I Cannot Write Song Lyrics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zaphod B
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So the Harry Nilsson approach won't work: "You're breaking my heart Tearing it apart
So fuck you!"

LOL, I've never heard her say the F word! I can just imagine how me singing it to her would go over.Like I said, I may, and probably will, just let it ride and wait for the next song to appear.

I find that every now and then, I'll take a look around at some songs I like and think "what the fuck is he/she singing about???" Okay...Come Together by the Beatles? the first line "Here come old flattop he come, groving up slowly" is a play on a Chuck Berry tune "here come old Flattop, he come moving up quickly" but the rest of the song?? I haven't a clue.

So screw the lyrics. If the music can carry the song, either most won't pay attention to it or they'll wonder what you're talking about. For me, the challange it making it rhyme and keeping the subject matter on track.

I usually start with a scratch lyric and then alter it to match the meter of the song. Another thing I try to do is make the lyrics timeless. I won't mention a current news situation unless it's going to be around for a long time. I mean Spudz McKenzie was the Budwieser dog in the eighties, but if there was a song mentioning him today, most people would wonder what the hell the singer was talking about. It's like Kiss by Prince "You dont' have to watch Dynasty...to have an attitude" To me, that's dated.I expressed this to someone on another forum and they said sometimes songs that mention what used to be, can bring the listener back to that time.Which is something I never thought of. Some day, I'll actually have to record all this stuff floating around in my head, but for now,It's college first.

My first class of the sememster is tomorrow and I'm here doing this??? LOL
 
when you got a good melody, lyrics can shed their logic and flow because the music does it for them - hence the elton/bernie phenomenon. try working up good melody first, then you might be amazed at what you feel you can get away with lyrically.
 
Zaphod B said:
Just can't do it, and I never have been able to. Well, I should say that I never have been able to write anything that's not laughably trite.

I can compose music in my head, but there are never any words there. It's like I have a big hole in my brain where the "lyricist" function belongs.

I'm otherwise literate - in fact, I've made a living writing technical prose, and quite well I think. And I've done some free-form poetry that was OK, but could not have easily or naturally been formed to any rhthym pattern.

It's kind of like having an eye for color coordination or an innate ability to draw things from the mind's eye - you either have it, or you don't. And for lyrics - I don't! :mad:

That's my daily confession. As you were!
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Just can't do it, I just can't write!
Anything at all that's not laughably trite.

I can compose music in my head, I can rattle off songs
I've hole in my brain where the lyric belongs.

I'm otherwise literate in technical prose
Quite proficient I think; you'd do well to suppose

That they could not have easily or naturally been formed
to a rythmical pattern approaching the norm
 
Just start writing. Something will eventually come. I started writing som elyrics one day, to a scratch track. After about an hour, I had these killer lyrics. I started to analyze them, and lo and behold....I had just used most of the words to Fadde To Black, by Metallica. :eek: Yep, when I was done, I had re-written the tune to my music. So, I started over, and came up with something better... :D
Then, I couldn't finish the song. Nothing fit. So, 15 years later, I got those old lyrics out, and re-wrote them to a tune EZ_Willis had. They fit pretty well. I'm not sure he will use them, but they sound good to me.... :D
 
Supercreep said:
Just can't do it, I just can't write!
Anything at all that's not laughably trite.

I can compose music in my head, I can rattle off songs
I've hole in my brain where the lyric belongs.

I'm otherwise literate in technical prose
Quite proficient I think; you'd do well to suppose

That they could not have easily or naturally been formed
to a rythmical pattern approaching the norm
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You make me sick! :D
 
Zaphod B said:
I suspect you're right. Damn, another project. ;)
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For every project I ever complete, I have a hundred or so partials, riffs, sounds, and semi-verse things. I told my wife I needed a 200GB external drive just to hold all the extra shit. She didn't laugh.
 
My take on lyrics

I have a take on writing:

First you have to decide what you are writing for. If you are writing for pop songs, you come up with the catchy hook first, then fill in the verse with some garbage.

Writing for yourself, you have an open book.

What I do is write a paragraph or two of complete mindless garbage before a verse ever comes out.

Subject=easy women at a strip club

Twisted dancing prancing lancing trances, believed that hats could stand on fences, spelled out wrongs and defenses of third-world passes. Lest we wander away from free thoughts, we dip our fangs into lard, and cough up the subjects of easily persuaded tarts to exhibitionist free-wheeling arts. Free lunches, they said. Then what, as I was lying in bed. The true meaning of the fine line between alive and dead; a personable poet, the mobility of circumstance & the apathy of dread.

Now the lyrics barely begin, just now, this bloated cow of a memory dipped in fantasy, of atmosphere dry and lusty, money clips transferred to lusting fists. While we are entranced by swaying hips into base quips; the mothership with painted lips through fogs of recreational drugs and drink sips, cigarette squared with glass ashtrays tip, behind the bar when the temperature tries to rise and faked hits on emotional plays turn into great tips.

Just gettin' started now... Ahhh... Warming up is important. Oh yeah, I can always just take the best parts out after I get a few pages.
 
northsiderap said:
I have a take on writing:

First you have to decide what you are writing for. If you are writing for pop songs, you come up with the catchy hook first, then fill in the verse with some garbage.

Writing for yourself, you have an open book.

What I do is write a paragraph or two of complete mindless garbage before a verse ever comes out.

Subject=easy women at a strip club

Twisted dancing prancing lancing trances, believed that hats could stand on fences, spelled out wrongs and defenses of third-world passes. Lest we wander away from free thoughts, we dip our fangs into lard, and cough up the subjects of easily persuaded tarts to exhibitionist free-wheeling arts. Free lunches, they said. Then what, as I was lying in bed. The true meaning of the fine line between alive and dead; a personable poet, the mobility of circumstance & the apathy of dread.

Now the lyrics barely begin, just now, this bloated cow of a memory dipped in fantasy, of atmosphere dry and lusty, money clips transferred to lusting fists. While we are entranced by swaying hips into base quips; the mothership with painted lips through fogs of recreational drugs and drink sips, cigarette squared with glass ashtrays tip, behind the bar when the temperature tries to rise and faked hits on emotional plays turn into great tips.

Just gettin' started now... Ahhh... Warming up is important. Oh yeah, I can always just take the best parts out after I get a few pages.
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I write pop songs and generally don't fill the verses with mindless garbage. :mad:

YMMV.
 
Wow!

You completely didn't get what I said. And I even got an angry face to boot!

How I might have offended you with my reiteration of some basic english/writing techniques?
 
Dogman said:
For every project I ever complete, I have a hundred or so partials, riffs, sounds, and semi-verse things. I told my wife I needed a 200GB external drive just to hold all the extra shit. She didn't laugh.
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Oh, yeah. And I'm also thinking of finding the time to do that as well as my ongoing home renovation projects, etc., etc., while playing taxicab driver for my two daughters! ;)
 
northsiderap said:
I have a take on writing:

What I do is write a paragraph or two of complete mindless garbage before a verse ever comes out.
Click to expand...
I think I see where you're coming from - you do a kind of semi-focused stream of conciousness thing to get your head around patterns and sounds, then start refining...have I got that right?
 
Yup

That sounds about right. This is one way I go about it. Another way is the 'speaking in tongues' method which I'll share if anyone's interested...

Comedian Dana Carvey said a person can be impersonated at a basic level. His impersonation of Ross Perot was, "A-jibba-jabba-jibba-jabba."

A song can be 'impersonated' the same way. It drives my girlfriend nuts when I sing along to songs on the radio, but make up my own seemingly nonsensical lyrics. But the lyrics aren't the important thing at this stage, it's the melody, rythym, inflection, and feel of the song. The lyrics will clarify themselves eventually upon the solidification of the aforementioned factors.
 
northsiderap said:
for pop songs, you come up with the catchy hook first, then fill in the verse with some garbage...
How I might have offended you with my reiteration of some basic english/writing techniques?
Click to expand...

You can illustrate your techniques without attacking a whole genre. You might not have meant an attack, but if so a rephrasing would help calm the waters.

Personally, I'm not offended by what you said, but it doesn't help make your points about technique. Your methods are interesting; you don't need to fog the discussion offhandedly.
 
Preconcieved Notions

I cannot be held responsible for your preconcieved notions based on my name... I am only 'Northsiderap' because I happened to write some songs for a rap group for a while.

My primary writing style is probably considered pop, although with heavy flavors of jazz and rock.

I have been recently compared to The Yes Band, Jim Morrison, The White Stripes, Don Henley and Michael Stipes. I get Simon & Garfunkel-ish once an a while. Pop is actually where my allegience lies.

I was speaking informally when I said 'garbage,' although a lot of pop verses that I hear are stinky and hard to kick through.

I'd also like to add that saying the word 'garbage' when referring to a verse is like thinking of your audience in their underwear - - - it reduces performance stress.
 
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Hey, I'm just reading what you write, no preconceptions. You said

"First you have to decide what you are writing for. If you are writing for pop songs, you come up with the catchy hook first, then fill in the verse with some garbage.
Writing for yourself, you have an open book."

So, I'm sorry man, your attitude was just not clear from those statements. It's not a problem with me, I'm just saying Be Clear. Your technique of writing is interesting to read about. You don't wanna let people get sidetracked.

I liked reading your description of "impersonating" a song. I use it myself but never thought of it clearly. It was more like a space-filler waiting for meaning. But logically, trying to capture the full flow of the sound before nailing down the words is much better. And "impersonating" is a good description that lends clarity to my thoughts. Thanks.
 
northsiderap said:
That sounds about right. This is one way I go about it. Another way is the 'speaking in tongues' method which I'll share if anyone's interested...

Comedian Dana Carvey said a person can be impersonated at a basic level. His impersonation of Ross Perot was, "A-jibba-jabba-jibba-jabba."

A song can be 'impersonated' the same way. It drives my girlfriend nuts when I sing along to songs on the radio, but make up my own seemingly nonsensical lyrics. But the lyrics aren't the important thing at this stage, it's the melody, rythym, inflection, and feel of the song. The lyrics will clarify themselves eventually upon the solidification of the aforementioned factors.
Click to expand...

This reminded me of a couple of things from a few big names in rock. First is a quote from Mick Jagger about what either Fats Domino or Chubby Checker said to him (I'll use Fats because that's who I think it's about). I got it from a musician's quote book that my sister has, and it went something like this:

Mick: "Fats Domino once told me, and this is very serious, that Rock and Roll lyrics should never be sung clearly..."

I remember hearing Robert Plant on Physical Graffitti and wondering: "WTF is he saying???" then I'd go onstage and sing the syllables, never really knowing what he was singing until YEARS later. ;) Even the "Led Zeppelin Complete" book got his lyrics wrong.

The second thing was something I do when I forget lyrics.I learned this off another great. Just sing anything that fits....doesnt' even have to be english or any language for that matter. I swear Steven Tyler has his own language that only he understands.Ever listen to him sing Back in the Saddle? "Fool's gold out of their mines, them girls are soakin' wet, no tongues drier than mine...I'll cum when I get baaaack". ...That "no tongues drier than mine"??? Listent to the way he pronounces that line LOL!! Anyway, I got this forgetting the lyrics idea from John Lennon in the movie Let it Be. The Beatles are on the roof of the recording studio (U2 ripped them off in a video and did the same thing) they were doing "Don't Let Me Down" and John completely forgot where he was in the song. So he sang something like "and flubb blubb vibble obble...etc...." and recovered when Paul did the harmony in the next verse.


J.P.
 
Oh, I've done that countless times while performing live. :eek: No matter how many times you have sung a song, sometimes your brain takes a vacation, and filling in with something that sounds phonetically similar is better than just dropping out entirely.
 
writing lyrics doesn't have to be like writing poetry. i agree that you can learn it from books or just sing what sounds good, and it can be part of a really good song. look at commercial songwriters like Dianne Warren. if you want to write something truly meaningful and artistic, that's another story. suicide might be a better option.
 
northsiderap said:
I cannot be held responsible for your preconcieved notions based on my name... I am only 'Northsiderap' because I happened to write some songs for a rap group for a while.

My primary writing style is probably considered pop, although with heavy flavors of jazz and rock.

I have been recently compared to The Yes Band, Jim Morrison, The White Stripes, Don Henley and Michael Stipes. I get Simon & Garfunkel-ish once an a while. Pop is actually where my allegience lies.

I was speaking informally when I said 'garbage,' although a lot of pop verses that I hear are stinky and hard to kick through.

I'd also like to add that saying the word 'garbage' when referring to a verse is like thinking of your audience in their underwear - - - it reduces performance stress.
Click to expand...

Man, I'd take you seriously if it wasn't for your avatar.

That's not you is it?
 
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