How much for a Davisound Mic All Pre?

[The Garage]

these people (myself included) are concerned that they can't hear the product before they purchase it. the fact that the site seems convoluted makes them even less confident about purchasing the product unheard. the fact that they don't get a very "warm and fuzzy" feeling from the company makes them even less confident as well. i recently bought a bad cat amp -- best sounding guitar amp i ever heard. wouldn't have know it unless i heard it. hell, wouldn't have bought it without hearing it. personally, i don't make thousand dollar purchases based on a few people's posts and the company's website. if i miss out on a good product, so be it. it certainly wont break me as an engineer and musician. but to say we should shut the f--- up and go buy behringer for voicing these concerns... kiss my ass.
-teddy

 

[chessrock]

Davisound and Sytek are apples and oranges at best.

That might be the case, for all any of us knows. Say, why don't we just go and pop the hood on both units and compare so we can find out for ourselves just how close they are.

Oh . . . that's right. I forgot.


Let's see . . . they're both in the same, general price range . . . they're both touted as the transparent, uncolored variety. I'd say the only real difference here is that one is used and/or endorsed by a ton of well-known engineers, many of whom would be instantly recognizeable names to any of us. One of the designers used to be a chief technician for a very popular and well-regarded console . . .

. . . while the other makes bizarre claims and statements in his marketing materials, is all "hush-hush" about the design, encasing it in epoxy so no one steals it (uh-oh. We don't want the Behringer guys to come out with an UltraDavis or anything). Has all of maybe two somewhat well-known engineers who have even heard of it, let alone own one or endorse one. Used to go under the name "Madam Cleo," and generally goes around barking at the moon in the South Carolina Woods.

F*&k it, C7. I'm just going to go buy the Behringer junk.

 

[chessrock]

So if Haynes Davis spent more time and money developing a better website that would somehow give him and his products more credibility?

It certainly couldn't hurt.

Considering that it's really his only marketing or communication vehicle with the potential buying public, it might not be a bad idea.

He could use a few plants, too, though. I think I'd make a great Davisound plant. Have him get a hold of me.

 

[Recording Engineer]

these people (myself included) are concerned that they can't hear the product before they purchase it.

And you actually believe being able to hear a piece of gear, under most circumstances, other than buying it and giving it a REAL run in your own studio for a reasonable amount of time, has benefits much beyond whether it is obviously absolute dog shit or not?!!!

 

[Recording Engineer]

Davisound and Sytek are apples and oranges at best.

That's for sure! Let's see...As opposed chessrock's comparison:

One plays the endorsement and name-dropping game, one doesn't.

One plays the review game, one doesn't.

One uses high-volume manufacturing methods, one doesn't.

One refuses to use high-volume manufacturing methods, one doesn't.

One company's consoles are still running the same as when installed, one company's associated consoles aren't.

 

[jslator]

All the info is here:
www.davisound.com

This Davisound guy seems like a real dick. He sort-of reminds me of Erik from Bombfactory.

 

[The Garage]

recording engineer,
when you buy a car, you don't test-drive it first? sure, it's not going to tell you every little quirk, but it'll give you a very good idea how the baby runs. well, that's my general policy for any $1000+ purchase. i dont plan on buying an expensive piece of gear until i've heard it on recordings and played around with it in a buddy's studio. are you telling me you don't listen to gear before you buy it? you just blindly pick one up or what? listen, if you've want to buy me one then it's settled. but i dont plan on making a big purchase until i've heard it.
-teddy

ps. so now gear is broken down into davisound and behringer? i could have sworn there were a few more manufacturers...

 

[jslator]

if you've want to buy me one then it's settled. but i dont plan on making a big purchase until i've heard it.

Same here. No ability to try them or hear them (especially when combined with a "no returns" policy) guarantees that I won't be picking one up (not that Davisound cares, I'm sure - they seem to hold anyone who posts to webboards in very low regard). I have to say, though, that I'm suprised anybody would think that to be an unreasonable position.

 

[tdukex]

How 'bout a big fucking

wah!

for all of you angels who don't like the Davisound website or Hayne's attitude.

Cry, cry some more.

Cry for Hayne.

Cry for Cain.

Cry for godsake, cry.

 

[jslator]

Avalon doesn't take that piece back. GC does. Or Mercenary does. Or whoever else you bought it from.

So what's your point, dipshit? The end result is that I can return it. Plenty of companies that sell direct have return policies. The bottom line is that if I can't hear it, try it or return it, I'm not going to buy it. And I honestly can't believe that anyone would think that it is an unreasonable position.

Sometimes this place is the biggest collection of dumbasses ever assembled.

Spoken like a true dumbass. You seem like a bigger asshole than the Davisound guy.

 

[jslator]

I guess you guys don't understand the concept of "custom" gear.

What's the bug up your ass?

I've got three custom built guitars here. A '74 Gibson SG (waited A YEAR for that one), a 77 Martin D-35L, and an 85 D-45L Custom. I couldn't play them before they were built.

And I suppose you had never heard or tried any other model of Gibson or Martin before ordering those, right? Don't you see a little flaw in your logic there?

Just head over to GC and listen to their stuff all you want in their shitty room (which is prolly better than YOUR shitty room) through THEIR monitors while some jackass is wailing "Stairway To Heartbreak Hotel" at 180dB. That's a good test drive.

What the fuck are you on about? People say that they wouldn't drop a significant amount of money on unknown gear built by an unknown manufacturer who seems like a bit of a prick without at least hearing it or trying it first, and you have a near-violent reaction to that?! Then you spew some incoherent babble about Behringer, Guitar Center and "Stairway to Heaven"?! Time to get back on your med's, I'd say.

 

[jslator]

I guess I'm pissed because Haynes Davis is building stuff I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BAD WORD WRITTEN ABOUT ANYWHERE, but all you guys wanna know is if he'll take it back.

OK, send me $1,000, and I'll custom build something for you that I guarantee nobody has EVER WRITTEN A BAD WORD ABOUT ANYWHERE. But you can't hear it or try it, I won't tell you how I'm going to build it, and if you don't like it, too bad - ALL SALES FINAL!! Deal?

If you can't understand that then buy the cookie-cutter stuff from a catalog and wait 3 days for the big brown truck.

Seems like you're the one with fucked logic, mi amigo.

What an asshole.

 

[The Garage]

first off, c7sus, don't worry, i'm not taking you too seriously cause you're a turd.
but, for the sake of this thread, i'll address you like you are a rational, open-minded person. i don't like spending money on shit i haven't tried out. if i wanted a custom avalon board, i would try out one of their preamps at a friend's place. not at guitar center, but a studio. and, c7sus, if i have to qualify my answer with personal experience with custom gear -- i've got a buscarino solid body. for a guy who knows anything about custom guitars, you'd appreciate that.
-teddy

 

[chessrock]

One plays the endorsement and name-dropping game, one doesn't.

Wow, that's interesting. Let's see, I got this from one company's web site:

http://www.davisound.com/DaviStories.html

And this from the other :

Oh yea, that's right. Mike (Sytek) doesn't even have a page comparable to that. I don't think he needs one. And about all those "names" . . . "

Where are they on his site? I can't find them, and I've looked everywhere.

One plays the review game, one doesn't.

Which could be taken another way. How often does a magazine review a product they feel to be inferior?

Only if it's for a company who advertises in their Rag. Which brings up another question: How often have you seen Sytek advertise in these rags? Unsolicited positive revies speak volumes.

One uses high-volume manufacturing methods, one doesn't.

Neither uses high-volume methods. Wanna' know Mike's sole source of distribution? Take a look right here:

www.ebay.com

That's it. And how many units do you currently see up for grabs?

One company's consoles are still running the same as when installed, one company's associated consoles aren't.

One guy's consoles are considered classics, while no one's ever even heard of the other guy's. Give me a break.

This argument is just plain silly.


I'm going to bring up one last and final point, here, and you can judge for yourself. A lot of top-name industry professionals have this to say about one company:

http://gearslutz.com/board/search.p...id=74317&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=sytek&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search


And this to say about the other company:

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_...-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=rec.audio.pro&lr=&hl=en

http://gearslutz.com/board/search.p...id=74318&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

 

[Scott S.]

Having built lots of designed and built lots of electronic gear myself

(and posted some of it for all to enjoy to enjoy on the net, for example)

-----------------

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=80&op=page&SubMenu=

---------------------------


I am familiar with all sides of the epoxy gooped internals argument, it gets discussed on the DIY boards all the time, and I can understand wanting to protect circuit ideas.

However, one thing to think about before buying any such device is:

How the hell is it going to get repaired when some dumbass hooks up something wrong and damages it, or there is a problem with a device connected to it, or it just breaks?

For instance, how about hooking up a RC coupled tube device with a bad ouput cap, oops an unexpected 150 VDC on the input of the epoxy gooped module.

Epoxy is good for environmental protection, but the parts in there all all subject to the same max voltage and current input ratings as always.

Not to single out Davisound, lots of other makers use epoxy too.

 

[jslator]

(incoherent ramblings deleted)

So, you prefer to base purchase decisions on random chance. Some of us don't and that makes us dumbasses? Well, I guess I can't argue with that.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Wow, that's interesting. Let's see, I got this from one company's web site:

http://www.davisound.com/DaviStories.html

Ummm... You forgot to read the header...

And this from the other :

Oh yea, that's right. Mike (Sytek) doesn't even have a page comparable to that. I don't think he needs one. And about all those "names" . . . "

Where are they on his site? I can't find them, and I've looked everywhere.

Yeah, there's not much of anything on that page... And half the links don't even work!

By the way, you're the one who brought-up the endorement and name-dropping stuff about Sytek, not me!

Which could be taken another way. How often does a magazine review a product they feel to be inferior?

Only if it's for a company who advertises in their Rag.

That speaks on the rags unlike what we're discussing here... Although, I think did just point-outone of the reasons DaviSound doesn't do the review thing...

Which brings up another question: How often have you seen Sytek advertise in these rags? Unsolicited positive revies speak volumes.

If suppose if they do for you... THAT speaks volumes!

Neither uses high-volume methods. Wanna' know Mike's sole source of distribution? Take a look right here:

www.ebay.com

Yes, of course I know Sytek's distribution... But the point? Ummm... Might want to double-check what I said. I mentioned high-volume manufacturing methods; what has NOTHING to do with distribution.

That's it. And how many units do you currently see up for grabs?

Not all that often... But since we're comparing, it's A LOT compared to DaviSound as I've seen 0 from DaviSound.

THAT speaks more volume to ME than a review of any-sort! Although, it's not a point I've never brought-up myself or talked-about before this thread.

One guy's consoles are considered classics, while no one's ever even heard of the other guy's. Give me a break.

This argument is just plain silly.

You're right, it is... As "considered classics" in general is a silly... There's A LOT of "considered classics" I sure as hell wouldn't want to own, or at other times, even use!

You're getting into "reputation based on past product here", which people on this BBS, yourself included, have snickered at in the past.

 

[Recording Engineer]

recording engineer,
when you buy a car, you don't test-drive it first?

Well you don't critically use your ears when buying a car; just make sure it "purrs" like it's suppose to when it's a nice car or doesn't "grind" when it's a clunker.

are you telling me you don't listen to gear before you buy it? you just blindly pick one up or what?

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But no matter what, my purchases are largely based on my past experiences and education.

In the case of DaviSound, where I didn't listen before I bought, my decision was based on (in no particular order) my curiosity from pictures, my experience as a recording engineer and education in comparison to all the text on the Davisound website, the DaviSound design and business philosophy, price, my email correspondence with DaviSound, the fact that DaviSound is a custom company, the fact that I like and prefer gear you're not going to commonly find in studios, and that I try to make it a point to tryout gear I can afford from companies most people have not heard of.

 

[Recording Engineer]

jslator, I find it rather bizarre you come flying in here at random with what seems to be A LOT of anger and/or resentment toward Hayne Davis himself... Supposedly from nothing but what you've read on the DaviSound website... What gives?

What this ALL boils down to is that EVERY single issue ANYONE has brought-up here has been addressed by Hayne Davis himself on the DaviSound website! If you can't accept his answers for one reason or another, then don't buy DaviSound gear. It's probably not for you anyway... You don't buy it. You won't buy it. Problem solved. End of story.

In the meantime, I've many, many hours using various DaviSound gear without complaint! In fact I'm extremely ecstatic!!! And if other people stopped putting in their orders, they'd have much more time for my console and there'd actually be a chance it'd be ready by sometime in the Fall! Not going to happen, so Spring of next yearis what I'm looking at... Oh well.

 

[chessrock]

You're getting into "reputation based on past product here", which people on this BBS, yourself included, have snickered at in the past.

Look, RE. You're basically clueless on Mike, Sytek, his product, his manufacturing etc. etc.

As much as I am clueless about Davisound.

However, my point is that they are both very similar in a lot of ways. Both of them have horrible web sites. One is garrish and overdone . . . the other is woefully lacking in information. Either way, none of them speak well of the company.

Another similarity is that neither of the guys play the name-dropping game, the endorsement game or the review game. And purposely so, because both are technicians who's sole focus is on the product. Hell, Mike doesn't even speak English all that well. These aren't marketing guys by any stretch.

Ultimately, you've got two companies with very similar philosophies. The difference being that one goes around over-hyping the fact that they're "not overhyped." A true contadiction in itself. Davisound boy puts together this garrish, annoying web site in order to spread the message that he's not a garrish company. Now that, to me, raises some red flags.

Not to mention the fact that, despite their lack of schmoozing and marketing hype, Sytek has managed to get positive magazine reviews and industry endorsements anyway. Now that amazes me. Magazines generally don't review products unless they're advertisers. For Sytek to get reviews like that without spending a single advertising dollar . . . and without ANY self-promotion really says something to me.

Shit, Alan surfs and posts on the boards, hustling his ass off all freakin' day and buys ads left and right in order to get the kind of press for SP that Sytek does while hiding in their little warehouse/shop in a small Chicago suburb . . . not even making so much as a peep unless someone tries real hard to draw him out of his cave.

I don't snicker at guys who can manage that. That's called "bullshit detector reports negative."