Songs from a Broken Corral

  • Thread starter Thread starter kurth
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Rob
very astute. No sustain pedal. Money's been going to prevent me from making my funeral plans , mate jaja. Yes I know pedals are cheap. But when you've been outside as long as I, resources for non essentials are limited. I had planned on getting a new piano too, at the same time, but something more important came up. And in my world, there are no safety nets. But I don't see planning my exit yet, or ever.

I try to play what's in my head. I use vst's to bridge between phrases. I'll try the reverb on the vst's.... and I'm sure you're well equipped, musically and intellectually, after all you're the mod...but the beat related to formula escapes me. When I was 13, I started as a drummer. It took me well after I had changed instruments to bass, to begin feeling the total rhythm , and I always go for the backbeats, esp when I'm kneedrumming. & that was over 60 years ago. But you'd have to give me exact examples for me to understand your beat criticism. My rhythms are what's beating in my head. And even thou, I wasn't a practicing musician for those 60years, those beats have always persisted, along with the melodies.

And I don't understand making a vst sound,or 'mimic' exactly like a real instrument. And about the only vst cello I've heard about that plays bowing is an ios app, using the pencil, and you've got to have 4 hands and two brains to make that work. Of course you can do all that stuff editing midi...if you want spend your life on a compu. I think a vst orchestral instrument attempts to illicit an emotional response connected to the nostalgic memory of the listener, but will never fool a real cello player. Many times ,when I'm overworking a song, I'll move the phrase a few microseconds to make the timing exactly correct. It usually requires trial and error. Sometimes I can hit it when i play,and sometimes I'm alittle late. Blame that on marshal mcluhan jaja...maybe too esoteric.

I play piano like a guitar player. I invert chords shapes. And hilariously, I just use 4octaves max. And I'll play the chord, starting with any note in the chord, or sometimes in the scale, if it contributes to the back melodies. But i'm basic on keys. Just learning to sing while playing, and enjoying it.

The public.... all I can say about the public is ...they're profoundly retarded. And that was the plan. So I'm uninterested in appealing to the 'public'. Van Gogh sold one painting his entire lifetime. As an artist, if you're not working on a 100year timeline, you don't understand the world. Regardless of the medium. And in 100 years, no one will know who taylor swift is...and good riddance. Now it's just another business model, like pharmaceuticals. There's a simple truth. Money doesn't equal intelligence, and success doesn't mean talented. In case you haven't noticed...the world is inverted.

thanks for your precious time/k
 
I'll give it a go. If you have a great sounding VSTi, you have to play it with the mind of a real player, playing the real thing. Strings are a great example. You probably have 6 or 7 common ways to make the sound. You can pluck it, you can use the bow - but if you bow, do you dig in and start quickly, or start slowly and gently. Up bows sound different to down bows. You can play near the bridge for a very different sound, or play nearer the neck. gently, nastily, raspy, noisy and loads of other techniques. If you use string samples a lot, like I do, you play with one hand on the keyboard, and your other hand will be working the mod wheel and probably the pitch bend. If you don't you won't convince anyone - no matter how expensive the sample package. Do it properly and you can even confuse yourself afterwards.

Moving a phrase might work, but it might just be best to play it in again.

Editing is not a chore, once you get better at it - but sometimes you can just cheat. One trick I do often, because I am not a proper pianist is to play in a melody using two fingers, so the notes are wrong, but the timing perfect - then I just put the notes right in the editor without shifting them in time. That way, the velocities are right, the timing is right and the notes work.

You must use a sustain pedal, or it just sounds wrong. Arpeggios are mostly played with pedal down, doing a release and restore on the chord changes.

If you cannot hear these things - then you have a decision to make. Ignore the comments and carry on regardless. Or improve. If you really cannot detect these things, then I'm not sure if it's something you can learn now? You've been making music a long time and if it hasn't clicked by now, it might not be possible. As you are happy with what you're doing, it's totally fine - and as you don't worry about perception by others, does it matter?

If you want to understand how string VSTi decent samples work - I strongly recommend watching SPitfire Audio videos and the Crow Hill ones. They do walk throughs of their packages and you see how they should be played. Also consider watching Guy Michelmore's youtube output as he's a great composer and does lots of VERY convincing orchestral stuff. Your viewpoint is quite at odds with how people are doing it?

Rhythm wise - it's very loose. Like some bands I've been in! Everyone fighting with the timing and the accents they decide are the right ones. If you listen to your tracks, as they have no percussion, the actual beat is really difficult to follow.
 
Try this. All the strings are samples, along with the orchestral instruments, bar one track which is a real stringed instrument and two ‘fake’ ones. Huge amounts of time put in here to make the things as real as they can be.
 
Rob....hey sorry but I've got lifethings to deal with, and haven't had time to address your posts. I do appreciate them and have some thoughts. I did a cursory listening again to Monetsgenpiano, and maybe the first two entry instrument phrases are off by a microsecond, but after that they feel good...to me. Your critique of 'loose' rhythm goes over my head. There's a couple of places my playing is off, but generally it does what I hear in my head. And I use the mod wheel but not pitchbend. Can't stand pitchbend. Maybe a lead guitar synth would use one. The sustain pedal, or two and an expression pedal for my new T4 Nektar will be somewhere down the road, if I'm still alive. But... I don't believe in planning anything...

....not too pleased with the nektar. Weighted keys are hard to beat. But my casio is w/o aftertouch & expression, so .... I'll have to learn the curve.

One thing we have a difference about, is I view soundcloud like a sketchbook, not a finished product delivery system. You seem to think if it's online somewhere it should be Abbey Road. We see that differently.

And the strings on the last post, while expertly done, are not what I'm after. Yes, it sounds great and when I have a string section at my disposal, I'll reconsider. I believe Spitfire has a string vst that has all those string movements , and you use it like a drum machine or a piano roll. Forgot what it's called ...'motion' ? I'll settle for close enough for horseshoes but no banana.

thanks again for your precious time/k
 
Cant stand pitchbend? Then emulating so many instruments is out. I tried.
 
I gave them a listen, Kurth.
They are different from each other, different instruments.
I think you're not really a singer, just like Johnny Cash.
I say just do your thing. If you get 60 together, some kind of style should emerge.
You could then pick the best for publishing.
 
Slouching Raymond said:
I gave them a listen, Kurth.
They are different from each other, different instruments.
I think you're not really a singer, just like Johnny Cash.
I say just do your thing. If you get 60 together, some kind of style should emerge.
You could then pick the best for publishing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for listening Raymond. I hope they're different. Who wants alot of songs that are indistinguishable from each other. & I told you guys....& Johnny Cash was great. I have no ambitions to be more. These are registered with the mafia...ah i mean govt, so I haven't considered doing more. Publishing is something I haven't investigated. The truth is....it looks like it'll all fall apart soon anyway. And then you factor in AI....well, for me this is more, for me, a spiritual quest than anything else.

...& man...I've probably done my thing more than anyone you've ever met. At that, I'm an expert. 365 x over40yrs as a totally free man. And somewhere in there I raised a family who are my only real treasure. Here's an old website, but gives you an idea.
kurthbousman.wordpress.com

Kurth Bousman...or my doppelgänger

meanderings, illusions, and pure fables
kurthbousman.wordpress.com kurthbousman.wordpress.com
thanks for your precious time/k
 
Cellos don’t have frets so to go from a B to a C quickly means a quick slide. Plus of course strong players waggle their fingers. If you enter a B going to C with a music keyboard or worse a mouse, means it doesn’t sound right. The only other thing is the open strings. They cannot ‘wobble’. Every instrument has these restrictions or rules. Pianos have to fit two hands. Some combinations are impossible. Trombones can only slide if you don’t want a gap. Even guitars. You could play an A on an open string and Fret another and wobble it. That means TWO tracks on a sequencer!
 
rob aylestone said:
Cellos don’t have frets
Click to expand...
Not entirely true, Rob.
Do you remember the story of the cello player who smuggled a banned camera into Queen Elizabeth's coronation,
and took a rare famous photo?
I saw a photo of him and his cello, and it had frets!!!!
 
rob aylestone said:
Cellos don’t have frets so to go from a B to a C quickly means a quick slide. Plus of course strong players waggle their fingers. If you enter a B going to C with a music keyboard or worse a mouse, means it doesn’t sound right. The only other thing is the open strings. They cannot ‘wobble’. Every instrument has these restrictions or rules. Pianos have to fit two hands. Some combinations are impossible. Trombones can only slide if you don’t want a gap. Even guitars. You could play an A on an open string and Fret another and wobble it. That means TWO tracks on a sequencer!
Click to expand...
Rob...isn't 'waggling' & 'wobbling' called vibrato? I've been thinking about a physical pedal. Behringer has a new cheap one with exp pedal. When I have a new lease, I'm going to learn the nektar. Have you played an ipad surface app, like thumbjam or ifretless ? And there's always using the guitar as a controller. And while I love the piano...I've got small hands, &am definitely considering a korg microkey61 in my toolkit, to be able to reach farther. Simple solutions. But I have to reiterate...emulation of the real instrument isn't my goal. I'm sure I could hire a decent cellist where I live for 50bucks for a session, if I ever decide real is absolutely necessary. Lots of musicians in Mexico. And there's always the organ.

In artistic terms , you're a photo realist. That's cool. It's a thing. One day you'll walk into a Xerox shop and order a Leonardo Davinci or a Van Gogh....and it will 3d print a painting indistinguishable from the original. It certainly won't make us appreciate art more. But authenticity was why I used real harmonicas in billy the kid..... or before the dawn. Even if I didn't know how to play one jaja.
thanks
 
Slouching Raymond said:
Not entirely true, Rob.
Do you remember the story of the cello player who smuggled a banned camera into Queen Elizabeth's coronation,
and took a rare famous photo?
I saw a photo of him and his cello, and it had frets!!!!
Click to expand...
yeah you can definitely buy fretted cellos, etc. there's also a cheap stick on that apparently works well. I read the trick to playing a fretted cello is, you play the actual fret, not the space. but she's not ...she's playing the space. There are no truths.
 
Last edited:
We're diverting, but hey ho.
Cellos, violas and violins can indeed have frets (when double basses have them, they're called bas guitars he he) but you can only have one - so no good for an ensemble, because a string section sounds gorgeous because every player gets pitch wrong. You place a C, and so does the player next to you, but they are a teeny bit sharp, so you sort of creep up to their picth, but they noticed they were sharper than you and they go lower. If somebody on the other side is also off a bit - the entire bunch are constantly creeping up and down a tiny amount, trying to create coherence. With frets, you cannot play many standard techniques, particularly slurs, where a slide up or down is required. It's easier to play in tune, of course, but is not really a standard cello any more, it's a specialist version - great for some music, but useless at others. A bit like a valve trombone. Sounds like a trombone, and usually dead in tune, but rubbish for big band. Better for some orchestral styles. That video would have sounded better on a conventional cello I think. Vibrato would be fixed at the pretty small amount upwards that you get when you press the string hard.

Kurth - yes waggling and wobbling are really just vibrato. Not sure I could do it with a pedal. It's possible to assign aftertouch to bring in vibrato - that works quite nicely - but velocity sensitive keys, aftertouch, pitchbend and mod wheels work for me, although some people use even more knobs and faders to control different parts of the sound. Remembering which VSTi does what, is quite hard.
 
you never answered whether you use/play an ipad? It's pretty intuitive for waggling. The trick is to have foam cushions beneath so the accelerometer works. Your explanation about string ensembles using microtonal adjustments is interesting. thanks
 
I've never played an ipad as part of making music? I don't think I know anyone who does? - What software would let me experiment with it? Music keyboard and a mouse sum it up really for me?
 
I watched the video, hoping he was going to actually play a melody, but I know that that is the worst ever way to play a cello sound. So many things he turns on or off, with no way to change it. The actual VSTi sounds capable, but that is a ridiculous and tedious way to make music - and none of his finger wobbling on the pad remotely sounded like how a cellist would do it. That keypad layout didn't seem to even have any accidentals? How can you make music with it??? I just looked at the blue mango software videos and the only playing is with on screen keyboard or crazy finger shapes on pad screens?

It seems OK for setting parameters and buttons but not for playing music?
 
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