimpot and then he'd clean the heads and things would be back to normal, even though there wasn't a lot of visible residue on the Q-tips. He switched back to some Zonal tape and the issues went away, so he concludes the ATR tape was causing the problem.

Anyway, his current opinion is that RMGI 911 and Zonal 700 are the best tapes in current production, unless ATR can/(has?) fixed this problem. Of course, for most of us, there really isn't any point in buying the ATR tape, since our machines aren't really designed to work at the levels the ATR tape is made for. Just thought I'd pass along another opinion, given the recent discussions on which tapes to use.

Cheers,

Otto
 
I'm a huge fan of Mitch Easter's band Let's Active and his production work. "the magic city" by Helium is one of my fav LPs from the 90s, and it pretty much goes without saying that REMs Murmur and Reckoning were masterfully produced (aside: i'd argue that without Easter and Don Dixon the seams in the REM's songwriting really began to show and they would never again sound as sharp as they did on their first two albums).

But on the tape front, here are my experiences:
I've been through about nine 2500' reels of RMGI SM 900 (some 1/2" and some 1/4") and i believe four 2500' reels of ATR (1" a couple 1/2" and 1/4").
I had two unequivocally defective reels from RMGI (which were replaced with no hassle)
One other reel of RMGI shed a bit more than i would liked and the test tones at the head were reading about a dB lower after extensive use. (This could potentially have been my machine's or my own fault). The 2 bad reels and the one borderline reel were all from the same batch.

The rest of the RMGI reels and all the ATR reels I've used have performed fine. In my experiences both SM 900 and ATR shed a bit more and require more frequent head cleaning than Quantegy 499 or 3M996 but that's a minor nuisance.

All in all, i'd say I'm happy with both RMGI and ATRs stuff; I have a slight preference for ATR but I wouldn't kick RMGI out of the proverbial bed for eating proverbial cookies.
 
ethyrvalve said:
One other reel of RMGI shed a bit more than i would liked and the test tones at the head were reading about a dB lower after extensive use. (This could potentially have been my machine's or my own fault). The 2 bad reels and the one borderline reel were all from the same batch.
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You don't happen to have that batch number by any chance?

I just picked up some 911 pancakes...
 
ethyrvalve said:
I've been through about nine 2500' reels of RMGI SM 900 (some 1/2" and some 1/4") and i believe four 2500' reels of ATR (1" a couple 1/2" and 1/4").
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Have you used either the new RMGI SM 911 or Zonal 700? BASF/EMTEC SM 911 and SM 468 are the two tapes I've tracked on recently. Haven't run out yet, to need to try the RMGI, but that will happen.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Have you used either the new RMGI SM 911 or Zonal 700? BASF/EMTEC SM 911 and SM 468 are the two tapes I've tracked on recently. Haven't run out yet, to need to try the RMGI, but that will happen.

Cheers,

Otto
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Hi Otto, I haven't tried RMGI's 911 or 468 yet nor any Zonal tapes. I got a couple NOS reels of EMTEC sm911 I haven't had a chance to try them yet. I did try some EMTEC sm468 and I loved it--beautiful slitting and shed free.
 
I guess I should add that Mitch said he really liked the sound of the ATR tape and thinks it's a great oxide formulation. Let's hope they make sure the shedding issues go away. :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
miroslav said:
You don't happen to have that batch number by any chance?

I just picked up some 911 pancakes...
Click to expand...
Sorry, there were actually 2 batch numbers where I had bad tape:
0900 B 095 351 4 70
0900b095331 34620
good luck!

PS does anyone know how to decode RMGIs number scheme? I gather the first 4 digits are the tape type...
 
I have had a few QC issues with Zonal 700. It's never shed, but I have had dropouts with it sometimes. Also there was a batch about two years ago which seemed to be slightly sticky. I went with RMGI for a bit since then, but I'm tempted to get some more 700 and see how they're doing.
 
miroslav said:
I thought Zonal folded awhile ago...?
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Sort of. Someone, probably a group of ex-employees, got the name, the formula and a shedload of NOS tape and boxes. They got someone to manufacture the tape to their specs and are selling it in the UK. Currently it's only being made in 1/4" format though.
 
It would be strange to have a tape manufacturer with 100% perfect batches, so I don’t worry about it too much unless the problem becomes a trend. I would hate to be the one discovering the trend though. :eek: I hope ATR gets it under control.
 
I've been testing RMG 468 on my newly recommissioned TEAC A-2300 SD and I've been happy with the sound and performance but there is a certain amount of loose shedding going on. However it seems to be from a take up reel I was using that was putting a lot of side to side tape drift on the takeup reel swing arm tensioner. I changed the reel and its much improved. As for residue on the tape heads and guides on the early passes there was a noticable amount but that's clearing too as the tape gets run more. I am testing this reel for lots of things such as continous re recording and play quality. Its holding up well.

That said ATR informed me that I could used ATR Studio Master on my TEAC to good effect. I haven't tried it yet but may soon. I haven't tried RMG 911 so I can't comment on its performance. The RMG 468 has a nice fat warm sound on my TEAC.
 
Beck said:
It would be strange to have a tape manufacturer with 100% perfect batches, so I don’t worry about it too much unless the problem becomes a trend. I would hate to be the one discovering the trend though. :eek: I hope ATR gets it under control.
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Why would it be strange to have 100% perfect tape batches? When I was doing a lot of reel to reel recording in the 60's & 70's I never once got a bad reel of tape. There was a time when 1200' of cheap tape cost $1.99 and had splices in it. But the stuff didn't disingergrate or gum up the machine. Reel to reel tape is an expensive niche market product and as such quality should be closely monitored and easily maintained since there isn't hundreds of millions of reels shipping every month like it once was.
 
I read this post and couldn't resist posting a response. First off I've had several bad experiences with RMG. The shed was horrid!!! I got a replacement after being asked to send them picks of my guides and heads. The replacement was a bit better but I still had problems. I bought a reel of ATR and have had NO problems since. I love the sound I get with my 38 with the ATR.
 
dodgeaspen said:
I read this post and couldn't resist posting a response. First off I've had several bad experiences with RMG. The shed was horrid!!! I got a replacement after being asked to send them picks of my guides and heads. The replacement was a bit better but I still had problems. I bought a reel of ATR and have had NO problems since. I love the sound I get with my 38 with the ATR.
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Isn't ATR thicker and a bit rougher on the heads though? I've got a roll of RMG 911 coming for my recently acquired TSR-8, so I'll let post up what happens with it. I've run LPR35 and 911 through my RT-909 with no shed, except from the slightly warped reel I was using.
 
Lance Lawson said:
Why would it be strange to have 100% perfect tape batches? When I was doing a lot of reel to reel recording in the 60's & 70's I never once got a bad reel of tape. There was a time when 1200' of cheap tape cost $1.99 and had splices in it. But the stuff didn't disingergrate or gum up the machine. Reel to reel tape is an expensive niche market product and as such quality should be closely monitored and easily maintained since there isn't hundreds of millions of reels shipping every month like it once was.
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Aren't you the lucky one? An occasional bad batch of tape is just reality and always has been in the 30 years I've been recording, in commercial and home environments. But then 100% in any field of manufacturing is unattainable, so we’re not just talking about tape. If any tape manufacturer pulled this off they would be the first. ;)
 
jjones1700 said:
Isn't ATR thicker and a bit rougher on the heads though? I've got a roll of RMG 911 coming for my recently acquired TSR-8, so I'll let post up what happens with it. I've run LPR35 and 911 through my RT-909 with no shed, except from the slightly warped reel I was using.
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My warped takeup reel was causing edge sheer issues on the swing arm guide. True running reels are important in so many ways.

It was suggested to me to go with thinner tape if possible since it's easier on the tape transport system. (read motors especially). Since our machines are all mostly out of production anything that can prolong the unit life should be strived for. If ATR is rougher on the heads I'd prefer to use RMG if its easier on the heads.
 
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