is there a BIG difference between a sbLive and recording card?

[theshaggyfreak]

Re: Re: Re: Re: is there a BIG difference between a sbLive and recording card?

You keep throwing this noise gate into the equation. A noise gate only helps when there is no source signal playing. It can't do anything when the sound source is playing. If there is noise going on while your synth/guitar/whatever is still playing, a noise gate can't do anything for you, so work on getting rid of the noise at the source (or on the soundcard).

Exactly. The noise gate shouldn't even be in the equation of if it's a good sound card for what you're doing. You can put a noise gate on any sound card and get that result.

 

[MaxB]

Ok ok...

 

[MaxB]

Re: Re: Re: Re: is there a BIG difference between a sbLive and recording card?

PS - I did listen to your orchestral recordings, it wasn't too bad, but I think you would notice a big difference with a better 24-bit soundcard. I think the point we should all take home is that a SB will get you decent results, especially for someone just starting out, BUT you will get better sonics with a better soundcard!

Once upon a time only 16bits soundcard were on the market.
And 44100/16 bit was a standard. Probably a lot of music was recorded and mixed at 44.1/16bit. Well, 24bit is better but the difference can be noticed only by HAL9000 and Home Recording BBS Audio Maniacs (I'm an Audio Maniac too, I think)

About my orchestral recording: it was a quick recording I done only to test the orchestral sounds.

Listen Here:

All these songs were recorded with SB128 (!) and SBLive.
I know it's not the max but I think it's not bad at all.

 

[brzilian]

MaxB,

There comes a time when you agree to dissagree - you have gone beyond that and are making a fool of yourself. I suggest you stop now and save some kind of face. Just get off the SB Live is all you need rant - nobody wants to hear it.

I am saying this from personal experience - it ain't worth it. Go off and be happy with your SB Live recordings. Everybody has a choice and we choose not to use a SB.

 

[RichHead]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: is there a BIG difference between a sbLive and recording card?

About my orchestral recording: it was a quick recording I done only to test the orchestral sounds.

Listen Here:

All these songs were recorded with SB128 (!) and SBLive.
I know it's not the max but I think it's not bad at all.

It does sound decent MaxB. But then, MIDI (or softsynth) recording is very different from using microphones to actually get the sounds from real instruments. I think for that, you typically try to get the best sound you can without altering it much beforehand...i.e. noise gates, EQ, compression......Samples are a different beast man. But of course, I am sure you will get the last post on this thread no matter what.

 

[bleyrad]

I started on an SBLive. I now have a MOTU 1224.

The MOTU sounds significantly better (and it's NOT just the noise level - where are you getting this from? have you ever tried a high-end card?).
That said, it's totally possible to get decent results from the SBLive with a bit of time. But that's what it takes: more time and effort, and even then, you're limited to good results in a narrow variety of things. And you have to have the skill to get a good sub-mix going if you're recording more than 2 tracks at once (like drums).


Here's a recording I did on my SBLive a while ago with a couple 57's and a Rode NT1 (with real drums):

Here's a recording I recently did on the MOTU (sampled drums this time though):

Even I have a hard time saying which one sounds "better"... they sound different, but the MOTU recording is not automatically better. The final sound quality comes down to some many different factors, almost all of them being more important than the soundcard.
However, it was a lot more productive to work with. I can hear things easier and mix a lot faster on the MOTU, and I can record 8 channels. That is a BIG plus.
Also, quieter things do sound better right away on the MOTU.

 

[MaxB]

MaxB,

There comes a time when you agree to dissagree - you have gone beyond that and are making a fool of yourself. I suggest you stop now and save some kind of face. Just get off the SB Live is all you need rant - nobody wants to hear it.

I am saying this from personal experience - it ain't worth it. Go off and be happy with your SB Live recordings. Everybody has a choice and we choose not to use a SB.

I'm not sayin you must use a SBLive! You can use what you want to record your acoustic berimbau. I 've only tried to explain my points of view but if this is your answer... What can I say? If you are not interested to talk about that you are not obliged.

I know what I'm saying. I know that what I'm talking about sounds extreme. It's extreme. Do you want me to say that you are right? Do you want me to say that a SBLive it's a piece of shit?? Ok: SBLive it's a piece of shit.

I think the results of the RMAA test could be interesting...

Well, anyway it's the last post. My last SBLive related post on this BBS.

Be happy, all you people, with your music.

That's all folks!

 

[MaxB]

Even I have a hard time saying which one sounds "better"... they sound different, but the MOTU recording is not automatically better. The final sound quality comes down to some many different factors, almost all of them being more important than the soundcard. However, it was a lot more productive to work with. I can hear things easier and mix a lot faster on the MOTU, and I can record 8 channels. That is a BIG plus.
Also, quieter things do sound better right away on the MOTU.

The previous message was not my last message. THIS is my last message!

Bleyard in your words there's the answer to all the previous questions. Brzilian, ChristopherM, etc read what Bleyrad said.

"The final sound quality comes down to some many different factors, almost all of them being more important than the soundcard."

I totally agree. This is what I've tried to say since from the beginning.

STOP.

 

[Jotosuds]

for reals.. out of control. lol.

thanks a lot richhead and scottgman. THAT was what i was looking for when i started that thread.

peace and prosperity to you all

 

[Polaris20]

Understood?? No one can ear the diference between a SBLive! and your Delta...

MaxB

A statement both bold and ignorant at the same time.

Are you saying live instruments recorded through the same pre's with the same mics once through the Delta and once through a live will be of same quality?

What about how the converters convert the audio? What about the s/n ratio?

The way in which an audio wave is sampled is just as important as how many times it is sampled.

If there were no audible difference between a Creative card and a Delta (or PT HD, RME, Apogee, Lucid, Lynx, etc.) than today's hits would be recorded on an Audigy, and in between takes the engineers would be enjoying a brisk game of Half Life listening on the same card.

But that's not the case.

So that leads me to believe that either you have stumbled onto a truth that we (both hobbyists and professionals alike) are all blind to, or you're hearing is impaired.

I would tend to lean towards the latter.

I am not trying to be insulting here, but let's be realistic.

I have an article in an old Recording magazine, in regard to the importance of converters, and how they are not all created equal, hence the difference in price and the corresponding results.

If you like, I can see if I can find it.

 

[Polaris20]

I started on an SBLive. I now have a MOTU 1224.

The MOTU sounds significantly better (and it's NOT just the noise level - where are you getting this from? have you ever tried a high-end card?).
That said, it's totally possible to get decent results from the SBLive with a bit of time. But that's what it takes: more time and effort, and even then, you're limited to good results in a narrow variety of things. And you have to have the skill to get a good sub-mix going if you're recording more than 2 tracks at once (like drums).


Here's a recording I did on my SBLive a while ago with a couple 57's and a Rode NT1 (with real drums):

Here's a recording I recently did on the MOTU (sampled drums this time though):

Even I have a hard time saying which one sounds "better"... they sound different, but the MOTU recording is not automatically better. The final sound quality comes down to some many different factors, almost all of them being more important than the soundcard.
However, it was a lot more productive to work with. I can hear things easier and mix a lot faster on the MOTU, and I can record 8 channels. That is a BIG plus.
Also, quieter things do sound better right away on the MOTU.

Many of us would not be able to hear the difference perhaps, without hearing the actual wave from which this mp3 is taken from.

Judging pro gear based upon a compressed mp3 I feel is difficult, if not impossible.

 

[MaxB]

A statement both bold and ignorant at the same time.

The evidence shows that you have not read this thread.
So, you think I go out to the supermarket to pick a SBLive and then start to post Delirium Tremens-like messages here?
Do you think I'm a 15 years old samples-playback entusiast?

No.

If you are interested to know something more about SB & EMU10k compatible cards take a look here: http://www.driverheaven.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67

I know WHAT is a SB and WHAT is a Delta...
I'm not a beginner and I'm not a fool.

Anyway I have no interest to continue this thing. It's not constructive to have a thread with 80 replies and 1000 views if all the posts are like this. Now, we are into flaming and this is not the topic of this forum so it is good to stop here.

 

[Polaris20]

The evidence shows that you have not read this thread.
So, you think I go out to the supermarket to pick a SBLive and then start to post Delirium Tremens-like messages here?
Do you think I'm a 15 years old samples-playback entusiast?

No.

If you are interested to know something more about SB & EMU10k compatible cards take a look here: http://www.driverheaven.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67

I know WHAT is a SB and WHAT is a Delta...
I'm not a beginner and I'm not a fool.

Anyway I have no interest to continue this thing. It's not constructive to have a thread with 80 replies and 1000 views if all the posts are like this. Now, we are into flaming and this is not the topic of this forum so it is good to stop here.

What difference does it make if I have read the entire thread? I don't see how these statements

Understood?? No one can ear the diference between a SBLive! and your Delta...

No, there is no difference at all. No one can recognize the difference between a SBLive recording and a Pro-Card recording.

My friend... What I'm trying to say is that if you buy a SBlaster or a Delta or whatever you want, it's just the same. The only thing you need to have "pro" recordings it's "pro" equipment. In a home studio you don't need a Delta... The only advantage are the extra ins/outs, but if you have a decent external mixer you don't need these extra ins/outs.

Can be misunderstood. If they were, enlighten me. Tell me how to take it any other way than literally. That is, no one can hear the difference between these two cards.

 

[MaxB]

What difference does it make if I have read the entire thread? I don't see how this statement
Can be misunderstood. If it was, enlighten me. Tell me how to take it any other way than literally. That is, no one can hear the difference between these two cards.

Yes, confirm. No one can hear the difference. Sorry all you golden-ear wannabe... No one can hear the difference. I could write it on the marble. The difference it's so subtle that if you can hear the difference we are into Sci-Fi. When we have the final mix, after the sound has been treated in every possible way, you can't hear the difference. When you listen to a song on the radio are you able to say what recorder-soundcard was used in the recording process?? Here we are into paranormal. It all depends on the skills of the musician/engineer. That's all. You can say that 24bit is better than 16bit... Ok, what when they start to produce 32bit and then 64bit soundcards? You will start to say that 24bit it's shit? What about yours already recorded-mixed and broadcasted songs? They need to be re-tracked??

And then we must think that we are in the digital domain!
C'mon! There's a lot of people out there, analog purist, ready to swear upon their mother's head that digital it's bad, digital it's shit. And they say that they can listen the difference. Well.

When you hear a song your reaction is: "this was recorded with a xyz card!" or "Mmmm, this song was recorded in 16bit..."??

About my statement: if you read the whole thread (also the other thread. I have posted a link) you'll see I'm talking about a Live with KXDrivers.

My friends. It's not the mark of your soundcard, effects, processors, etc, that make your songs bad or good. It's you!


MaxB

 

[Polaris20]

Yes, confirm. No one can hear the difference. Sorry all you golden-ear wannabe... No one can hear the difference. I could write it on the marble. The difference it's so subtle that if you can hear the difference we are into Sci-Fi. When we have the final mix, after the sound has been treated in every possible way, you can't hear the difference. When you listen to a song on the radio are you able to say what recorder-soundcard was used in the recording process?? Here we are into paranormal. It all depends on the skills of the musician/engineer. That's all. You can say that 24bit is better than 16bit... Ok, what when they start to produce 32bit and then 64bit soundcards? You will start to say that 24bit it's shit? What about yours already recorded-mixed and broadcasted songs? They need to be re-tracked??

And then we must think that we are in the digital domain!
C'mon! There's a lot of people out there, analog purist, ready to swear upon their mother's head that digital it's bad, digital it's shit. And they say that they can listen the difference. Well.

When you hear a song your reaction is: "this was recorded with a xyz card!" or "Mmmm, this song was recorded in 16bit..."??

About my statement: if you read the whole thread (also the other thread. I have posted a link) you'll see I'm talking about a Live with KXDrivers.

My friends. It's not the mark of your soundcard, effects, processors, etc, that make your songs bad or good. It's you!


MaxB

Alrighty then! A couple things are clear:

1. you feel there's no difference between gamer shit cards and prosumer or pro audio cards.
2. Nearly everyone disagrees, and has offered proof why your "opinion" is extremely skewed.
3. You say you won't post anymore to defend this point of view, yet here you are, continuing to post.

I read the whole thread. I still don't see how I can view your opinion any other way.

I must admit, I skimmed through all the bullshit about Fiats.

I checked out the link you provided. Sorry, I don't have the time to go through all the threads from a bunch of SB followers. I'm happy that SB cards are good enough for you, and for them. They aren't enough for me or anyone else here.

 

[ChristopherM]

The final sound quality comes down to some many different factors, almost all of them being more important than the soundcard.

Yeah...but my point was that I got a better sound with a better soundcard with all else being the same.

 

[MaxB]

Alrighty then! A couple things are clear:

1. you feel there's no difference between gamer shit cards and prosumer or pro audio cards.
2. Nearly everyone disagrees, and has offered proof why your "opinion" is extremely skewed.
3. You say you won't post anymore to defend this point of view, yet here you are, continuing to post.

I read the whole thread. I still don't see how I can view your opinion any other way.

I must admit, I skimmed through all the bullshit about Fiats.

I checked out the link you provided. Sorry, I don't have the time to go through all the threads from a bunch of SB followers. I'm happy that SB cards are good enough for you, and for them. They aren't enough for me or anyone else here.

1. SBLive it's a perfect copy (without extra inputs) of the EMU APS. So It's not a "gamer shit card". Creative it's a gamer-shit company. EMU technology (now Creative) it's not shit. Yes SBLive! it was built to be a toy. But it's not a toy.

2. No one offered proof of nothing in this thread. The only thing that has been said is that I'm an ignorant. The only one who provided proofs am I!. I have posted the results of the RMAA test, that it's worth to be commented. But no one shows interest, because no one it's able to understand what is reported in the test. 90% of you talks without knowing what you're saying. You are simply repeating the lesson. That's all. For example: you don't know nothing about the EMU 10k. Everyone into audio and soundcards would be wet in his pants reading the results of the RMAA knowing it was done with a Live. But no one shows interest because no one here understand nothing about that.

3. I said I don't want to post if no one is interested to talk in a more intelligent way. Just like I said before, the only thing you can do is to take some tests, instead of talking like this.

Well, now you can go to play with your toys. Remember to turn on the edirol speakers.

MaxB

 

[Polaris20]

1. SBLive it's a perfect copy (without extra inputs) of the EMU APS. So It's not a "gamer shit card". Creative it's a gamer-shit company. EMU technology (now Creative) it's not shit. Yes SBLive! it was built to be a toy. But it's not a toy.

2. No one offered proof of nothing in this thread. The only thing that has been said is that I'm an ignorant. The only one who provided proofs am I!. I have posted the results of the RMAA test, that it's worth to be commented. But no one shows interest, because no one it's able to understand what is reported in the test. 90% of you talks without knowing what you're saying. You are simply repeating the lesson. That's all. For example: you don't know nothing about the EMU 10k. Everyone into audio and soundcards would be wet in his pants reading the results of the RMAA knowing it was done with a Live. But no one shows interest because no one here understand nothing about that.

3. I said I don't want to post if no one is interested to talk in a more intelligent way. Just like I said before, the only thing you can do is to take some tests, instead of talking like this.

Well, now you can go to play with your toys. Remember to turn on the edirol speakers.

MaxB

I'm so sorry, I wasn't aware EMU was the be all, end all of pro audio.

Back to the drawing board, I guess. You're right, no one here knows what we're talking about. Neither do Aardvark, M Audio, Digidesign, etc. because clearly everything can be done on a wonderful EMU product cleverly disguised as a crappy gamer's card.

 

[brzilian]

Wow MaxB!! You really don't know when to quit, do you?

For the record, Creative bought E-Mu systems and Ensoniq a long time ago, so they all are the same company.

 

[Polaris20]

By the way, I looked through the other thread you linked to Max......

*searches for hip waders for massive amounts of bullshit*

I also checked out the KX site. Kinda of reminds me of Apple when the G5 came out.