R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
bgavin,
Check your email.
Weston Ray
Weston House Recording
Check your email.
Weston Ray
Weston House Recording
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
c7sus said:
Thanks C7sus...For the life of me I couldn't get the link to work from davisound website. It must be the 200 year old Netrape browser the big B is still using.
SoMm
A
acorec
Banned
I read the website and what I get out of it is two fold:
1. He does make custom equipment that YOU design. In this case, you are working with him to create something uniqe that will solve your problem. There is no standard that the custom piece must be judged against except YOUR standard. I accept this.
2. He has some equipment that looks to be part of his standard line. Although these are "hand-built", they are not custom components. In this case, he is competeing with other companies who make similar components.
In case #1, no standards apply.
In case #2, every standard applies.
That is my take on this topic.
1. He does make custom equipment that YOU design. In this case, you are working with him to create something uniqe that will solve your problem. There is no standard that the custom piece must be judged against except YOUR standard. I accept this.
2. He has some equipment that looks to be part of his standard line. Although these are "hand-built", they are not custom components. In this case, he is competeing with other companies who make similar components.
In case #1, no standards apply.
In case #2, every standard applies.
That is my take on this topic.
Sky Blue Lou
Well-known member
I want one...er, some!
lou
lou
L
littledog
New member
I apologize for coming in on this fascinating thread so late, but I don't get here much these days.
If a company is making purely one-of-a-kind custom pieces, I can see where their return/refund policy might be very restrictive. But it appears to me (and I am hardly an expert on Davis-Sound) that they are selling a number of standard configurations of gear, like the TB-6, which are not custom designed for each customer from scratch.
If that is true, that would make buying from Davissound similar to buying from Lawson, who also makes high quality audio gear which is sold only directly from the manufacturer.
The difference is that Gene Lawson is confident enough about his product that he guarantees your satisfaction or he will gladly refund your purchase price. Given that the Lawsons can't be borrowed from local dealers to test, this is a very comforting policy. And if Gene can do it, I don't see why Hayne Davis can't.
Hopefully raising this issue won't result in a bout of apoplexy from C7sus.
If a company is making purely one-of-a-kind custom pieces, I can see where their return/refund policy might be very restrictive. But it appears to me (and I am hardly an expert on Davis-Sound) that they are selling a number of standard configurations of gear, like the TB-6, which are not custom designed for each customer from scratch.
If that is true, that would make buying from Davissound similar to buying from Lawson, who also makes high quality audio gear which is sold only directly from the manufacturer.
The difference is that Gene Lawson is confident enough about his product that he guarantees your satisfaction or he will gladly refund your purchase price. Given that the Lawsons can't be borrowed from local dealers to test, this is a very comforting policy. And if Gene can do it, I don't see why Hayne Davis can't.
Hopefully raising this issue won't result in a bout of apoplexy from C7sus.
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
I think you're GREATLY missing a BIG part of DaviSound...
Does Lawson build the mic specifically for the client AFTER it's ordered? Do they keep ANY finished product inventory to ship to a client when an order comes in; even if it's just a very minuet inventory?
The difference is that each and EVERY product, whether it be custom or standard (for "best bang for your buck" convenience), is hand-built for a client AFTER it is ordered! Not even one piece of finished product inventory!
THAT is the difference.
Does Lawson build the mic specifically for the client AFTER it's ordered? Do they keep ANY finished product inventory to ship to a client when an order comes in; even if it's just a very minuet inventory?
The difference is that each and EVERY product, whether it be custom or standard (for "best bang for your buck" convenience), is hand-built for a client AFTER it is ordered! Not even one piece of finished product inventory!
THAT is the difference.
L
littledog
New member
Recording Engineer said:
Not sure about the minuet inventory. But I do believe they keep an extra supply of gavottes, allemandes, and sarabandes.
J
jslator
New member
Recording Engineer said:
The only reason to do that in the case of a standard line product is to reduce the amount of cash you have tied up in inventory. It's a cost saving measure for Davisound, not a feature for the buyer.
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
That's right, for DaviSound it IS a cost saving measure... But ff you honestly think it's the ONLY reason for DaviSound, as well as NOT a feature for the buyer in a number of ways, you're gravely wrong!
And again, their "standard-line" is for "best bang for your buck" convenience. And as can be seen, ALL the benefits of "custom" applies in full to their "standard-line" as well.
And again, their "standard-line" is for "best bang for your buck" convenience. And as can be seen, ALL the benefits of "custom" applies in full to their "standard-line" as well.
J
jslator
New member
Recording Engineer said:
OK, so if I call up Davisound and tell them I want to buy one of their standrd 2-channel tube pres (or whatever), how is them not having any in stock a benefit to me?
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
If you consider WHY they don't have any of their standard Tool Boxes in stock, they are in-turn, benefits to the client.
They don't carry finished product inventory of even their standard gear because it simply takes TIME to manufacture each Tool Box. It takes time because of their manufacturing methods. Each one is hand-made, according to their design philosophy. And I think most understand all the benefits of hand-made.
These two links further explain:
http://www.davisound.com/Prices.html (
http://www.davisound.com/FAQs.html#visit
Essentially, it comes down to supply and demand...
They don't carry finished product inventory of even their standard gear because it simply takes TIME to manufacture each Tool Box. It takes time because of their manufacturing methods. Each one is hand-made, according to their design philosophy. And I think most understand all the benefits of hand-made.
These two links further explain:
http://www.davisound.com/Prices.html (
http://www.davisound.com/FAQs.html#visit
Essentially, it comes down to supply and demand...
J
jslator
New member
Recording Engineer said:
It takes time for any product to be manufactured. And being hand made and being made after an order is received are two different concepts that don't necessarily bear any relation to each other.
In fairness, any manufacturer will typically want to keep their inventory levels low enough that they don't have a lot of units sitting around tying up cash. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think passing off a lack of inventory as a selling feature is a bit much. I've certainly never heard any other manufacturer or producer of anything try that one.
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
jslator said:
Come-on man... We're talking about man vs. machine in relation to time in manufacturing...
And being hand made and being made after an order is received are two different concepts that don't necessarily bear any relation to each other.
Yes, they are two different things... One's a design and manufacturing concept which results in time during manufacturing and the other is just the way things are, as a result of design and manufacturing ways!
No, the two don't necessarily bear any relation to each other, but in this case, they do!
In fairness, any manufacturer will typically want to keep their inventory levels low enough that they don't have a lot of units sitting around tying up cash. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think passing off a lack of inventory as a selling feature is a bit much. I've certainly never heard any other manufacturer or producer of anything try that one.
DaviSound has never passed it off as a selling feature. They've only explained the simple reason for their lack of ANY finished product inventory.
I, myself, have NOT presented it as a selling feature, but simply consider it as a benefit for the buyer; as the lack of their finished product inventory is a direct result of demand in comparison to time it takes to manufacture, which is a direct result of their manufacturing methods, which is a direct result of their design philosophy. It's ALL relative. But if you want to call it a selling feature, that's fine, as it probably is.
willovercome
New member
i know i'm a dumbass...that's why i hang out here and get advice. but thanks C7sus for pointing it out to me one more time
J
jslator
New member
Recording Engineer said:
Come on. That's silly. Your feelings about Davisound are impairing your logic. If you're saying that hand-making them is a benefit to the buyer, I can buy that. If you're saying that he has a hard time keeping up with demand, I can accept that. But you're effectively saying that if Davisound had some time on his hands and nothing better to do, he still wouldn't build any units for inventory because his philosophy is that it's a benefit to his client not to build one until it's ordered. That's goofy. It's a benefit to his cash flow, not to his customers. There's nothing wrong with him being concerned about his cash flow. It is, after all, a business. So, why is it necessary to attribute some altruistic motive to his inventory policy?
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
You may be right... My feelings about DaviSound gear may be impairing my logic... Still, thus far, with the way I'm looking at it, I keep-on finding my logic pretty darn on-target! Anyone else not see what I'm saying here?
You fail to see that it's NOT an issue of policy, philosophy, or even decision, what-so-ever. It's just the simple fact that demand is always greater than supply. I agree that it IS a benefit to DaviSound cash flow, but I've presented what I find as logical reasoning of other benefits, which I, myself, see as beneficial to the customer. Yes, they're NOT direct benefits, but benefits that ARE all relative; HUGE ones at that, in my opinion!
That is NOT what I'm saying... Nor have I implied it! My previous paragraph confirms this!
Truth is, if DaviSound was sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for an order to come in, they sure as hell wouldn't be trying to make some finished product inventory of any sort for possible future orders, even if they wanted to! I'd imagine they'd be rather busy trying to stir-up some demand! Wouldn't you?
However, this has never seemed to be much of an issue for Davisound, if at all. I can at the very least, say that during the 4 years since I've known DaviSound, this has not been an issue. And in fact, you'd be amazed of the insanely long work-day DaviSound keeps in order to keep-up on demand!
DaviSound has not always only been in the business of building gear. They've also been in radio, console manufacturing, and sound system (schools, churches, hospitals, etc.) and recording studio installation. At one point, they were doing it all at once!
Over the years, they've slowly dropped things off. I know just within the last couple years, they've pretty much sworn-off installations, and for the most part, even sound system repairs, as it was taking too much time away from their gear manufacturing. At the same time, they finally agreed to come-out of their 10-year retirement of console manufacturing; this after a couple years of encouragement from your's truly. However, this is at a one-at-a-time basis due to the many hours consoles demand. They will NOT start another large-format console project until the previous console is finished, delivered, and installed!
You fail to see that it's NOT an issue of policy, philosophy, or even decision, what-so-ever. It's just the simple fact that demand is always greater than supply. I agree that it IS a benefit to DaviSound cash flow, but I've presented what I find as logical reasoning of other benefits, which I, myself, see as beneficial to the customer. Yes, they're NOT direct benefits, but benefits that ARE all relative; HUGE ones at that, in my opinion!
jslator said:
That is NOT what I'm saying... Nor have I implied it! My previous paragraph confirms this!
Truth is, if DaviSound was sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for an order to come in, they sure as hell wouldn't be trying to make some finished product inventory of any sort for possible future orders, even if they wanted to! I'd imagine they'd be rather busy trying to stir-up some demand! Wouldn't you?
However, this has never seemed to be much of an issue for Davisound, if at all. I can at the very least, say that during the 4 years since I've known DaviSound, this has not been an issue. And in fact, you'd be amazed of the insanely long work-day DaviSound keeps in order to keep-up on demand!
DaviSound has not always only been in the business of building gear. They've also been in radio, console manufacturing, and sound system (schools, churches, hospitals, etc.) and recording studio installation. At one point, they were doing it all at once!
Over the years, they've slowly dropped things off. I know just within the last couple years, they've pretty much sworn-off installations, and for the most part, even sound system repairs, as it was taking too much time away from their gear manufacturing. At the same time, they finally agreed to come-out of their 10-year retirement of console manufacturing; this after a couple years of encouragement from your's truly. However, this is at a one-at-a-time basis due to the many hours consoles demand. They will NOT start another large-format console project until the previous console is finished, delivered, and installed!