chrisharris
King of Bling
Okay, now I'm just convinced we're dealing with a psychotic delusional (who will soon be experiencing episodes of paranoia, but they will be well founded, lol).
Seriously, I don't mean to come across as a total prick, but I'm not deaf either, and to say that there's nothing that goes thru the clinic that even remotely resembles "pro" quality is just too bizarre for me to comprehend. I have 3 masters of "pro studio" work sitting on my desk right now, and I defy ANYBODY to tell me that any of them sound better than the last thing Crawdad posted in the clinic. I can A/B those recordings and 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell you which was pro and which was crawdaddy.
Now, mine on the other hand...
night
Seriously, I don't mean to come across as a total prick, but I'm not deaf either, and to say that there's nothing that goes thru the clinic that even remotely resembles "pro" quality is just too bizarre for me to comprehend. I have 3 masters of "pro studio" work sitting on my desk right now, and I defy ANYBODY to tell me that any of them sound better than the last thing Crawdad posted in the clinic. I can A/B those recordings and 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell you which was pro and which was crawdaddy.
Now, mine on the other hand...
night
C
christiaan
Active member
The quality varies in the clinic, that's definately true. Sometimes I really wonder if comments like "that's hit material" or "radio ready" are really meant or just attempts to our keep fellow recordists motivated because I can't hear it. (But whichever it is isn't important really, it's all based on opinions so in the end it's ok by me).
There are however recordings that to my ears do sound like they're really ready for a bigger audience. Recordings like Darthfaders' that are done in a bedroom (ok, his VS2480 is worth a couple of grands alone but still) motivate me a hell of a lot to try to reach that level one day. And the beautiful part is that when you find such gems in a pool of less stellar recordings, you'll appreciate them even more.
(Jeez, I should be writing poetry)
So keep 'em coming, even when you suck!
There are however recordings that to my ears do sound like they're really ready for a bigger audience. Recordings like Darthfaders' that are done in a bedroom (ok, his VS2480 is worth a couple of grands alone but still) motivate me a hell of a lot to try to reach that level one day. And the beautiful part is that when you find such gems in a pool of less stellar recordings, you'll appreciate them even more.
(Jeez, I should be writing poetry)So keep 'em coming, even when you suck!
C
chessrock
Banned
tjohnston said:
That's a fair observation. Drums are the most difficult thing to track. So much depends on the skill and technique of the drummer, the quality of the set, and perhaps even more importantly the maintenance (heads regularly changed, properly tuned). Getting the right combination of these factors (so as to sound like something on the radio, as you put it) is pretty rare; and isn't something the average Joe can conquer easily (without triggering or loops, that is).
Unfortunately, this isn't too far off in a lot of cases.
We're all making the best of what we got.
B
Boray
New member
There was this guy that sent me one of his mp3s ones. It sounded really horrible. So I told him that and gave him some hints on how to improve. He got really mad and said things like -what he recorded into a standard soundcard with a mic/hedphones headset sounded just as good as my recordings. After a bit of discussion, it turned out that he actually thought that what he heard from the lo-fi streams of my mp3s was as good as my recordings were.... Right... 
Take a listen to this mp3 ( http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013331 ), and check out what low-cost gear he used. He actually used two cheap behringer reference mics for drum overheads, and the recording sounds just great anyway.... It's not just the gear... It's also the person(s) using the gear... It would be very interesting to hear what people have to say when you post your first mp3 here, tjohnston!
/Anders
Take a listen to this mp3 ( http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013331 ), and check out what low-cost gear he used. He actually used two cheap behringer reference mics for drum overheads, and the recording sounds just great anyway.... It's not just the gear... It's also the person(s) using the gear... It would be very interesting to hear what people have to say when you post your first mp3 here, tjohnston!
/Anders
T
toadies
New member
All pro CDs are professinally mastered, Thats what brings the life out of the song. Compressed like no other and limited like no other for the radio
tjohnston
New member
that was a very risky thread but well worth it. Every time I post a topic Im trying to learn something. In this case I had to prod some answers out of people. Correct me if Im wrong this is what I have learned.
Most people dont have thousands of dollars of gear. Its more like hundreds.
Mastering produces a very noticeable difference in quality.
Downloading low fi stuff makes it sound a little thin. Computer speakers arent the best either.
One can make a good sounding product but it takes a lot knowlege and experience. After that its creativity, room acoustics and gear.
And finally some things on the mixing clinic really do suck. Perhaps not because home recording sucks but because people are still in the begining stages of learning.
Most people dont have thousands of dollars of gear. Its more like hundreds.
Mastering produces a very noticeable difference in quality.
Downloading low fi stuff makes it sound a little thin. Computer speakers arent the best either.
One can make a good sounding product but it takes a lot knowlege and experience. After that its creativity, room acoustics and gear.
And finally some things on the mixing clinic really do suck. Perhaps not because home recording sucks but because people are still in the begining stages of learning.
Last edited:
Kramer
Well-known member
Well????????have you been listening on lo fi streams?If you have then this whole thread is baseless and you are the dumbest guy ever to grace this board.
So what is it?lo fi stream and shitty speakers?Is that what you've based all of this on?
So what is it?lo fi stream and shitty speakers?Is that what you've based all of this on?
tjohnston
New member
Both, taking the time to download it is better but if its a crappy recording it still sounds well... crappy. Dont get me wrong Im not bashing home recording I just want to know what to expect before I drop a few grand on equipment and room treatment. I agree with the knowlege and skill thing though. Im not backing down from my orginal statement that a lot of music made in home studios sucks. Im kinda sounding like SWEETNUBS arent I.
Kramer
Well-known member
tjohnston said:Both, taking the time to download it is better but if its a crappy recording it still sounds well... crappy. Dont get me wrong Im not bashing home recording I just want to know what to expect before I drop a few grand on equipment and room treatment. I agree with the knowlege and skill thing though. Im not backing down from my orginal statement that a lot of music made in home studios sucks. Im kinda sounding like SWEETNUBS arent I.
If your conclusion is based solely on listening to lo fi streams then you have absolutely no right to judge any mix.Lo fi sounds like a motherfuckin AM radio.
If you didnt know that then you are really clueless.
therage!
Wicked Machine
chrisharris said:
Don't knock yourself, your good! lol
Those guys you mentioned are doing some amazing stuff. I think crawdad is using drum samples in Fruity and I'm envious! He's had to put some serious time into that!
But in general drum sounds really do seem to be one of the really difficult things to pull off. If people are recording with real acoustic drums maybe they should seriously look at using samples and drumagog.
chrisharris
King of Bling
truetjohnston said:
This is a frequently and hotly debated topic around here. If you tracked and mixed poorly, "mastering" will make a much more noticeable difference. Opinions vary, but there's not a damned thing a mastering "engineer" can do that cannot be accomplished with a parametric equalizer and a multi-band compressor.
Wrong, it doesn't make it sound "a little thin," it totally rips about 95% of the original frequencies out of the mix...lol. I was being sarcastic in my response...lofi is...hell, just look at the name, lol.
No real argument here.
True...but the suck is not limited to beginners.
Sorry if I came across as hostile, but this place is all about opinions...when I was on a dialup connection and listening to songs in the clinic, I always made DAMNED sure to let the artist KNOW that I listened on lofi, and I NEVER offered fidelity comments...just things like out of sync vocals or off pitch stuff...oh, and I downloaded a lot of stuff, too.
I'm just saying be careful about it, because if you're telling somebody the mix sounds "middy" or something, you can really point them in the wrong direction if your basis is a lofi stream.Good luck.
[edit] Thanks "therage."
C
chessrock
Banned
Kramer said:
Oh my god.
TJ, Kramer is right.
If you were to listen to ANY of your favorite commercial releases as a lo fi stream, they would sound like ass, too. The "low fi" option is like listening to something recorded at 4-bit 22 khz. It sucks ass, and should only be used as a last resort. Get a faster modem.
Peace.
L
littledog
New member
chrisharris said:
Not trying to start a fight, but something about that statement is a little odd. Kind of like saying: "Nothing Picasso painted couln't be accomplished with a decent palette of paints and a good canvas."
In a literal sense, it's true, but it does seem to kind of leave out a couple of critical factors that would tend to make my paintings somewhat less valuable than Picasso's, even if I used his exact same tools.
crosstudio
New member
if it is not in the recording, then the mastering engineer can not bring it out, so the quality of the original recording lends itself to being mastered nicely.
if you listen to pro material on MP3 and then you listen to home rec material on MP3 the sound quality should be proportional to the mastered copies. if you think our MP3's suck and pro MP3's dont, then its our recording/mixing/mastering process that is the culprit.
how much money are you going to spend on your studio once you figure out what you want? in other words are you going to be using Neumann mics with a Neve board into Pro Tools or are you going to be using an AT4033 into a RNP into a Motu into Sonar or are you going to using a Radio shack into a Tascam porta-track?
i've taken some good strides since i got here and have also picked up some better gear. when i listen to my stuff against my reference CDs the difference is getting smaller.
if you listen to pro material on MP3 and then you listen to home rec material on MP3 the sound quality should be proportional to the mastered copies. if you think our MP3's suck and pro MP3's dont, then its our recording/mixing/mastering process that is the culprit.
how much money are you going to spend on your studio once you figure out what you want? in other words are you going to be using Neumann mics with a Neve board into Pro Tools or are you going to be using an AT4033 into a RNP into a Motu into Sonar or are you going to using a Radio shack into a Tascam porta-track?
i've taken some good strides since i got here and have also picked up some better gear. when i listen to my stuff against my reference CDs the difference is getting smaller.
Kramer
Well-known member
crosstudio said:
He hasnt listened to any MP3's....he's just listening to Lo-fi streaming audio......thats worse than AM radio as Im sure you already know Cross.
Kramer
Well-known member
crosstudio said:
He hasnt listened to any MP3's....he's just listening to Lo-fi streaming audio......thats worse than AM radio as Im sure you already know Cross.
A
abbated
New member
Hey tjohnston,
I've had the same beef with drums forever. Most home recorders are not drummers and use sampled drums. Check out Drumkit From Hell. Can't have a beef with the way these sound.
http://drumkit.toontrack.com/
I've had the same beef with drums forever. Most home recorders are not drummers and use sampled drums. Check out Drumkit From Hell. Can't have a beef with the way these sound.
http://drumkit.toontrack.com/
chrisharris
King of Bling
LOL...no, you're absolutely right. In fact, when you said "In a literal sense, it's true," I really meant it that way...(i.e., literally). I was just talking about the tools, not the talent. You must think I'm one totally arrogant S.O.B...lol; I think some people have the impression that a mastering house can punch up anything into sonic brilliance because they have magic tools that homerecers just don't have...TJ seemed to be more interested in the gear, so that's all I was talking about.littledog said:
Flame on, lmao,
Chris (TOTALLY not arrogant)
D
darwin
New member
Actually, Tjohnston, I have to admire the risk that you took here, and I think that you are trying to be kind to others here because you understand that this forum can arm you with the information to make better recordings. So, you have probably found yourself in a position where you are probably considering spending some hard-earned cash on some gear, and you want to know if that expenditure has the potential to make a good-sounding record. I think this is the entire point of your post, and here are my thoughts.
1) You can judge performance by listening in Lo-Fi, but you can't judge sound quality by listening in Lo-Fi. Sometimes, Hi-Fi isn't really that cool either. It's better to have copy of the CD and A/B it with some pro stuff on your system to get an accurate feel for a sound quality comparison. Also, I don't know if this is one of your points, but songs that are played on the radio usually sound different than those same songs on CD. The reason is that record companies have budgets that allow them to master material for either CD, tape, DVD, or radio.
2) A few grand, depending on what you already have, is probably not going to get you in the ballpark of making commercial quality CDs especially if you are going to record live drums. For example, an API 3124+ is a set of very high-end mic pres that are commonly used in Pro studios on drums. This gear has 4 pres and runs $2800 new. You would still need to buy the cords and the microphones that would do this part of the signal chain justice, and this would only get four mics on the drum set. If you wanted more tracks, you would have to buy more stuff.
3) My advice, for what it's worth, would be to evaluate your goals and decide if you are going to get into home recording to produce commercial sounding CDs, or is your goal to brainstorm musical ideas and produce demos that better prepare you for renting pro studio time. If you are going to do the latter, I would suggest that you buy gear that has a good "bang-for-the-buck" rating to meet that end. Perhaps a Mackie 16 channel board, a PC-based DAW, some good quality monitors, and some value mics would suffice. Save the rest of your money for studio time in a great-sounding studio. This bbs is an excellent resource for learning about that kind of gear. Actually, you can get acoustic treatment pretty cheaply if you are armed with good information, and the Studio Building and Display forum is a great place to learn about this. If you want to get the Pro sound, you are going to want to buy only the best stuff you can because you will be disappointed with anything less and you will eventually get the really good stuff anyways thus making your first investment a waste of money.
Hope this helps,
1) You can judge performance by listening in Lo-Fi, but you can't judge sound quality by listening in Lo-Fi. Sometimes, Hi-Fi isn't really that cool either. It's better to have copy of the CD and A/B it with some pro stuff on your system to get an accurate feel for a sound quality comparison. Also, I don't know if this is one of your points, but songs that are played on the radio usually sound different than those same songs on CD. The reason is that record companies have budgets that allow them to master material for either CD, tape, DVD, or radio.
2) A few grand, depending on what you already have, is probably not going to get you in the ballpark of making commercial quality CDs especially if you are going to record live drums. For example, an API 3124+ is a set of very high-end mic pres that are commonly used in Pro studios on drums. This gear has 4 pres and runs $2800 new. You would still need to buy the cords and the microphones that would do this part of the signal chain justice, and this would only get four mics on the drum set. If you wanted more tracks, you would have to buy more stuff.
3) My advice, for what it's worth, would be to evaluate your goals and decide if you are going to get into home recording to produce commercial sounding CDs, or is your goal to brainstorm musical ideas and produce demos that better prepare you for renting pro studio time. If you are going to do the latter, I would suggest that you buy gear that has a good "bang-for-the-buck" rating to meet that end. Perhaps a Mackie 16 channel board, a PC-based DAW, some good quality monitors, and some value mics would suffice. Save the rest of your money for studio time in a great-sounding studio. This bbs is an excellent resource for learning about that kind of gear. Actually, you can get acoustic treatment pretty cheaply if you are armed with good information, and the Studio Building and Display forum is a great place to learn about this. If you want to get the Pro sound, you are going to want to buy only the best stuff you can because you will be disappointed with anything less and you will eventually get the really good stuff anyways thus making your first investment a waste of money.
Hope this helps,