I wanna built a studio!HElp required

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Adding 4 inches of wall on each side, cuts down the room drasticly!

Hello 11miles.

How thick/wide, must e the air gap between the walls to become effective.

It is not the gap that makes it effective. Mass is. The gap has a bearing on low frequency transmission loss. The deeper the gap, the longer the air "spring", hence the lower the resonance of the assembly. But let me reaffirm my disclaimer. My understanding of this is very limited, but I think you will get the point. I will ask one of my friends who DOES know the actual calculations, but not till we determine what you can build in reality.
No sense in wasting time on this untill we found out the materials available, and also, your next statement has a bearing too.

THe problem is that if the gap should be any wider than an inch, i would beg to consider doing it. You see, the room is very small as it is. Adding 4 inches of wall on each side, cuts down the room drasticly!

My point exactly. Why do you think I suggested more than one solution. Either room size is the governing criteria, or Low Frequency Transmission Loss is. One or the other, you can't have both in your room. It is a matter of trading off one for the other.
Without doing the calculations, I cannot tell you the difference in frequency at which transmission occurs in each type of solution. And frankly, the room as a whole really is the governing criteria, as the ceiling, and floor also relate as transmission loss in your situation is a matter of the entire room being enclosed by an exterior shell. That means your weakest link will govern the rooms transmission loss as a whole. Which in this case, means your ceiling, as you certainly can't afford loss of headroom by building a suspended ceiling with an airgap equal to your walls if you built stud walls with an airgap larger than 1" between the back of the stud and the existing wall(4 1/2"). So...... To me, it is a matter of compromise, which is what I told you from the beginning. To build a room to contain a db profile of 85 db down to 20 hz, would probably take an exterior shell of concrete TWO FT THICK! Remember, as a concrete BOX, transmission loss through your exterior shell will radiate in all directions as I believe the shell has it's OWN resonant frequency, but don't take my word on that, it is just for illustration sake.

But i know that good sound proof wall prerequisite some space too.

"Soundproof is a MISNOMER". Even under the BEST circumstances, it still is rediculous. IF there were traintracks within 20' of your room, I doubt ANYONE could build a room that you would NOT hear the train. See what I mean. It is relevant. Transmission at WHAT frequency and at what db from the source is the real question. In other words, if you were monitoring a song that had a bass line and drums thumping loudly, at what db level, would transmission occur? Well, that is one hell of a challange to actually predict correctly. Even for an acoustical engineer. That is why containment is really a matter of designing the entire structure so they CAN predict it by using TESTED assembly designs. In your case, well..... We will do the best we can. That is why Home Recording containment issues are at best happenstance and compromise. Unless you can afford to build from the ground up, with tested assembly designs, the containment performance is likely to be limited to a point.

As far as the HVAC is concerned, that is YOUR decision. The only thing you REALLY need is ventilation. We will work on that one. In the mean time, .....speaking of time, I am out of it at the moment. Talk to you later.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

IF there were traintracks within 20' of your room, I doubt ANYONE could build a room that you would NOT hear the train.

Unless you can afford this.
fitZ

 

[11miles]

I ve searched and calculated.
Have called up some thousand's of pepole that could help me.
Fitz i've come up with these materials i could afford get, make...

Gypsium plate 12,5 mm thick. Would you reccomend the waterproof?

Rock woll 5 cm thick. A question about the hidroisolation. On the floro it's all taken care of. But remember the picture of the ceiling? With that crack and all. Well if i put the rock woll on the ceiling, wont it be a bit dangerous for the rock woll to liquify wiht the drained water over the years? What should i use to avoid it?

A substitute for neoprene pads is a sort of trim, that is made from glass fibres, or it looks like that. Other than that, neoprene is ''ungetable'' as a material. I could go and by a swim suit, and cut it open.


OSB-(Oriented Strand Board ) substitute with PLYWOOD or MDF. You must have some kind of wood construction panels available there.
Both. OSB or pywood. OSB comes a lot cheaper


Construction adhesive...? You tell me. Comes in tubes like caulking.
Acoustical caulking-silicone may work or I will find an alternative.
Silicon is no problem, other forms propably too.

Rollout roofing felt. The stuff looks like a roll of heavy black tar paper with
white lines on it for alignment. Hmmmm, maybe I'm availablity spoiled here.
Isn't that actually a tar? I know what you mean exactly.


Screws--sheetrock screws, sheetmetal screws, wood screws(I use sheetrock screws for most everything. One other thing. I know it probabaly is not available there, but I use what is known as "Robertson" head-or "square head recess" screws instead of phillips.
We definately have those.

Nails....if you don't have these there, don't start this project

Resiliant channel-well, may have to use alternate solution if it isn't available. You will have to tell me by searching for it in your area. I'll post a pic.
I dont know what you have in mind! Sorry.

RISC iso clips...we can order these here and ship them or maybe you can find a distributor in Europe. But you still need metal HAT CHANNEL. Call a sheetrock distributor or insulation contractor. I'll post some pictures of both of these. And tell you the quantity. Or we will design an alternative.
If it's a part of a sheetrock or something that goes along, then there is no prblem. I know a guy, who is distributor. but i would like ot know how it looks like or what doesit do actually?

Doors. You have to tell me what you are using. I will tell you HOW to modify the doors correctly WITHIN REASON. I bought brand new ones. Wooden heavy. Massive timber.

Seals/thresholds. You will have to ask around about this stuff. Here is what we are trying to do. Imagine a gasket like a refriderator seal completely around the doors. May have to settle on foam weather seals. We'll see. I'll post some pics so you can see what I am talking about.
I know. I can get it!

Concrete sealer. This is a must. It prevents mildew, and moisture accumilation.
Is it like a paint? Or what? The mason guy, told me to fix that crack with some pait like concrete ''sealer'' Said it would work like a charm . I am in doubt!

Normally, all homes breath via venting, but in a studio, the room is sealed. But then........YOU have to breath. This is where we have to talk about HVAC or ventilation. WHAT DID YOU HAVE IN MIND? Anything?
Nothin special really. Open the window and the door if it gets real stuffy!

What is the seasons like there? We have the four season change. No extreme temperature. Winters around 0 celzius, but it gets cold to -10. The summers are the hottest. Around 20.

What were you going to do for hot and cold weather?
Radiator. I have one baby checked out at a local story. Its electrical, and is works through convection. It has this cute theromstat, so you can get a pretty even temperature all around!


So much for the answering of the questions!

Indays to come i will post some pics sou you see how my studio is coming a long. Those interested
The electricitiy is now halfway inserted and the floor is done.

Everything is prepared for the next step. The walls!

Help me!

 

[rpe]

This is the most entertaining post I've seen in a long time. It really emphasizes the value of this bbs and the generosity of our members. Good luck to you 11miles and keep up the great advice Rick.

rpe

 

[11miles]

Thou shall not cyinicize

Do i smell some, RPE?

If not thank you and you are welcome to tell me a thing or two about my project .
As you see i am pretty lost!

 

[rpe]

I don't know anything about your smell, but I do know you're anxious to set up a studio and willing to accept good advice. I'm really looking forward to see how your project progresses. Stick with it, don't give up. It will be worth it when you're finished.

rpe

 

[fitZ2]

hello 11miles. Well, as you see, I have a new name. My computer fried last night Fuck. I'm using my wifes computer at the moment. I've got another one but have to completely configure it, mount my old harddrive and transfer my files, load Autocad etc etc. I have NO time to do it untill Sunday, so hang in there and I'll be back. I've got a set of cabinets I have to finish and install by Saturday. Sorry. But in the meantime, I don't understand something.

Indays to come i will post some pics sou you see how my studio is coming a long. Those interested

What do you mean the floor is done? You haven't even begun to build it yet? Like I told you, to reach your goal, the WHOLE ROOM has to be decoupled. That means floor, ceiling and walls. And you can't do the walls untill you build the floor. BTW, you never posted the field dimensions from existing floor to existing ceiling at all corners of the room and in the middle yet. Can't calculate anything till I get those. I'll answer your other questions tonight. I have to go now.

Hey rpe, thanks for the comments. Doin the best I can with what I know


fitZ

 

[11miles]

Thanks for the support RPe!

Fitz, nice to know you are changin names.

The floor is done. So the walls are next.
I ment that by my post. SOrry if it was not understandable!

The field dimensions will follow!

Thanks for now and bye!

 

[fitZ2]

The floor is done. So the walls are next.

Well, since you won't explain what you mean by the floor is done, I assume you don't want to face the fact of what I told you about de-coupling a new floor. And you couldn't have possibly already built it. So no need for the field dimensions. What you seem to be doing, is ignoring what you don't want to do. You will improve the STC of the walls by adding mass, but thats all. Sound will simply flank through the ceiling, and if you do not isolate your speakers from structural transmission from support surface to floor, your new walls will be useless as vibrations transmit better in concrete than in air, and your concrete floor is structurally tied to concrete/brick walls much more intimately than standard walls ever could. That being said, I can offer no further advice than I have, other than there are a thousand threads on John Sayers studio construction forum that explain not only what I have told you, but why. There are also many examples of how to build your walls. Good luck with your project.
fitZ

 

[11miles]

You meant how the floor was done?

I've done some reading about the floating floor. And discovered that it's something pretty standard in building here in europe.

What we've done (me and some masons/constructors) is we layed 2 leaves of polyesther layer on the prior floor for the hydroisolation. Then on the corners, we put an 1,5inch thick rockwool all around. and on the floor the 2,5inch thick one. Then we covered it with concrete so the floor does not stick to the walls nowhere.
As i understand this is very similar to the system of floating floor?
Anyway it is said by constructers, that this is even more improved way of a floatinf floor, beacuse we used rockwool instead of styrofoam which is usually used around here.
SO as i said the floor is done. i thought i explained this earlier but i've must of made a mistake.
Sorry!

So, THis is a problem?
It's not right?
What i meant by the walls being next is, i really would like to know how much of insulation i will require. Is it reasonable to add a slim layer of rockwool on the current bare walls as they are now. Then proceed with the frames for the plasterboard.
As i understand it is good that i dont screw the frames on the bare ceiling but to use some kind of reflective material between them. I know the best way would be neoprene, but as i did some research we have a ''fiberglass-woll something'' material that is used especially in sound isolation building!
Would that be okay.
I mean, is it better to use just the ribbons of these fiber glass material between the ceiling and the frames or even better to cover the whole room with a slim layer of rockwool?

What i wanted to do next is leaving an air gap of about an inch, and then proceed with the 2,5 inch rocwool. finished with a 12,5mm thick plasterboard?


A lot of questions i know.
Well if i've done sth wrong i'm sorry. I did not mean to offend you Fitz, i really apreciate all the info and ideas you gave me.
Please don't stop now!
If so, thanks again and for re-directing me to the john sayers forum,though, i've been reading it some time now!

 

[11miles]

Oh and another thing!
Is it better to use wooden or metal frames for the plaster board?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello 11 miles. Cool

As i understand this is very similar to the system of floating floor?

Hmmmmm, you poured concrete on top of Rockwool? I would imagine it would decouple it to a point, but that would depend on the thickness and weight. What density of rockwool? Did you put a layer of poly over the rockwool before pouring the concrete? I don't think this would pass code here, and I've never heard of it before. My biggest concern would be cracking of the new concrete because of uneven settlement of the rockwool. Any kind of rebar or metal mesh inserted into the concrete? Well, I hope it works out ok. How thick is the concrete?

What i meant by the walls being next is, i really would like to know how much of insulation i will require. Is it reasonable to add a slim layer of rockwool on the current bare walls as they are now. Then proceed with the frames for the plasterboard.

This all depends on your plan. I gave you two alternatives, depending on your prioritys. Space or STC. As far as the rockwool is concerned, if you decide space is the priority, then furring strips fastened to the existing wall is the method of spacing out the gypsum(sheetrock) panels. BUT, YOU NEED TO DECOUPLE THE SHEETROCK, which you can only do with this method, by finding a source for RESILIANT CHANNEL!!! IF you do find it, let me know and I will post a PLAN SECTION AND VERTICAL SECTION of the wall and how/where to place the Resiliant channel. For the Rockwool, it needs to be as thick or a little thicker than the airgap between existing wall and the back of the sheetrock. This is so it DAMPENS the vibration of the panels. So the Rockwool thickness would govern the thickness of the FURRING STRIPS. Resiliant Channel is usually about 1/2" thick, from flange to flange. Also it is IMPERITIVE that you understand the principle of Resiiant Channel, and the importance of proper and precise fastening. ONE MISPLACED SCREW through the sheetrock so that it couples the sheetrock to the furring or touchs the existing wall behind will TOTALLY NEGATE all your work. So let me know and I will layout the screw pattern for you on an elevation. You MUST understand how important this is!! Also, the detailing around the Door JAMB must ALSO be correct. So do the gaps at the floor and ceiling for caulking later. Precision planning and installation is the key here, and thinking ahead!!
However, in the event there is no possible way to obtain RC, then a framed wall becomes the method of choice. BUT, there are a couple of things to deal with then. Since you have decided to jump the gun, and pour a floor without having done research on your wall method, NOW you have to support the walls on a FLOATING CONCRETE FLOOR!!! Proper planning in this respect is EXACTLY what I told you about flying by the seat of your pants A wall that is sheithed with two layers of 5/8" sheetrock is DAMN HEAVY!! IF your concrete floor is only 1" thick or so, then YOU ARE IN TROUBLE. You run the risk of this cracking the edge of the concrete, because of this weight, in turn because of a resiliant underpad of rockwool settling further and unevenly!! Man, your not THINKING!! Not to mention, HOW THE HELL YOU GOING TO FASTEN THIS WALL TO THE FLOOR If you try and drill for concrete anchors, you also run the risk of cracking it or running a fasting bolt too deep and connecting the new floor/wall plate to the OLD floor, thereby negating all you hard work on the new floor. AND further decoupling would be TOTALLY useless. Now, I'm going to tell you once and for all. If you want my help, ok, but if you continue to create problems by jumping ahead and doing things with OUT A PLAN, then your going to have to do this yourself. I can't read your mind, and have NO IDEA what you have in mind in the future. Look, if you want this to succeed, you MUST understand that PLANNING IS THE KEY here. Ok, as far as the floor/wall connection, I need some information. Now is the time to find out about the availability of Resiant Channel, as that is the real solution to the walls. If you have to build actual frame walls, then knowledge of how thick the new floor is, the thickness of the rockwool, how much it has SETTLED and field dimensions like I told you, between the new floor and EXISTING ceiling. There are a couple of things we might be able to do to fasten the new wall in place, WITHOUT drilling for fasteners. But we have to make sure that the walls do NOT MOVE. That means some kind of sway channel and construction adhesive. But more on that later.
Also, this demands some other design details PRIOR to building. Like INSIDE OUT walls on a portion around the console area. More on that later too, AFTER you find out about the RC availabilty. I can't emphasize that enough.
And while your at it, the availability of HAT CHANNEL for the ceiling. FORGET the rubber stuff on walls and ceiling. You can't depend on the structural and iso details to suspend TWO layers of gyp bd from it. I MEAN IT!! So do your best to find these products. We may have to use metal stud as a suspension device, but this will require some detailing of the iso connections. Later on that.
Well, I am out of time again. I will post some more info and pics tonight. I have my old computer working again, so I have access to my bookmarks and net resources. Sorry if I get aggitated, but I see people jump the gun all the time, and then wonder why the hell their project somewhat failed. And it WASTED MY TIME.

fitZ

 

[11miles]

No problem, i understand you.
But i had the masons ready to do it, and the expence of them coming back some other day, when i would be fiiled with your ideas would be much greater. Not that i would mind your advice.

The resiliant channel. You know it's pretty damn hard to vision this thing jsut by reading about it, for i have never seen one.
I am going to the local distributor of Knauf (the company that is very known in europe for its construction materials, especially plaster boards.
Interestingly, in slovenia we have our own word for plasterboard. But we use another, suprisingly it is called Knauf
Just like you call a srewdriver phillips, right?
Anyway i will know everything tommorow.
I realize how applying the Rc to the wall is of great significance. I wont hesitate it.


The new floor is 4 inches thick. The thin layer of PVC(polyester) was layed on the old floor, then covered with a special concrete tile. Slim but hard. Then the sheet of rockwoll and then all covered with concrete. The rockwoll is about 1-2 inch thick. And the concrete about 2-3inches. I was afraid to explain it just how it was done because i did not know the right phrase until you told me. Yes. Between the concrete the masons put some metal in jsut so it doeasnt crack. But it doesn't touch the walls anywhere. Especially when the corners are all isolated form with the rock wool.

I would like to build a room, that is pretty good sound isolated, still feel comfortable in and be able to get soem decent acoustics.

Oh and one thing you must understand and all you others who might be reading this post. (not just you Fitz )

Please bear in mind that it is very difficult for some to start talking to you ph.d's in studio construction.
Some dont even understand the language, and those who, were never around the phrases you use so frequently.
I know it's not your fault, but have a litlle patience!

I think the biggest problem is the vision. Although forums are very explainatory one cannot understand a problem or its solution as good as he would if he could see it. Not read about it. They say a picture is a 1000 words, right?Or even more



Hope i am making some sense here, but although i am fascinated with the building and the physics behind the sound, i am still more of a musician that a freakin' constructor

Thanks for the help so far

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey 11 miles, your ok I'm taking a lunch break so only have a few minutes.

The resiliant channel. You know it's pretty damn hard to vision this thing jsut by reading about it, for i have never seen one.

I have some and will take a picture today. Imagine a thin metal "z" bar. One flange of the Z is fastened to the furring strips. The other flange of the Z is where the "plasterboard" is placed against and screws are used to fasten through the plasterboard and into this flange. However, this flange is very narrow, so "chalk" lines or pencil lines must be placed on the face of the plasterboard so everything lines up perfectly. Like I said, one screw in the wrong place and you ruin the decoupling of the RC.

The new floor is 4 inches thick. The thin layer of PVC(polyester) was layed on the old floor, then covered with a special concrete tile. Slim but hard. Then the sheet of rockwoll and then all covered with concrete. The rockwoll is about 1-2 inch thick. And the concrete about 2-3inches. I was afraid to explain it just how it was done because i did not know the right phrase until you told me. Yes. Between the concrete the masons put some metal in jsut so it doeasnt crack. But it doesn't touch the walls anywhere. Especially when the corners are all isolated form with the rock wool.

ABSOLUTELY COOL!!! 4 inchs. Hey, did you think about inserting "J" bolts for the walls? Of course, this would have meant that you were planning on building double walls, which we don't really know for sure yet. But it is these kind of things that you MUST plan for. Oh well. At least it is thick, but I STILL worry about compression of the rockwool. It could sink over time, which could pull the wall down from the cieling connection, and break the caulking seal at the ceiling/wall. We will worry about that later and make some kind of contingency plan.

Please bear in mind that it is very difficult for some to start talking to you ph.d's in studio construction.

Sorry if the descriptions are foreign to you, but you are learning anyway. And doing just fine. If there is something you don't understand, don't be afraid to ask. And by the way, I ain't no stinking PHD Hahahahaha! Just a member who has learned some stuff for the last couple of years. I was EXACTLY the same as you are now. So hang in there and we will get this together. PLUS, tonight I will do some concept drawings of the interior, ok? Thats the FUN stuff!! It'll be cool. don't worry.

fitZ

 

[11miles]

Well its exactly monday right now and i am still doing research on the web about a lot of things, counstruction related too

Yea the floor is built quite good. Must i say i was there to look over the masons shulder every step of the way.
About the RC. I know now, how the look like, thanks. I got a chande to look at some plans on the web. But that anit the problem. It's how should i tell the man behind the counter what do i need.
The problem is that we dont have a special term for a RC

But they say i am good with words, so...

Oh and another thing.
The walls are now, a bit carved up. The electrician came and put the lines for lights and so on. He is a great guy and a great electrcian.
BTW, know any bad ones?

Anyway, should i cover the walls and fill the channels with cables?
I mean , does it matter? Doeas it matter if the walls are straight or stay carved up?

I think it would be better if i filled the channels, right? SO the walls are nice and straight and ready for some drilling

 

[11miles]

HEy!

So i've jsut come to work, to earn the money i'll spend on the onsulation !

Anyway, i've spend the entire morning looking for a way to get the RC or get a hold of someone who knows how to get them.
Here in Europe That is.

A guy at the Knauf (plasterboard distributor) told me that these sort of things, RC (only when i described him how it looks like or what is it's purpose), is not really what i need. It's used for soundproofing the rooms you record live instruments, like the drums and so.
Is that true?
Because i have no intention of recording anything but DI in my studio 2b.
Anyway, the stroy is i cant get it.

But was thinking since i can get it a lot cheaper, (he gave me a discount, but basicly we will avoid paynig tax, dont ask me how ). Anyway i was thinking i could go for a double plaster wall?
What dou you think Fitz?
Is that effective in my scenario?

A square meter of plaster board is about 2,5$. I need approx.50m2.!SO if i double it it's 5$/m2. Plus the rockwool 1,5/m2.

That is just a little calculation. Plus the frames!
Fitz it's your turn to give me the know-how on putting the frames on the wall.
When you are describing the procedure, tell me why we are doing so, that i understand it, please?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

A guy at the Knauf (plasterboard distributor) told me that these sort of things, RC (only when i described him how it looks like or what is it's purpose), is not really what i need. It's used for soundproofing the rooms you record live instruments, like the drums and so.
Is that true?

No! This is why. Thats stupid. Here is the logic. Sound is sound, whether it is a live instrument that you are recording with a mic, or an airplane that you are trying to keep AWAY from the MIC, or the sound from a set of monitors at 85 db that you are trying to isolate from your neighbors, dig?(old american slang for "understand"?) Why would it only be used for live recording? DOH!! BTW, 85db is the average monitoring level in most studios because of human hearing. Your ears equal loudness curve is flattest at around this level. Look up Fletcher Munson Curves on the net.

Because i have no intention of recording anything but DI in my studio 2b.

DI?

Anyway, the stroy is i cant get it.

Crap. Too bad. Oh well, on to the next solution, which is a double wall.

Anyway i was thinking i could go for a double plaster wall?What dou you think Fitz?
Is that effective in my scenario?

Yes, if you want to achieve your isolation goal, this is what you have to build since you can't get RC.

Fitz it's your turn to give me the know-how on putting the frames on the wall.

Ok, but this will take a few days, as I am overwhelmed with work at the moment. Plus, I need to draw and organize some files to post here for you.
In the meantime, give me the final ACCURATE field dimensions. Room width, at both ends, length of both long walls, dimensions of the door, and along the wall to the jamb, the opening and the height of the room at all four corners-A-B, B-C, C-D, D-A. From the top of the new floor to the existing ceiling, and which is the highest point in the room(use a level).
I'll be back soon.
fitZ

 

[11miles]

Room width, at both ends,
Wall A-261,5 cm
Wall C- 261 cm
in the middle of the room, the width is 262 cm(261,9cm)


length of both long walls,
Wall D- 457
Wall B- 458

dimensions of the door, 200x85 (in cm) and located on the wall B
and along the wall to the jamb,
17,5 cm from the wall a to the jamb, and 27cm from the celiling to the jamb

the opening?You mean the upening for the door?

and the height of the room at all four corners-
A-B
245cm
B-C,
246,5
C-D,
246
D-A.
245

From the top of the new floor to the existing ceiling, and which is the highest point in the room(use a level).
I used a level, and found that the highest point in the room is the joint between the ceiling and the wall C. 247(246,8cm)

About the aplyying the frames for the plaster board. I still am not sure, wooden or metal?
Would be the normal channel used for holding the Gypsium plates on the floor be good replacement for the RC?
Would that work?

Should i fill the channels the electrician made while laying down the cables? Is that sound proof-related?

I would like to start with the walls on thursday. That is when a couple of freinds is coming over to help.
SO if could get some useful info on how to apply the plasterboard correctly to the wall. and it's frame rof that matter that would really be useful.

- Insulation, i will use rockwool. I have to know because i have to get it.
And what is the best postion for lying it down.
Should it be on the old walls, leave an air gap, and the double plaster boards?
Or- leave an airgap between the old ceiling and then aplly rock woll and 2PB's?
I thought i would use some rope to tie it on the plaster board or the old ceiling for taht matter.
OR the hell with everything and forget the airgap!

I read that i must finish the first layer of plaster board(fill the gaps,before i would lay down the second layer, right?

 

[fitZ2]

Hello 11miles. well as you can see, I'm using my wifes computer again. I fried the SECOND power supply last night. dumb! dumber! dumbest! person on the planet. I left my computer on with the power problem still happening that fried the first one. What a moron! Sooooooooo, hang in there and I'll get this fixed and get on with the project. Thanks for the field dimensions, although I can't plug them into the drawing untill I get a new power supply and fix the breaker problem. Trouble is, I'm to overwhelmed with cabinet work right now to stop and fix the power problem

About the aplyying the frames for the plaster board. I still am not sure, wooden or metal?

Your choice. Have you any experience working with either? Wood will take at least a skill saw(portable electric saw), but a radial arm is better for square cuts. Metal is another animal altogeather, although metal is better for LO frequency absorbtion from wall flex. Wood is stiffer. PLASTERBOARD walls act as a MEMBRANE ABSORBER........IF....the airgap between the back of the plasterboard and the existing walls is HERMETICALLY SEALED. That means PAYING ATTENTION to details when mounting the platerboard to the frames. Imagine, a membrane absorber works only because a box is sealed. The front panel resonates at a frequency determined by the depth of the cavity, and the density(weight) of the panel. It absorbs by turning sound energy into heat by flexing the panel, but you need insulation within too. It does send some of this energy back into the room, but I'm no expert and this is just a little info on the subject. The fact is though, you get FREE absorption just from the walls On the subject of fabricating METAL frames, some people say it is easier than working with wood. But I'm a woodworker, so.........
Do you have any tools or building experience?

Should i fill the channels the electrician made while laying down the cables? Is that sound proof-related?

Only when the electrical boxes penetrate the interior shell. Thats why it is better to bring a line through a small hole, and distribute it via metal conduit on the wall. Although it is ugly. So I have a few ideas to do this so it is not visual. Wait though. As far as these channels, did he DIG OUT THE CONCRETE OR BRICK I don't understand. Are you doing a "STAR" grounding scheme?

I would like to start with the walls on thursday. That is when a couple of freinds is coming over to help.

I know you are anxious, but I think you are JUMPING THE GUN. You haven't even told me what you want to do about the ceiling yet, and it needs prep before walls go up. You NEED this suspended(decoupled ceiling) or your walls are a waste of time, although they will help a little. For maximum success, it is a matter of the whole ball of wax or none. And you have already floated the floor. Sooooooooo....BTW, did or are you planning on SEALING all the concrete walls and ceiling? It is important. If you do not, even the existing paint may not keep out mould and moisture. You MAY even have to remove loose paint and washdown the mildew I saw in the pictures. Clorine usually will work for this. Many prep things. Like your door jambs. Have you considered the fact that when you build new walls, the whole "existing wall-new wall thickness requires either another jamb, or another jamb/door assembly that is "decoupled" from the existing jamb. LOTS of details to consider. Unless you like to fix stuff later(pain in the ass) I would advise you to PLAN PLAN PLAN!!!!!! What about caulk. What are you using?
As far as the frame is concerned, personally I would go with wood, as it is far easier to fastem fabric/slats to wood than metal, although these could be built after the wall is built, as seperate units, but now will take up more space. Hence the inside-out portions.
It will take me a few days to get this plan done. Remember, you still have treatment to do to, and the actual design of the studio MAY include a portion as an INSIDE OUT wall to incorporate a "Slat absorber" or plain absorption panels within the wall cavity, which requires the plasterboard to be mounted on the "airgap" side of the studs. This means building these portions ON THE FLOOR, and then raising them in place. Actually, all your walls will be built on the floor, but it is the only way you can fasten the plasterboard for inside out construction, prior to raising them. This also means building your walls in MODULES, which require precise layouts AND placing a second "top plate" to keep the modules straight. This is done AFTER the walls are in place. BTW, have you even thought about how you are going to keep the walls in place via sway channels at the top? These are the sort of things you MUST plan on or you are asking for trouble. Remember, this is NOT your average "wham bam thank you mam" residential walls How about seals around the doors. And the "decoupled" thresholds under them. AND fastening your wall plates to the floor, huh? Man, you have so many things to think about.
Well, I'm out of time. Talk more tonight. I couldn't post pics last night because of my computer breakdown. Will try tonight.
fitZ

 

[11miles]

It seem staht the more i answer you, the more you ask me back

No problem what-so-ever.

By the way how are the elections going on there?

Tat is not a dumbest thing i heard about frying something up, but is a cutie-pie!


On with the answers.
About the working expirience. I am 23 but can say i know my way around tools.
Saws, drills, hammers, staplers,...lay it on me.

I ask about the metal or wooden, because i get the metal form the knauf supplier. The wooden one would have to be ''custom'' sawed.
If the metal is better, soundwise even slightly, we need this conv. no more!

About the grounding. all grounds are connected to a single grounding point
No he ddi not bring out the brick. Just a bit of concrete. an inch perhaps. Should i bother filling the gaps or what?

'what you want to do about the ceiling yet, and it needs prep before walls go up.You NEED this suspended(decoupled ceiling) or your walls are a waste of time, although they will help a little.

I am all for suspending it.

are you planning on SEALING all the concrete walls and ceiling? It is important.
I would!

Have you considered the fact that when you build new walls, the whole "existing wall-new wall thickness requires either another jamb, or another jamb/door assembly that is "decoupled" from the existing jamb.

Well the old door is now forgotten and the opening filled up. SO are the jamb of it.
As far as the new door is concerned it has a brand new jamb. I hope that is not a problem.


What about caulk. What are you using?
Mostly silicon based. Not good? What do you reccomend.

What is an inside out wall?

I like the idea of having the absorbrs you all talk so grand about, but in my case they will have to be DIY. Will i manage?