I wanna built a studio!HElp required

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello again ....11miles...hey, shouldn't that be...kilometers
Well I looked at your drawing, and converted the dimensions from CM to inchs
and laid out a BASIC Plan to scale in CAD. Now we can get to work. This is a fairly small space. AND I still have many many questions, but lets start with the basics. Take a look. I'm posting the plan and 1 elevation as an EXAMPLE only. There are tons of details I need information on, but one step at a time.
Notice I labled each Wall as an Elevation Letter. That is how we will identify which wall we are talking about, ok? So lets get started.
Questions.
Plan...IF you faced each wall, which wall would you be looking at when you were facing NORTH? In plan view, on which side are the neighbors and how far from the closest wall, and which wall would this be? Which wall is adjacent to the street? And how far to the street? Which wall is are exterior walls, and which wall is common to the house? Which room in the house is on the other side of this wall? You show a
Floor. You said you have the floor half done. Tell me about this. What are you doing EXACTLY. Does this floor meet a driveway outside, or does it drop down or what. Is there a foundation for the walls HIGHER than the floor? Are you pouring concrete up to a foundation? If so, how are you tieing the new concrete to the existing foundation. Tell me about this foundation. Actually, tell me about the whole perimeter of the building at all 4 walls, inside and outside. How thick is this new floor you are talking about? WHAT was there in the first place? Dirt? Old concrete/tile/brick? Is any old flooring being torn out?

Tell me about the patio. Does it cover the WHOLE garage? Is there a short PARAPET WALL around the patio? What is the patio finish floor made of? If concrete, what holds up the concrete? Is there a wood roof under the concrete or what? The stairway outside. Does it connect to the wall? How? Where is this stairway? How is the patio floor sealed against rain, and how does it drain off, and where does this drainage go?
Wall/Elevation A. Was there EVER a "CAR garage door? Doesn't look like you could fit a car through that opening. In your drawing, you show something that you said you are filling in completely with brick. Was this a DOOR OPENING? Looked like a window in your drawing. So this wall is brick, RIGHT? Tell me the thickness of the wall/brick. How does the brick tie into the roof or joists above? When you say "unfinished walls and ceiling, exactly what do you mean? Unfinished brick? Unfinished studs? Unfinished plaster? What is it?
Wall/Elevation B. What is this wall made of? I drew it as a standard stud wall, but I bet it is brick, right. What is on the OTHER side of it outside? Yard? What is the wall finish on the exterior? How does it tie into the ceiling or roof? Is there a wood plate at the top of the wall? What kind of foundation/floor connection? Any electrical in this wall, and where? What kind of wire....3/12? Any ground wire? Are the outlets grounded?

Wall/Elevation C. Same questions as B.

Wall/Elevation D. Same questions as B. Add these. What is this door? Is this the door you were refering to as "build up the old 2 way doors"? What did you mean by "2 way"? Where does this door lead, and what is outside of this door? Is the pavement level with the "partial floor in the room? Or do you step down? What kind of framework for this door? What kind of JAMB? Latchset?

Ceiling/Roof. What supports the roof? Wood joists? How deep is the space from the bottom of the joist, to the material above?(Width of joists) What is the spacing of these joists, center to center? Do they span the short dimension of the room? Is there a beam of anykind that supports the joists in the center? What do the joists rest on at the top of the walls? Have you had ANY leaks? If so, what was done to repair them if you did have a leak? Any electrical in the ceiling, or existing lights? What are they? Incandescent or fluorescent? Are you changing these?


Well, that ought to keep you busy for a while When you FULLY answer these, I will interpret the answers on the drawings, and post them. THEN, we have something to work with. Untill then, keep studying, and I'll post some more stuff for you each day. Here are the EXAMPLES for questions only. They will become more detailed as you answer my questions. This is the only way I can properly direct you how to build this within your budget.
Cheers
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Here is Elevation "D". Actually, a Longitudinal section through the building. Take a look and clarify EVERYTHING that is wrong. I NEED DETAILS!
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Actually, this is really difficult to post a drawing at a scale you can read the text. All I can do is zoom in on each detail and post it as a reply. More later.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Ok, here is an example of a floating floor detail. Not that we will be doing this. This is only to show you WHY I need to know EXACTLY what exists.
fitZ

 

[11miles]

Uhh!
HEre are the answers!
PAragraph by paragraph!

Plan...IF you faced each wall, which wall would you be looking at when you were facing NORTH?
Wall B

In plan view, on which side are the neighbors and how far from the closest wall, and which wall would this be?
The neighburs are on the B wall. My Wall to their wall is about 7m


Which wall is adjacent to the street? And how far to the street?
The c wall is adjacent to the street! About 5m away from the street. It's not really a street more like a drive-way for a couple of houses. No trucks going by or anything like that. No fast cars either.

Which wall is are exterior walls, and which wall is common to the house?
The D wall is common to the house. The A B and C are all exterior.

Which room in the house is on the other side of this wall?
A stairway is on the other side of the D wall!

You show a Floor. You said you have the floor half done. Tell me about this.
Well this was a garage. Still is for about a day or so
The floor is solid concrete with a hydro isolation in between.(anti-humid)

What are you doing EXACTLY.
It's custom in Europe to isolate it wit a layer of fine cement over the isolation, mostly styrofoam.Over the fine cement goes even finer layer of cement called 'mass'. YOu gen do wood tiles then, carpet, ETC...
And on the corners of the floor we put styrofoam paltes about 2'' thick before we pour the layer of cement over. I've never quite understood why. The constructers told me it was for the sound insulation of some sort.
I would understand it as if the frequencies do not move across the floor through the wall and the foundations and next through the house.It stops the sound just a bit. So it is said.


Does this floor meet a driveway outside, or does it drop down or what.
No, the floor concludes at the edge drops to the driveway.

Is there a foundation for the walls HIGHER than the floor?
Well the zero point of the the found. are ofcourse about 80cm lower than the floor, and about 20 cm above the floor. The found. are then continued by the walls.
Are you pouring concrete up to a foundation?
No the cement is just over the floor. The foundations are in the walls and do not even touch them!
If so, how are you tieing the new concrete to the existing foundation. Tell me about this foundation. Actually, tell me about the whole perimeter of the building at all 4 walls, inside and outside.

How thick is this new floor you are talking about? WHAT was there in the first place? Dirt?
As i said, prior was(still is) normal 15cm thick layer of concrete. The new layer is expected to be, including isolation, about 8-10 cm thick.
Old concrete/tile/brick? Is any old flooring being torn out? NO

Tell me about the patio.
Okay!
Does it cover the WHOLE garage?
Yes

Is there a short PARAPET WALL around the patio? A wooden fence of some sort. My grandmas idea of our house looking like an alpine wooden cottage.

What is the patio finish floor made of?Ceramic tile
If concrete, what holds up the concrete? Is there a wood roof under the concrete or what?
The ceramic tiles are covered over a solid concrete. A lot of iron in between holds the concrete together and strong. Again its how all the houses and floors here are built.

The stairway outside.
No stairway outside the house. If you are reffering to those on the D wall of our house That is inside the house.
Does it connect to the wall? How? Where is this stairway?
It really does not connect to the wall. The stairway is woodennot touching the wall very much!Not the one we are interested in. It is the other wall of the house it leans on.
How is the patio floor sealed against rain, and how does it drain off, and where does this drainage go?
The patio has a roof. Otherwise my mom could not dry the laundry.
The drainage goes through the drain pipe, located about 10cm away from the wall B.

Wall/Elevation A. Was there EVER a "CAR garage door?
Yes it was.
Doesn't look like you could fit a car through that opening. Oky we have small cars in Europe but not that small.

The car doors still exists. Again only for a day or so. The workers are going to remove it from the hinges and replace them with a solid brick wall 20 cm thick!

In your drawing, you show something that you said you are filling in completely with brick. Was this a DOOR OPENING? Looked like a window in your drawing. So this wall is brick, RIGHT? Tell me the thickness of the wall/brick.
Explained above!

How does the brick tie into the roof or joists above? I've seen this completed. Once finished you never knew there were any kind of doors there. The bricks are placed and then te final layer f the ceilling ''mass'' (mentioned before). It ties with the prior wall like one. That is: very good!

When you say "unfinished walls and ceiling, exactly what do you mean?
I mean bare ceiling with the ceiling mass layer, so its more or less straight. On the end painted.

Unfinished brick? Unfinished studs? Unfinished plaster? What is it?
As explained before

Wall/Elevation B. What is this wall made of? I drew it as a standard stud wall, but I bet it is brick, right. Yes.
What is on the OTHER side of it outside?
Yard?
About a 1,5 of our yard, bourder then about a 1,5m of neighbours yard, then his garage, above a patio, aobut 4m and then his house.

What is the wall finish on the exterior?
Facade
How does it tie into the ceiling or roof? Is there a wood plate at the top of the wall?
No wooden plate all concrete and iron.

What kind of foundation/floor connection?
No connection. I went to ask my grandpa who supervisied the project when it was built some 30 years ago. He said the foundations awere builted first. Then the floor with no connection. It was quite funny asking him, because he does not seem to understand why this would interest me.
He is a very funny but adoreable guy!

Any electrical in this wall, and where? What kind of wire....3/12? Any ground wire? Are the outlets grounded?
Ele. is on B and D wall. The demand for electricity was not som great those days so i think it was a pair of bulbs and an outlet.
Yes, they are grounded!

Wall/Elevation C. Same questions as B.
Same anwers. No electricity. Away from the wall is my dads lawn and acouple of trees.

Wall/Elevation D. Same questions as B.
Same anwers!

Add these.
What is this door? The door are not built yet. But i planned to put them as the drawing shows.
Is this the door you were refering to as "build up the old 2 way doors"What did you mean by "2 way"??No that is the Door on the wall C. 2 way means it has actually 2 doors. IF the entrance door has one door, the car door has two. A bit funny, we open them up, the way we do the entrance door. In the US its all vertical right?

Where does this door lead, and what is outside of this door?
Ot's really very interesting. The door will be place in a hall way not really used from when the house was built. The hallway is really an entrance hall of some sort.
Is the pavement level with the "partial floor in the room? Or do you step down?
Correct assumption. Once the new floor is finished, the difference will be about 20cm, just enough for a single step.
What kind of framework for this door? What kind of JAMB? Latchset?
I was thinking something heavy. Oak. I dont think i can chose from other than normal JAMBs, except going for that ultra expensive ones. NOT. The lachset too.
What do you recommend?

Ceiling/Roof. What supports the roof? Wood joists?
All iron and solid concrete!
How deep is the space from the bottom of the joist, to the material above?(Width of joists)
20 cm
What is the spacing of these joists, center to center? Do they span the short dimension of the room? Is there a beam of anykind that supports the joists in the center? What do the joists rest on at the top of the walls?
No joists, all iron and solid concrete
Have you had ANY leaks?
As a matter of fact i had some leaks in the past, but once the ceramic tiles where replaced on the patio, the leakage stopped, once it was isolated by some waterresistant material.
If so, what was done to repair them if you did have a leak?
Any electrical in the ceiling,
Only B and D
or existing lights? Yes One above an 2 on each side of the B and D celinig
What are they? Incandescent or fluorescent? Are you changing these?
I have some flourescent now but thinking of changing them. I fell like a damn chicken under them! As far as i know it makes those nerverackling sounds on the speakrs once you piht them up!



Okay i'll be going to get my friends digi-camera to shoot some pics, so i can upload, and see these monstrosity as it is.
Plus i want to have it as a memoires Before after photos!

Read ya

 

[11miles]

I have some pics, but can't upload them. A bit to big.

I'll try to resize them and describe them a bit.

If not i can mail them to those interested.

ANd i've decided to monitor every step of the way with a photo just like Rick did at his studio.

By the way well done Rick.

By for now

 

[11miles]

HEy again.

Well i've nearly finished with the concrete building and adapting. Also i've managed to upload the pics i bragged earlier about.

Anyway have a look-see.
And tell me what you think.

I will post them one-by- one and comment them in the thread.

This is our garage prior to the up-builiding.
Today, the doors are removed and filled with brick wall.
This is what why in Europe call a two-way door. I am sure you dont have them in US. Only the vertical ones. And those on the remote, right?

Anyway, the garage is to be my own litlle production room.

 

[11miles]

without the brooms and the garbage inside offcourse.

 

[11miles]

The view from the inside out. How it once was anyway!The driveway, which is our own private driveway. The street you see next to the driveway is not really a street. No real traffic. Just a few neighbours with their cars. Nothing disturbing e.g. Tricks, speeding cars,etc.

 

[11miles]

Fitz, this is the B wall. The neighbour-wall!

Dont mind the color. Some 10 years ago, mom said i had to paint the garage. And i did. You like it?
p.s. I was 12

 

[11miles]

A problem?

This is the garage and the house joint. The garage was built seperately and later. Therefore, the garage is said to be subsiding differently (faster/slower) than the house.
Add a litlle e-quake now and the ant the cracks are here.
The humid stains around it are the aftermath of heavy rains over the last 10 years. Nothing dripping. Ever. Just the stains. The mason cracked it wide and refilled it with some sort of an antihumid cement mass. Supposedly it helps a lot.

Again above the garage as seen on the pic 1, the patio.

 

[11miles]

THe ''me&the neighbour'' distance. Abut 3-4 metres. He has similar placementof garage and patio above, which is the first closest neighbourly object.


Observe my grandmas flowering, please

 

[11miles]

The wall from the '' 'till now unused hallway''before it was torn down by the mason. New doors are already placed in.
Maybe the pic is nothing special. But wait for my new pics.

 

[11miles]

And a part of ''stairway to Heaven''

No really, a prot of the stairway. This is the wallD actually from the inside of the house.
As explained the room next to the garage is actually the stairway.
Lucky me, ha?
No, bedrooms or living room.
Even more, all the living rooms and bedrooms are actually on the other side of the house!

This is it for now.
Hope you will check it out and post some suuggestions on what to do next.

Especially when i still don't know exactly how to turn my room? The positioning.
I was reading the John site very carefuly and picked-up a few things.
Its seem to me, that i will go for the extra celling with the gypsium plate-interior. Between an air gap, and glued to the wall a laer of 2.5' styrofoam blocks.

I was consedirng doing the bass traps and other stuff all by myself. Not that i would nto buy, Ethan, but getting it form the US to Europe...

Any pointers on how?

Also i would take up Johns advice on the back wall absorber. The 2'x2' blocks, different sizes, and glued toghether on a plywood and hanged on the back wall seems a do-able idea!

Again Pro's and con's!

I am doing a lot of reading guys.
THanks a lot!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello 11miles.......er, what is the miles, I thought you used kilometers

Ok, I looked at the pics. Exactly what I pictured. Except what you called doors, we call gates.
Tough one. Concrete box. Good first leaf. Terrible size. Terrible acoustics. You will loose space to deal with isolation and treatment. Here are my suggestions.

Its seem to me, that i will go for the extra celling with the gypsium plate-interior. Between an air gap, and glued to the wall a laer of 2.5' styrofoam blocks.

FORGET the styrofoam. It does nothing, except thermally. Which btw, what do you have in mind for HVAC or venting? Remember, penetrating the shell is the conundrum here. Lets discuss this later.

Since you want to blast away at 2a.m., and your space is directly connected to the house, via a concrete wall and floor, there is only ONE way to isolate this structure. De-couple the entire room. Which basically is building isolated and decoupled room within a room.(various construction solutions)

However, considering the size constraints, I see a couple of things we have to address as far as alternate solutions. Here is the way I see it.

Floor.: Floated on neoprene "pucks"(one solution only)
Intire existing floor/walls ceiling sealed with waterproof sealant
Floor Frame-:2x4(or metric equivilent) treated wood, laid face down on pucks @ 16" oc.(drawing to follow) Build frames as modules, per diagram to follow. R-(?) Batts cut and placed within frame voids
Sub-floor-(sheithing)
1st layer-5/8 moisture resistant gyp board with all joints supported by frame, fasten to frame frame lines.and caulked with resiliant acoustical caulk.
2nd Layer-The heaviest rollout roofing felt you can find, or comp. roof(for lack of better term, I will tell you correct name later.) This usually comes in 36" wide rolls. All joints to be sealed with appropriate sealant(usually an asphalt based compound, but I will look for correct stuff.
3rd layer 3/4"(or metric equal) Oriented Strand Board(OSB) or Ply with tongue and groove long joints Orient panels at 90 degrees to gyp bd panels. Use screws through all layers into frame at 6" oc at perimeter and 8" oc at interior frame lines. Caulk all joints as each panel is placed.

Walls, here is where space considerations come into play. As I see it, there are TWO solutions. We may use both, depending on which wall.
Solution option #1
(long walls, B and D.. Vertical full height 3/4" x 1 1/2" Wood FURRING Strips at 16" oc, fastened to concrete walls with a vertical bead of construction adhesive and short concrete nails or screws with concrete anchors. Place vertical batts R(?) insulation in between furring, held in place with 1/2" wide plastic strapping across face, length of wall, stapled to each furring strip as each batt is placed. The insulation is THICKER than the furring. This will dampen the gyp panels.
Next, screw RC(metal resiliant channel)as per drawing section(to follow after decisions are made) to furring strips. Horizontal and vertical layout precision critical for fastening gypboard
Next, cut(per drawing section) and fasten 1 layer 5/8" gyp board VERTICALLY to resiliant channel, with MINIMUM screws, caulking each joint as each new panel is placed. Joints at floor and ceiling to be detailed per drawing as decisions are made on ceiling/wall construction Tape and mud vertical joints. Mud over screws(details on fastening to follow)
Next, 2 nd layer 5/8" Gyp bd fastened HORIZONTAL, caulking each joint as panel is placed.Same notes as first layer. No taping untill ceiling is placed.

Solution option #2 INSIDE OUT WALLS. Requires standard wood framing, sheithing with 2 layers 5/8 gyp board on floor, prior to raising in place, with(optional) 1/8"x 4" foam sill seal(rollout) under wall plates at floor. Perimeter joints(wall to floor, wall to wall, wall to ceiling)detailing dependant on each wall construction design decisions, based on other criteria such as doors, adjacent spaces, HVAC etc etc.(section details to follow per decisions.) This type of wall allows for treatment within the wall void, with Rigid fiberglass panels between studs, with fabric(fire treated) stapled to studs, and wood trim strips placed over staples. Also allows for cable troughs, HVAC ducting, electrical troughs/outlets to be easily placed and within the iso room without showing. Also allows for slat resonator application directly as part of wall(rear 1/3rd)
Solution option #3. Standard wood Wall, with 2 layers 5/8 gyp board(per previous notes) with R(?) insulation at stud voids. This would probably work at the narrow dimension walls, front and back. Allows for membrane absorbers/ bass traps/diffusers at rear, and soffit mount speakers/corner absorbers at front, depending on final design.

Ceiling. Tough one. One option.(as I see it.)
Wood furring strip(2x4 on face), fastened to ceiling with construction adhesive and concrete anchors per layout to follow..
Risc isolation clips(link to follow) fastened to furring.(gives deeper air gap.)
R(?)insulation batts, between furring held in place per notes on furred walls(plastic straping)
Full length metal HAT CHANNEL fastened per manufactures detail to Risc clips.
2 layers 5/8" gyp bd. fastened via screws to Hat Channel(see caulking and orientation notes above and drawing details to follow)
Premount Risc clip isolated brackets for hanging of membrane absorbers, and absorbant "clouds" above mixing station per design.

Doors(unsure of location or quantity of doors yet, and codes are a consideration for fire)? For maximum isolation, should use DOUBLE DOOR/Jambs/seals/thresholds. Design and installation CRITICAL to match/maintain STC of wall/ceiling assemblies.

Well 11 miles. thats the way I see it at this point. Others may have other ideas , and this is by no means conclusive, or analyzed for modes, STC or in any other calculated acoustical criteria. This is only a PRELIMINARY construction set to give you some idea of what you are up against. This is all the time I have right now. There are MANY MANY other considerations and details to consider. We will cover these tomorrow.
Cheers
fitZ

 

[11miles]

HEy, Fitz!

You gave me a lot of reading and thinking with your last post.

I really dont know if i can get a hold of all the materials you described. Another problem is the actual laying out. Can i do it myself?

What kind of positioning did you have in mind for my ''room'' anyway?

About the floor. I spend some time in my room yesterday, while the masons were taking care of the outside. I realised, that i cant build another floor, and add another ceiling(not very thick, at least, because i will be to tall to stand in the room then!

I am glad you see a solution in mounting the gypsium board. i liked the idea very much fro the beggining. The thing that worries me a bit is how will that affect the sound in the room.
Without the absorber and resonator, bass traps and all, isn't the gypsium board equivelent for a good bouncing wall for sound?

You said the styrofoam is for sh**, soundwise? How is that? I would figure it stops a lot of sound going through. At least a lot more than normal foam,etc.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello again 11miles.....say what is your name if you don't mind me asking?
And do you mind telling me what country you are in? Might help with material availability research for me.

I really dont know if i can get a hold of all the materials you described.

Hence the research. Ok, most of these materials can be substituted. For instance-
ROCKWOOL can substitute for fiberglass insulation over there probably
Wood studs -you can get these, right? How about METAL studs.
Gyp Board...same since you mentioned it in your first post. Water resistant gyp board is probably available too. Its used around bathtub and shower enclosures for tile underlayment.
OSB-(Oriented Strand Board ) substitute with PLYWOOD or MDF. You must have some kind of wood construction panels available there.
Construction adhesive...? You tell me. Comes in tubes like caulking.
Acoustical caulking-silicone may work or I will find an alternative.
Rollout roofing felt. The stuff looks like a roll of heavy black tar paper with
white lines on it for alignment. Hmmmm, maybe I'm availablity spoiled here.
Screws--sheetrock screws, sheetmetal screws, wood screws(I use sheetrock screws for most everything. One other thing. I know it probabaly is not available there, but I use what is known as "Robertson" head-or "square head recess" screws instead of phillips.
Nails....if you don't have these there, don't start this project
Resiliant channel-well, may have to use alternate solution if it isn't available. You will have to tell me by searching for it in your area. I'll post a pic.
RISC iso clips...we can order these here and ship them or maybe you can find a distributor in Europe. But you still need metal HAT CHANNEL. Call a sheetrock distributor or insulation contractor. I'll post some pictures of both of these. And tell you the quantity. Or we will design an alternative.
Doors. You have to tell me what you are using. I will tell you HOW to modify the doors correctly WITHIN REASON
Seals/thresholds. You will have to ask around about this stuff. Here is what we are trying to do. Imagine a gasket like a refriderator seal completely around the doors. May have to settle on foam weather seals. We'll see. I'll post some pics so you can see what I am talking about.
Concrete sealer. This is a must. It prevents mildew, and moisture accumilation. Normally, all homes breath via venting, but in a studio, the room is sealed. But then........YOU have to breath. This is where we have to talk about HVAC or ventilation. WHAT DID YOU HAVE IN MIND? Anything? What is the seasons like there? What were you going to do for hot and cold weather?

Another problem is the actual laying out.

Don't worry about that right now. Containment of sound is the first priority. Within this context, some acoustical treatment will be incorporated in the construction. I will PRECISELY show you EVERYTHING via drawings, pics, and instructions. Don't worry.

Can i do it myself?

I don't know, can you? Just kidding with you. Ok, this is where you have to have confidence in your self, and trust in me to tell you EXACTLY how to do these things. I have been a builder for 20 yrs, and my job for the last ten years, is to tell a shop HOW to build.
What you have to do is understand the physical process it takes to do each thing. You will GAIN confidence as you accomplish each step. I will show you each and every thing you must do to build this. However, skills are not the only thing you must have. Tools are another prerequisite. I will tell you each tool you will need. You might have to buy a few small ones or rent, borrow or ....well nevermind You know what I mean. Tell me, have you ever built anything before? See my pic. It is ONLY an example of even TOOL SETUP so you will understand each required step. Even machining your doors. Maybe even your console, if you don't have one. See the pic of mine that I built 10 yrs ago. I still use it.

What kind of positioning did you have in mind for my ''room'' anyway?

Positioning? Do you mean orientation of the mixing station? Or design of the actual studio? This will come AFTER we determine what materials are available for containment. No sense in designing something you can't build because of lack of materials, ok? I will tell you this. It will be COOL! My first criteria for myself is it HAS TO BE FUN to be in there!! Listen, I am the KING of using things at my disposal to build interesting and fun projects. I use all kinds of stuff than normally are not used by people. I have a complete woodworking shop, and build TONS of stuff, even for selling on EBAY. Right now, I have four art and diffuser projects for my studio, cabinetry jobs, lamps, tables, console stuff, computer iso racks.....etc etc etc..... so I know how to use wierd stuff.
Anyway, so much for that. It will be cool.

About the floor. I spend some time in my room yesterday, while the masons were taking care of the outside. I realised, that i cant build another floor, and add another ceiling(not very thick, at least, because i will be to tall to stand in the room then!

Well....thats why I put a (?) on my drawing for the EXACT height, floor to ceiling. Look, when I ask for something, I have a reason. When you build, you CANNOT guess. I am a detailer and HAVE to know what the fuck I am dealing with. Your first post said the ceiling was 2.7 meters, correct. Thats 106 1/4", which is exactly what I drew the elevation at. But that by NO means is what I would detail this from. So.....this is what I want you to do. Take TWO sticks, at least half the distance from floor to ceiling. Put them togeather with you hands, and slide them vertically so one touchs the floor, and one touchs the ceiling. This will give an EXACT height. This is called a FIELD DIMENSION. Now, mark the end of the lower stick on the upper stick. Now you have a permenant record of this dimension. Simply lay it on the floor and measure it with your tape or whatever you measure with. Understand? Now do this in EACH corner of the room, and in the center of the room so we know what differences we are dealing with. Also take a level, and see what the floor level is in EACH direction, at EACH WALL. We want to know the HIGHEST point in the floor. Once we know that, and the heights, we will know how to approch the floor/ceiling construction and shimming for level.
As far as the finish height and being able to stand up whats a matter, don't you like to mix on your knees? Ha! just kidding. If your original estimate was correct, thats 106", which if we subtract 10" for floor and ceiling thickness, we still are left with 96", which is the NORMAL height for a room. But again, my assumption is based on YOUR dimension. But you can't ASSUME anything with this stuff, comprende? Ok. Cool, so take the field dimensions. We'll deal with the PRECISE dimensions of the room itself after your wall is built.

The thing that worries me a bit is how will that affect the sound in the room.

Like shit. That is the point of treatment. AND how we will incorporate some of this treatment INTO the construction is precisely the point of determining
material availability. OK? Ok.
Well, I'm out of time. More later. Take you field dimensions and get back to me. Later.
See this for a tool illustration.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=112790

Here is a link to my server and some pics of the console I built.
http://www.psychossite.com/rkpics/46.jpg
http://www.psychossite.com/rkpics/47.jpg
http://www.psychossite.com/rkpics/37.jpg
http://www.psychossite.com/rkpics/51.jpg

fitZ

 

[11miles]

Fitz,

Thenks for your abnormal tolerance for my stupid quastions.

It's not that i dont understand english, it's just that htese construstion talk, is very new to me.
I'm sure you woul not fell very ''home'' if a couple of ballet dancers would start talking to each other about the spiral manouvres nad 2,5 forward twist with back hengesault, something...

SO i had to read it very careful in look up every 1 out of 2 wrds you laid on me.

ANd a half of it i still dont know where to put it.
But i am glad you filled in some pics, and promised to keep it up!

Anyway, just so you know.
I asked around some of my hometown ''studio building advisors'', and for my pocket they suggested my i should really look into a rockwoll.
Whn you mentioned the 3 isolation methods for the walls, i was wondering what kinf odf insulation did you have in mind?
I get the gypsium board and all, But what to put in between?
Rockwoll?


Oh about the name.
Yeah we use a different metric system, as you already noticed, with all the meassures were in metres.
It's funny really, the name.
Although i am from far away in terms of where you are, i have been a guest of these sort of forums for a while now, hence that i am ''only''23 years old.

But not in these studio uilding kind of forums, since you notice i am not yet familiar with all the phrases you use in building.

But i will. One day.
So i join a JCF forum regarding musical equipment, you know guitar amps and Pu's. I am a musiciamn by heart.
I like music and see myself donating it vast part of my time to ''her'' even in my afterlife, although i don teven believe in that crap. An understatement if you will.

Anyway i had to write a name. And the day before i watched The Doors- movie. You know?
And at the beggining Jim is singing ybout a snake or was it serpentine? 7 miles long. I was pretty wasted that night,(well me and other bandmembers) and i remeberd a funny phrase. Instead of 7 i remebered 11. And it stucked. I've been using it for quite som etime now. 3-4 years?

Oh about my whereabouts?
For your homework when you have the time. Look at the world map and try to find Slovenia! South of Austria and east of Italy!
No it's not a mountain or a lake somewhere in Russia . It's actually the coutnry i live in. A very beautiful one for that matter. But i am sure everyone has to say that about their country!

The masons are still in my ''studio'' so i cant do the meassurement just yet.
I'll get back to ya.

I think we'll go for the gypsium board most certainly. I have a friend who knows a friend.....gets it really cheap!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello 11miles how are you today? I woke up to thick dense fog this morning. Weather is changing by the day. I'm not looking forward to winter. Oh well.

Thenks for your abnormal tolerance for my stupid quastions.

No problem. Stupid questions? Not at all. That is what this forum is about. Just remember I am NOT an expert. Just more enlightened than I was when I joined this forum 3 years ago. Thanks to other members who were "tolerant" of MY dumb questions and Irish attitude

It's not that i dont understand english, it's just that htese construstion talk, is very new to me.

I think your English is just fine. In fact, you do very well for a Slovanian As far as the construction talk, don't worry, I will explain everything you don't understand. Actually, remember, this is a simple box. Just a box and nothing else but a box within a box A box has 6 sides. The key to building boxs is SQUARENESS. Once you understand this, you will see why I asked for "field dimensions".

I'm sure you woul not fell very ''home'' if a couple of ballet dancers would start talking to each other about the spiral manouvres nad 2,5 forward twist with back hengesault, something...

HOLY MOLY..... You bet! I'd look awfully funny in a ballet outfit too!!

I asked around some of my hometown ''studio building advisors'', and for my pocket they suggested my i should really look into a rockwoll.

Rockwool would work fine. Although, there is a specific density that you need for the airgap, and a another density for treatment, but I will post that later.
UNDERSTAND this principal. The BEST bang for the buck isolation , is what is known as a MASS AIR MASS assembly. Within the Airgap, you need insulation to absorb the movement of air molecules and DAMPEN the vibration of thedrywall(gyp board). This MASS AIR MASS is described as a TWO LEAF system. Your concrete floor, wall and roof, are the OUTER LEAF, and being concrete, is a great outer leaf. This is the EXTERIOR SHELL. The interior leaf will be the box within a box(gyp. bd. membrane walls,ceiling and floor), which MUST be DE-COUPLED(floated) from the exterior shell as ANY connection between the two leafs that is not a resiliant connection will completely destroy all your work and money. This means PAYING ATTENTION to details and patience.

I think we'll go for the gypsium board most certainly. I have a friend who knows a friend.....gets it really cheap!

Cool, we will calculate the amount you need. In the meantime, find out what materials and products are available to you there. Take each thing on my list, and see if you can find them or an alternative. Only then, can we determine our stategy for isolation. I will post some pictures of the hardware items so you know what to look for, and if you need, I can email you pics for printing so you can show the suppliers what you are looking for. Ok, I'm out of time again. I have MANY projects to finish this week, as I own a cabinet shop and customers are waiting for me. Talk to you later.

fitZ

 

[11miles]

Hey.
Still was unable to get the dimensions you asked me. The electrician came yesterday and re-routed all the cables, by breaking half of the walls
He did a good job. I told him he must be careful, for this is going to be a production room. Although he is ols, he understood and did a good job.
Hence, we dont know any bad electrician, do we?

2 questions.
How thick/wide, must e the air gap between the walls to become effective.
I doubt that an 1/2 inch is enough, or is it?

THe problem is that if the gap should be any wider than an inch, i would beg to consider doing it. You see, the room is very small as it is. Adding 4 inches of wall on each side, cuts down the room drasticly!

What do you think?
Again i am pretty tall, and lived in small room all my life. Luckily for me my brother moved away, so i am using 2 small rooms to live in. If i have any saying i would like to get as much as possible out of my room.
But i know that good sound proof wall prerequisite some space too.
Anyway i am all eyes/ears.

The HVAC?
DOnt plan on having any Ac, the heating is by a radiator/heater on the D wall. Its electrical and works by convection. Hot air raising. A really splendid thing if you like practicalness and steady temp. They are equiped with a digital thermostat.
The ventilation is also taking care of. well...
I have the window and the door, am i getting through?