How many people copywrite their music before posting online?

[Jagular]

A little more reading on the subject. Please pay attention to what Musicrowlawyer says in this thread. Especially at the end. It's left a little hanging, but he cites chapter and verse on the subject toward the end. Also, there are a couple good links in the thread that other folks posted too...

http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3156&st=0

Here is the attorney's site...

http://musicrowlawyer.com/

And you can read what he has there about copyrights as well.

http://musicrowlawyer.com/articles

What I get from this is that by the letter of the law, the only way you can bring suit and collect full damages is to register the copyright. The question left hanging in the end is that there may be some wiggle room around that. But still, it sounds like it might be a crap shoot at that point.

Happy reading...

 

[JaQsonA1]

Technically everyone is right!

Here's a section from the book All You Need to Know About the Music Business. By Donald S. Passman:"Under United States Copyright Law, as soon as you make a tangible copy of something, you have a copyright. Tanigle simply means something you can touch. If the work is a musical composition, for example it can be written down, or just sung or played into a tape recorder. Once this tanigle copy exist, you have all the copyright you need.

Many people think you have to register in Washington to get a copyright. Not true. There are some important rights you get form registering, but securing a copyright isnt one of them.

What are all these rights you receive from copyrights?

Reproduce the work
Distribute copies of the work
Perform the work "publicly"
Make a derivative work
To display the work publicly

Everyone may want to get a copy of this book. The one I have is actually an older version but Im sure it will help everyone in one way or the other!

 

[Gidge]

Once this tanigle copy exist, you have all the copyright you need.

if someone steals your song and makes millions of $$$ on it, and you want to bring them to court, is it still all the copyright you need?....

 

[JaQsonA1]

Yep! This is from a guy that has been practicing music law for over 20 yrs and has represented tons of record companies, music publishers, managers etc. Fully read the post and it will answer your question in detail......

 

[Kelby]

The "poor man's copyright" may not be a substitute for full registration, but that does not mean that it is useless.

In copyright disputes, one of the core issues is often who created the song first. Being able to point to reliably dated evidence can be important in such a dispute. Postage dates can be such evidence.

Bottom line, if you aren't going to formally register, at least do something to ensure you have solid proof of when you created the song. Mail it to yourself, post it on a public web site, or something.

 

[dragonworks]

Will someone please steal my songs.

 

[mindwave_21]

Haha. I guess song stealing isn't as common as I thought it was. I do have a question about what a registered copyright covers though. Let's say I write a song and decide I want to make a revision to it (ie change the chorus around a little, change some lyrics, alter the melody). Does the registration cover that or do I have to submit the new version to the offices again? If you finish a song temporarily, register it, and submit it for some type of review, either here or at other sites where people have access to your mp3's, then decide to change it later to follow some of the suggestions, is it considered a different song, or will the likeness of the song be enough so that another registration becomes unnecessary?

 

[the Ozlee]

Kelby...

I totatly agree. The "poor man's copyright" is solely for the purpose of establishing "who" and "when" a work was created. This could be very important and should not be underestimated as to its value. Civil litigation can be a tough situation and is usually decided on what is refered to as the "preponderance" of the evidence, which is what the "poor man's copyright" is applicable to.

Ozlee

 

[rjt]

I must be stupid, I always buy into this debate. From what I have read so far here, some things which I believe to be true and others that are false. Creating the song in a tangible medium is your copyright..... but it is still darned hard to prove it in court. The poor man's copyright is essentially useless (IMHO) because: 1) It doesn't prove YOU wrote the song, only that you have a copy 2) it is "fakable" (open the letter, reseal it) 3) a number of entertainment lawyers on other site report that it is not admissable in court. An interesting point virtually all of the lawyers have made (those that specialize in entertainment law) is there is no single recorded evidence of successful defense of copyright using the "poor man's copyright." (in the United States.... althought one lawyer stated he could not find any successful cases in Europe.)

Another point, I looked into recording someone else's song on a CD, they wanted to charge me 10 cents per copy of the CD.... so, 10,000 copies would have been $1,000. Plus, if it is played on radio/tv etc there are royalties. Not that any of my songs would get that far

Anyway, here is what I wrote on another thread.

-----------------------------------
Alright, spending far more time on this than anyone should, I did a web search. Most sites say that mailing something to yourself is useless. Some say that it is useless, but do it anyway. A couple say that it is good protection. Here are some that I (biased point of view) found most helpful:

http://www.copyrightauthority.com/poorman.htm

http://registermycopyright.com/poor.html

http://www.musicbizadvice.com/scam.htm

http://www.riger.com/articles/copyright.html

I doubt if anyone will every conclusively "win" with this debate. My advice, do what you are comfortable with.

Take Care

 

[Gidge]

I doubt if anyone will every conclusively "win" with this debate.

from:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/

"I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration. "


"Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work."


"Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law."

i think one side of the argument has won.....

 

[D.M.A.]

yeah I only post songs once I have the copyrights,I would have done like alot of ppl on here but I rather be sure about my work.Especially when I know I'm gonna release this music to the public soon.

 

[mm2k5]

why cant u just do both? Mail to yourself to get it back quicker, and register at the Library for more proof. It would only cost like a buck more at the most.

 

[TFranklin]

Copyright - just do it...

If you can't afford to fight it in court, copyright it. The law is about money not justice. Sorry to be cynical, but common, none of you were born yesterday. The following link should get you started.

http://www.copyright.gov/

Peace,

 

[RonB]

If your song as had radio play. Would that be considered enough of a register?
I resently had one played on a local station and I am wondering all these things.

 

[AdrianFly]

My music demos are for fun and not worth the hassle. However, anyone uses my real name and/or photo without my permission (especially saying that I endorse so and so product) then I tear em a new ass in court.

 

[TFranklin]

Copyright - just do it...

If your song as had radio play. Would that be considered enough of a register?
I resently had one played on a local station and I am wondering all these things.

No, now you're letting everyone hear your song so they can rip it off more easily. In fact, they might beat you to the copyright office. Better copyright it now before someone else does. then you can use your submission date as "copyright pending" and be protected in the meantime.

Good luck...

 

[DogRox]

Copyright tidbits!

I have had some stuff copyrighted in the past.. and also done some studio work for other musicians and have been through the copyright process many times. But that was quite some time ago!

Here is a good tip.. if you are doing say MANY songs for a compilation disk, then instead of copyrighting ALL the songs seperately is to copyright the project as a whole!.. I dont know twhat the price is PER SONG.. it used to be 20$ last i remembered.. I believe it is twice that now. But if you do the whole project as ONE giving credit to all the musicians on it! as part of the copyright.. then it would be cheaper, and you ARE protected on each song on that project no matter what!

IF you DO have plans to release any of the songs individually, then it is required that it is mentioned that is is from SUCH AND SUCH project under the titel! No Biggy... you also can recopyright it LATER as an individual release!

But anyways if yoru into doing a full AOR project where the project is based on having the full cd anyways..then thats the way to go!


Correct me if i am wrong?!?!
Cheerz
Dog

 

[bilyum]

send it registered mail

with seals on the back of the envelope. easter seals, gold stars, address labels whatever.

If the time and date of the original mailing is stamped across seals on an unopened enevelope, how can someone else say they did the song first?

if they have enough attorney power, and your song is worth stealing?

the poor mans way should STILL be sufficient.

if some dikhed thinks your song is worth stealing to the point of litigation, and the unopened original is not enough to win your own song back?

well.....consider the obvious choices. and never rule out grievous bodily harm and an abandoned mineshaft when pondering said choices

 

[philboyd studge]

If your song as had radio play. Would that be considered enough of a register?
I resently had one played on a local station and I am wondering all these things.

Yes, and become affiliated with either BMI or ASCAP.

 

[Thorguitarist]

Bandreg.com

I got this from bandreg.com ... i found it interesting

Inclusion on the Band Register is an important step towards protecting your band, group, orchestra or artist name. Our new pre-registration AGREEMENT will help prevent needless band and artist name disputes. But for absolute peace of mind and name security you will need to register one or more trademarks, according to the territories in which you will be active and the categories of activity you want to protect (e.g. selling records, live
performance, merchandise).

In practice the trademark which the Band Register recommends as being most useful is the US Federal Trademark (or servicemark). This is available at a cost of $650 including preliminary advice and a comprehensive worldwide search. Start by opting for SUPER-REGISTRATION ($30) and you will receive a Trademarking Package by email with a step-by-step guide and preliminary search and advice. Then if you wish to proceed US Federal Trademarking will cost you just $620.

However, the service cannot guarantee that there will not be an objection to your registration during the period in which notice of registration is served. In this case we provide a legal response service costing a further $200. However, we will not allow you to incur this cost if the objector appears to have a very strong case against your registration. And we will allow you a very substantial credit against a further Trademark registration in a new or modified name.