Im gonna get kicked off the forum for this but...

[Emeric]

But in general drum sounds really do seem to be one of the really difficult things to pull off. If people are recording with real acoustic drums maybe they should seriously look at using samples and drumagog.

Real drums are better in all cases, even if the recording of them is sub-par. I'd hope people would keep experimenting with mics / instruments etc. rather than just 'sample replace' it.

Drumagog works ok for KICK, but any other part of the kit, forget it, unless it's very simple, un-dynamic drum playing.

I'll never understand the fascination with drums that have to sound like something unnatural. KICK BAMB KICK BAMB
I suppose a reflection of current (and past) music styles and what is expected.

All fine in some productions, but drums are an instrument, not a special effect.

Drumagog works ok for KICK, but any other part of the kit, forget it, unless it's very simple, un-dynamic drum playing.

All boils down to what style of music one is into and after I suppose. Not raging out on you rage, but your post kinda irked me a bit.

 

[tjohnston]

Another thing I have heard in the mixing clinic that is screaming amature is acoustic guitar. I dont know what it is but I think its called transients. When the guitar is plucked or strummed the very begining of the sound is very very loud. After that the sound greatly drops in level. The very beginning of the note is way to loud for a split second and then it dies. I find that in order to actually hear the song I have to turn the volume up. That makes the transients extremely loud and annoying. I have to turn the volume up and stand in the other room just to even things out. That is just not good. How can that be avoided? That type of thing just ruins the song. In response to darwins thread. I believe that getting a truely professional sound takes some real money especialy if your recording a jazz combo or classical music or rock drums. But what if Im recording something extremely simple. For instance some acoustic guitars, various light percussion ex "shakers" vocal and bass guitar. If I was recording straight to tape and using the mixer just to monitor then why couldnt I get away with few good peices of gear. For instance 2 shure sm-81 Rnp preamp, or mabey great river m-1. Dragonfly for vocal and direct imput for bass. Sm57 for snare. Ihave heard all this gear and have liked it. Would that not give me a chance of achieving something pro sounding?
I need something that would allow me to capture the beauty of acoustic guitar. I want to hear the strings, the wood, the fingers sliding across the strings and all the delicate subtle frequencies that are lacking in homerecordings. Too many times I hear someone randomly strumming an acoustic guitar with huge amounts of cheap reverb. All comments and ideas welcome.

 

[vicevursa]

...I havent started recording yet...

How nice. I'm eagerly awaiting to hear your first recording. I just know that yours will be near perfect, lo fi or hi fi! It takes a little bit of courage to post your own music knowing the sound probably isn't "pro quality" to begin with and have complete strangers critique your material. Nevermind the fact that you might have put weeks or longer to write the material in the first place, then, the time spent just trying to get the kick and bass to gel with each other all the while making sure every other instrument had its own sonic space in the mix. Then you post it and have it ripped to shreds. (Hopefully, you will learn something and go back and do it again.)
With your first post, I expect nothing short of "pro quality"! Sonically, you should be on point. Since you are taking the time to soak all this information on how to record before you actually record, your skills should be far beyond exceptional. You won't even need to waste time buying anything more than radio shack mics, a behringer mixer and any 16bit soundcard. It's all about technique, you should be able to make that sound good. I'm sure if a "pro" came to my house and mixed on my humble equipment, surely, damn near "pro quality" would result! That "pro" knows all the tricks that I have yet to learn. All the tricks people on this board impart to us lowly homerecorders. It should be no problem for him, right?
And, of course, musically, your first recording should feature world class musianship at every instrument including vocals. I would hate for something like imperfect timing on the drums, not so perfect chops on keys or guitar, or good forbid - one note sung out of tune detract from your perfect first post! You wouldn't find that in "pro quality" music...
I believe it was Toki who said something like that there was a big difference between "thinking and doing"! You my, my friend, have done quite a bit of thinking. Why don't you lace up your boots and get here in the trenches with us and start doing! You might find that this whole business of home recording is a little more than just buy a better preamp and mic...


Vice

 

[chrisharris]

In response to darwins thread. I believe that getting a truely professional sound takes some real money ...

I give up.

 

[tjohnston]

laughing....Im aggravating you arnt I. Sorry, just trying to make informed and claculated decisions.

 

[RichHead]

You know what tjohnson? Fuck commercial quality CD's.....I have been hanging around here for a little while (mostly reading and taking it all in), I would take the WORST recording posted on the mp3 clinic over the BEST commercial CD.

To me, being imperfect shows many things. And really, outside of commercial CD's, you can't hear that quality too often. Lenny Kravitz live doesn't sound like his CD. Neither does No Doubt. Neither does Pink, Neither does Beastie Boys. You get my point yet?

What I hear in the clinic is "real". Most of those people I listen to have heart, and I'll be damned if I can't sit through the worst of it and love it.

I heard a recording from some guy that said they recorded live with a lapel mic they purchased from Best Buy. And I liked it. I don't hear bad recording, I hear people...sometimes playing their guts out.

Get the music out, fuck those that need a retail CD in their hands to hear the beauty......

 

[Jamal Bucket]

You know what tjohnson? Fuck commercial quality CD's.....I have been hanging around here for a little while (mostly reading and taking it all in), I would take the WORST recording posted on the mp3 clinic over the BEST commercial CD.

To me, being imperfect shows many things. And really, outside of commercial CD's, you can't hear that quality too often. Lenny Kravitz live doesn't sound like his CD. Neither does No Doubt. Neither does Pink, Neither does Beastie Boys. You get my point yet?

What I hear in the clinic is "real". Most of those people I listen to have heart, and I'll be damned if I can't sit through the worst of it and love it.

I heard a recording from some guy that said they recorded live with a lapel mic they purchased from Best Buy. And I liked it. I don't hear bad recording, I hear people...sometimes playing their guts out.

Get the music out, fuck those that need a retail CD in their hands to hear the beauty......

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE MY NEW BEST FREIND...RICH HEAD!!!:

thanks for that!...ill be the first to admit that my "sound" sucks ...but i also dont aspire to get a great sound at home...and altho the "clinic" is technically for mixing advice and tips...for some of us...its just a place to be heard ..im always more interested in how a song makes me feel then what fuckin reverb they used on the rythym guitar on the second chorus........


very cool

jamal

 

[chrisharris]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE MY NEW BEST FREIND...RICH HEAD!!!:

Thank GOD...finally, the albatross of being Jamal's best friend is lifted.

Enjoy, Rich...I suggest changing your fake name immediately.

 

[darwin]

I believe that getting a truely professional sound takes some real money especialy if your recording a jazz combo or classical music or rock drums. But what if Im recording something extremely simple. For instance some acoustic guitars, various light percussion ex "shakers" vocal and bass guitar. If I was recording straight to tape and using the mixer just to monitor then why couldnt I get away with few good peices of gear. For instance 2 shure sm-81 Rnp preamp, or mabey great river m-1. Dragonfly for vocal and direct imput for bass. Sm57 for snare. Ihave heard all this gear and have liked it. Would that not give me a chance of achieving something pro sounding?

Yes, you would get a chance at doing that because that is some pretty decent gear. However, in all likelyhood, your first recordings are going to be something that you don't really like, and if you post your recordings, and you don't piss everybody off on the BBS, you might get a chance at some valuable feedback on how to improve your mixes. Unless you are friends with Rick Ruben or Scott Martin and they come and hang out at your place, you are going to need some help from others on how to improve.

I think you should spend the money on the gear, apologize to those folks who took offense to you, and get busy making some music. It's not that easy to do, and you will understand why there are bad recordings out there.

 

[subtractor]

After reading the title of your thread, I was hoping for a little more.

 

[Kramer]

Move along folks..........nothing to see here.......this whole thread was based on listening to lo fi streams of homewrecker recordings.

 

[RichHead]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE MY NEW BEST FREIND...RICH HEAD!!!:

thanks for that!...ill be the first to admit that my "sound" sucks ...but i also dont aspire to get a great sound at home...and altho the "clinic" is technically for mixing advice and tips...for some of us...its just a place to be heard ..im always more interested in how a song makes me feel then what fuckin reverb they used on the rythym guitar on the second chorus........


very cool

jamal

I finally made a friend on this message board? Well, don't get offended if I DO change my name Jamal. j/k

 

[crosstudio]

Move along folks..........nothing to see here.......this whole thread was based on listening to lo fi streams of homewrecker recordings.

even still,

i agree with most of what tjohnson has said:

1) our overall job of recording/mixing/mastering is sub par to the people who have been doing it as a profession with professional gear.

my response:
i am using reference CDs so that i can see the goal that i'm running towards. i'm also using a spec analyzer so i can visually see the difference between my hip-hop/r&b and commercial hip-hop/r&b EQ.

2) our overall job of creating realistic sounding drum tracks is subpar to professional recordings with properly mic'd drums recorded with great mics.

my response:
i am careful to only do things in my drum sequences that a real drummer could do with his/her 2 arms and 2 legs. the drum sounds are only going to be as good as my drum machine (asr-x) but there are some mixing tricks and fx that can be used to help.

3) if we use the better choices of semi-pro gear (sm81, rnp, great river, etc..) we'll get results approaching the professional studios once we learn how to use that gear effectively. we may end up with a polished turd, but polished it will be.

my response:
i got an AT4033 microphone, an FMR RNP and a fairly good D/A/D and sound card (Tango24/Wavecenter).

4) our overall job of recording acoustic guitar is subpar because either our playing is not even handed, or we aren't compressing the transients of our uneven playing.

my response:
i'm purchasing 2 shure sm81 microphones to make my classical and steel string guitar recordings better. (i'm selling my sony dtc-a7 dat and sr-jv80 orch I card on ebay to help fund the purchase).

 

[A1A2]

come on now, guys....

I kinda agree with tj here. I mean, this place is full of wonderful people who are informative, helpful and supportive. But, tj, while being a completely newb, is one unbaised judge from the consummer's point of view. Regardless of the lo-fi or hi-fi he listened to, he at least picked up the compression problem about that acoustic issue. He is really listening!

let's say if your goal of recording isn't just posting mp3s here and share them with friends, you will then be dealing with real greenhorns like tj, who doesn't know/care about what you had to go through to get that "sound". They only wanna hear what's been set as the "standard" in the daily life.

About Rich's comment on "realness", I dunno, the big boys in the clinic all sound pretty radio-ready to me, and I certainly have no problem with that. Let's say if Macle or Erland one day go big, shall we treat them as "commercial, non-emotional, not-real" then?? and start complaining about their stuff being too compressed, popy and so on?

We are discriminating against musicians here while disregarding what they went thru to get up there!!!

The clinic is awsome, but I have noticed that it's a social circle also, so, TJ, popularity there does count, too...

I am the next volunteer to get bashed

AL

 

[scottboyher]

Both, taking the time to download it is better but if its a crappy recording it still sounds well... crappy. Dont get me wrong Im not bashing home recording I just want to know what to expect before I drop a few grand on equipment and room treatment. I agree with the knowlege and skill thing though. Im not backing down from my orginal statement that a lot of music made in home studios sucks. Im kinda sounding like SWEETNUBS arent I.

Why drop any money on equipment if all you are going to get is crap? I don't understand you? You tell us that all the music in the clinic is crap yet you are going to get into home recording. WTF?

Why bother?

1. I don't post in the clinic to impress your ass.

2. I have no desire to sound like a professional CD. I just want to be the best I can be. That is my goal and I hope that doesn't upset you being a pro and all.

3. If I had to play what is on the radio today I would puke.

4. I can't wait to hear your first clinic post.. It better blow everyone away...

5. I came real close to telling you to fuck off but I didn't because I may not be hearing you right..

 

[Jagular]

laughing....Im aggravating you arnt I. Sorry, just trying to make informed and claculated decisions.

Just a friendly hint. There are better ways to get the information you seek. You are coming across as a first class ass IMHO. (and I really mean this in a friendly manner…you know you catch more flies with honey…).

Incidentally, I disagree with you. I’ve heard some really first rate sounding stuff here. Of course we are all judging by listening to mp3’s so I suppose the stuff I like could sound like ass if I were to get the actual uncompressed versions.

 

[chessrock]

The very beginning of the note is way to loud for a split second and then it dies. I find that in order to actually hear the song I have to turn the volume up. That makes the transients extremely loud and annoying. I have to turn the volume up and stand in the other room just to even things out. That is just not good. How can that be avoided?

Proper strumming technique. Strum evenly -- like you're happy with life -- not like you're angry, or playing for someone who's hearing-impared.

And use less attack and release times on your compressor. Longer attack and release times can sometimes sound too "transienty," just as you described you didn't like. Especially when dealing with overly-dynamic players.

This is much more of an ear and technique issue than anything else.

I have heard all this gear and have liked it. Would that not give me a chance of achieving something pro sounding?

If your technique isn't dead-on solid, your instruments don't sound wonderful to begin with, your room isn't well-treated, and your recording skills are novice level, then it doesn't matter what you're working with -- it will still very likely sound like ass.

I need something that would allow me to capture the beauty of acoustic guitar. I want to hear the strings, the wood, the fingers sliding across the strings and all the delicate subtle frequencies that are lacking in homerecordings.

Start out with a gorgeous-sounding guitar that sounds exactly the way you want a guitar to sound. Play it in a room that compliments it well . . . play with impeccable technique. Next, grab a decent mic or two and figure out where to point them so you can hear all these things you want to hear . . . and you're about 99% there.

 

[chrisharris]

.

And use less attack and release times on your compressor. Longer attack and release times can sometimes sound too "transienty."

I was gonna' say that, but I'm not participating in this thread anymore

(besides, I figured he was talking about me...I use LLLLLlOOOOOOOOooooonnngggg attacks on acoustics to get that "radio ready" sound we all crave...LOL.

 

[therage!]

Re: come on now, guys....

Let's say if Macle or Erland one day go big, shall we treat them as "commercial, non-emotional, not-real" then?? and start complaining about their stuff being too compressed, popy and so on?

AL

Well if the "mastering" engineer of the commercial record destroy's it then yes I'll be complaining. It's amazing to me how much shit I here being produced by major labels. We all know about the level's wars that have been going on and what it's doing to recordings. One thing I would really like to know is how some of the big name mastering engineers think about the shit they have created. Can they take themselves seriously? I guess it may come down to getting paid or not getting paid. I would love to ba able to sit down with an engineer that is trying to win the level war and go through each song on his mastered CD and have him explain to me why his CD sounds like total shit. I have heard numerous songs in the clinic that are sonically much better than some of the major label stuff. I would like nothing more than to see all of the major labels die off. Maybe (but I doubt it) then we could get music back to what it should be. One sad thing about all this insanity is the kids growing up on this shit! I feel better now!

 

[chrisharris]

I think I'm getting old, because I actually caught myself sounding like my Dad this past weekend (well, in my head, anyway). I'm driving back from a gig in Houston, and listening to the radio... I don't live in a town that has a serious "rock" station, so I always enjoy "the big city" when I go, LOL.

Anyway, about listening to about 10 songs in a row from bands that I couldn't distinguish, I found myself saying:

It all sounds the same...every band is a clone of either "Blink 182" or "Linkin Park." It just all sounds the same. Don't get me wrong, I actually like both bands (and I admit it freely), but variety is the spice of life, eh? I still like "3 Doors Down," though...people say they sound like Creed... okay. Wow, I'm totally talking to myself, lol.