Is there anything wrong with using the recording compensated outputs?

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
Two different things.

Rob, what are you using to measure what tones come from the fingers vs the gear? What device? Its your imagination.
- and I tried to play Rick Parfitt's guitar. I couldn't even play the chords let alone sound like him, and I really tried. His guitar tech told me I was tickling it. I thought I was playing hard. His guitar, his settings. My fingers - rubbish!

Yeah rubbish, I have no idea what that story has anything to do with..If I was there , I would tune it open E. have him rake the strings. Then rake the strings myself. Comparing sound. You are discussing difference in articulation. You are not trying to sound the same, he is not instructing you showing what he did. Your example is blind.
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Absolutely not the same thing Lazer - your soul is in the fingers and your brain - so strumming an open chord isn't music. Your brain determines so many things. If your processing enhances or even distorts harmonics, if I play with my finger tips there are less harmonics, but if I play with my nails there are. The player really matters. Yes - to a degree we are talking about articulation - but that is the point surely? Two guitars, two amps - no processing at all. The two players play differently. Every single little thing. their fingers and their brains. The tools are not really important. It's the whole package, and that is why if I play your guitar I will not sound like you.

You also missed the point on the Status Quo example - his guitars were well known, he played with mega heavy strings and beat the hell out of the guitar with iron muscles. That sound can be got close to, but the guy who plays his parts now has to do them differently, and he does it well - he cannot simply pick up the old rig and become that guy it just never works. You want to take somebody else's settings and sound like them and you can't, but you won't accept it - you think something is wrong, you are so sure the settings are duplicated, yet you are not happy. It's just because they are your fingers. I know you disagree, but I can't see your idea at all.
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
- his guitars were well known, he played with mega heavy strings and beat the hell out of the guitar with iron muscle
Don't use ridiculous or complex examples. It only proves my point. How drastic of an example you need for your case.
r- your soul is in the fingers and your brain -
As long as you can prove what comes from where and measure it. I don't believe in ghosts, UFO's or fairies..

so strumming an open chord isn't music.

Correct! Its the sound of the gear!
 

ecc83

Well-known member
Now them as know me here will I think attest that I am a pretty cynical, tekky, pedantic sod? I don't believe in any of the BS spouted about audio amps, pre amps 'warmf' and other such ***t...But, in this case Rob is much nearer the truth than LBF.

To follow a logical path through a valve guitar pre amp*. The first stage mostly just amplifies fairly cleanly by some 30 to 50 times. There is then usually a 'voicing' network, C&Rs that modify the response into the next stage which can be distorted to a greater or lesser degree but the harmonics produced will depend upon the spectrum fed to it. Now different players will naturally produce different harmonic 'shapes' depending on the moment to moment impact on the string and how they 'micro-damp' the strin at the fret...SHOOT! The different pressures individual players apply to the frets will change the intonation mSec to mSec. In short, the sound you get from an amp depends upon the notes you put in and the relative levels of the complex harmonics they contain and no two players do that the same IMHO.

Even with the acoustic piano the people that know these things can say "yup, that's Andy Previn playing Chopin". How?

*'We' won't get into 'power valve sound'. They make much less difference than people say (especially those wat sell 'em!)

Dave.
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
Works on bass. Works with Solid State ADA B500B bass amp. Turned mains way down.

Works on keyboards. Works with Mackie PA 1400i Solid state speaker outs. I turned the mains way down so as not to fry it.

Works on voice too.

Need to balance the levels out better..No more thin recordings.
 
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TalismanRich

Well-known member
You still have a Mackie 1400i that works? Mine craps out on one channel. Had it in for service, things were working... took it to one karaoke night for a buddy, and one channel goes belly up. Supposedly there are issues with ribbon cables inside as well as other issues. Rather than taking it in again, I ended up buying a QSC RMX1450 which has been rock solid for years.

The Mackie is busy making sure the shelf in the basement doesn't float off into space! I thought about using it for a paper weight, but I don't have that much paper.
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
The one 'with Suhr' *besides being played in a different key* has a reverb/delay on it that the other doesn't, and there are some low-mids in there. If you are happy with that for $500 ....
2 frets up , big whoop.

Yes, listen to how awesome the reverb reacts with it. Feed it the effects, the keyboard, the bass, and it comes out strong and full. It needs no power supply. And only has one or two knobs. No parameters to adjust. Just on preset rails. No latency unlike a modeler.

This leads me to , what is an IR loader? Do I think these results could be obtained without the Suhr Reactive Load? Yes. Todd Leon hinted at these, I did not realize how much difference they made. The Suhr can take me right to the rubber line.
 
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LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
If you are happy with that for $500 ....
It should have been made in stereo. They could have done a TRS single input even.

I don't even know what an IR loader is. Is it worth $500? Sure why not.....But I got to get a second one. Ouch. Be gentle servicing my bank account.

Is it an EQ? A compressor? An HPF / LPF filter set? A load?

Hey man, it works. I didnt believe it would..Kudos to the Suhr Team..

I almost staple gunned $400 of egg crates to my walls..The Suhr was a better choice.
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
An IR is an Impulse Response. Basically, you measure how a particular device responses to a quick impulse. Something like a speaker doesn't mirror the input signal perfectly. It takes time for the cone to start to move, time for it to return to rest. It may ring for a few cycles after you stop the signal. It won't respond to all frequencies equally and there will be phase variations at different frequencies.

An Impulse Response tries to map all these variables which allows you to construct a model which is supposed to reproduce the original. Then the idea is that you apply the IR to a signal of, say, a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker mic'd with an SM57 and a Royer Ribbon in a great room to a raw guitar signal in the DAW. It adds the "sound" of the V30 to your signal without having to use a V30, mics or rooms. All you need is a way to add the characteristics to your raw guitar, either as a VST or a hardware/software device.
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
No, not just EQ. Reread what I said. It measures time response, phase, overshoot, damping, and depending on what you are measuring, it could include echo/room reverb and distortion.

You can read up on all this stuff on the web. Just Google "Impulse Response".
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
Just the amps into the Suhr into the Apollo mic 1. ADA Mp-1 with 20/20 and GK MBE (set at 100w 8 ohm with internal speaker off). Bass turns out nicer through it.

Everything is nice and chunky. Most of it could be shaped further with ReaEQ or something. Progress.

Not enough time. Slightly out of time too. This one is -16db mix
https://soundcloud.com/mark-c-746521042%2Feasy-002
This one is -3db mix.
https://soundcloud.com/mark-c-746521042%2Feasy-005 Which is better? The louder one?

Rich, I searched ' Load Box' a bit too. It does not really say how it is changing it. A set of capactive, inductive, and resistive elements to create a passive fully analog model. ANALOG!
 
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