House of Stone, House of Glass

[mjbphotos]

Edited to add:
Took the advice suggested, also brought the 'tag line' guitars down just a touch in volume, bringin up the rhythm guitars a touch, centered vocal and brought the double track way down.



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Sorry for posting another song so soon, but this one is hard mixing for me due to the multiple guitars. I did a lot of tracking last weekend, so catching up with the mixing now. I'm pretty happy with the guitar tones, but also recorded DI tracks of 1-4 in case I wanted to do something different to them.

Guitars 1 & 2 are rhythm, playing the same thing throughout, panned 100% left and right
Guitars 3 & 4 play a tag line during the lead sections, they're panned about 55% either side - playing an octave apart from each other.
Guitar 5 is just a lead guitar part at beginning and end, and is panned just a few percent to the left.

I had a few other rhythm parts, but decided to keep them out of it.
All the guitars have a hi-pass and a wide but not too deep scoop centered at 300Hz.

The biggest problem I hear is guitar 5 getting lost with 3&4 at times (not just when it happens to be playing the same notes) although in headphones it stays separate better due to the panning I guess.

Fresh ears appreciated!

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I think that the vocals are fighting for space at the moment.
There are a lot of guitars and the keyboard plus the vocals going for that mid range.

I like the bass tone.

I'd make the snare meatier and/or louder. The snare's volume also seems to duck extremely on some hits.

 

[kindafishy]

Guitar separation is coming across pretty decent to me. I can hear what you are talking about with the lead guitar. I think you can fix this just with a level adjustment, but I am thinking it is a bit subjective. I like to think of a lead guitar as something that works well at the same level as vocals. Even at the level it is currently at, it seems fine to me. It's okay if it is playing in and around the other guitar parts. It gives them a chance to be noticed as well .

Yeah, really like that bass tone as well. It cuts through well and plays nice with the guitars.

I am hearing what is coming across as a couple trouble spots here in my space that would benefit from some choice cuts. You do have some boxiness around the 350 area, some honkiness around 700 and a slight bit of harshness around 2k. These are all pretty slight. You could hunt around for offending tracks, but honestly, I am becoming more and more a fan of doing a little bus EQing here and there towards the end of a mix as long as my ears tell me it is good.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hey there!
Listening now.
The guitar riff during the intro seems a little sharp on the lowest note.
It doesn't stand out once things get going, but it caught my ear at the beginning.

I see a few comments about the vocal. I agree.

Sure, there's a lot going on but I think one solid vocal straight down the middle would carry better than the multi tracking you have going on.
If you want to keep the duplicates for effect (is it just 2 copies all in right now?), maybe have two duplicates hard left+right turned down a good bit.

I usually try to make double tracking really subtle. Turn it off and you miss it but it doesn't stand out, sort of.

Hope that's useful.

Liking the lead guitar work and tone.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[mjbphotos]

I think that the vocals are fighting for space at the moment.

Hey there!
Listening now.
The guitar riff during the intro seems a little sharp on the lowest note.

I see a few comments about the vocal. I agree.

Sure, there's a lot going on but I think one solid vocal straight down the middle would carry better than the multi tracking you have going on.
If you want to keep the duplicates for effect (is it just 2 copies all in right now?), maybe have two duplicates hard left+right turned down a good bit.

I usually try to make double tracking really subtle. Turn it off and you miss it but it doesn't stand out, sort of.

Hope that's useful.

Liking the lead guitar work and tone.
Thanks for sharing.

I must admit my guitar strings are getting a bit old, so may indeed be a little off on that A note. I just put ReaTune on the two tracks, and sure enough it's a little sharp.

The vocal is two separate takes, I had them panned at 24%, I just put them both on center and backed off the 2nd, and it does let it sit better.

Thanks for the listens!

 

[RAMI]

My favorite tune of your so far. The drums aren't quite there, but it's the most present and driving I've heard so far. The snare is a little card-board-y sounding, but it has its' charm for this tune. I think the vocals come can up a bit, and I think they'd cut more if the doubled track was lower. I find a doubled track can be as much as 10db lower than the main and still be very present.

Cool riff, cool tune.

 

[mjbphotos]

Took the advice suggested, also brought the 'tag line' guitars down just a touch in volume, bringing up the rhythm guitars a touch, centered vocal and brought the double track way down.

 

[miroslav]

Ditto to a lot that's been said.

I'll just add that I think if you adjusted the arrangement a bit it would help.
IOW...there's *always* a lot of stuff going on during verses/choruses/leads. It's all those extra guitars constantly riffing in the background and whatnot.
Try completely dropping some of that out in certain sections...and then ramp it up, bring in a second element on the next verse...and then all the elements for the chorus....then drop them back out again and go more basic on the new verse...etc.

It's like....everything starts at the same time and just keeps playing straight to the end, so there's no "arrangement dynamics"...if that makes any sense.
You could also drop the level on a verse...you know, bring it all down a bit quieter...then break it out loud again on the next....etc...etc...etc.

 

[mjbphotos]

Ditto to a lot that's been said.

I'll just add that I think if you adjusted the arrangement a bit it would help.
IOW...there's *always* a lot of stuff going on during verses/choruses/leads. It's all those extra guitars constantly riffing in the background and whatnot.
Try completely dropping some of that out in certain sections...and then ramp it up, bring in a second element on the next verse...and then all the elements for the chorus....then drop them back out again and go more basic on the new verse...etc.

It's like....everything starts at the same time and just keeps playing straight to the end, so there's no "arrangement dynamics"...if that makes any sense.
You could also drop the level on a verse...you know, bring it all down a bit quieter...then break it out loud again on the next....etc...etc...etc.

Well, there's only two verses. And during the verses, it DOES drop down to just the two rhythm guitars (from two rhythm guitars plus 2 tag line guitars plus lead guitar at beginning). Then another guitar comes (along with the organ) during the chorus to reinforce the chords (hadn't even reaiized I had that one there until I was remixing. So maybe just lowering the volume, overall, during the verses?

 

[TripleM]

I listened to the 4-6 version.

I thought the guitars sounded good. I like the grit in them. I like the bass too. Nice sound.

I personally thought the drums sounded fine.

There is kind of a "mash-in-the-middle" where the guitars and vocals are fighting each other.

The vocal performance sounded tentative. Like the singer was trying not to make a mistake vs really nailing the song.

 

[miroslav]

Well, there's only two verses. And during the verses, it DOES drop down to just the two rhythm guitars (from two rhythm guitars plus 2 tag line guitars plus lead guitar at beginning). Then another guitar comes (along with the organ) during the chorus to reinforce the chords (hadn't even reaiized I had that one there until I was remixing. So maybe just lowering the volume, overall, during the verses?

You make the call where/what....I just got the feeling that everything was going on at the same time all the way through as I listened....and that some more contrast would help bring out the different sections of the song.

Have you tried completely removing some elements during a verse or wherever... rather than just lowering their volume?
I think even with lower volume, it's still all there. Try it...it would be a more dramatic change between sections.

 

[mjbphotos]

You make the call where/what....I just got the feeling that everything was going on at the same time all the way through as I listened....and that some more contrast would help bring out the different sections of the song.

Have you tried completely removing some elements during a verse or wherever... rather than just lowering their volume?
I think even with lower volume, it's still all there. Try it...it would be a more dramatic change between sections.

Not sure what you are hearing. It's as I described it - only the 2 guitars (100% L&R) during the verses. Maybe it's the guitar reverb you're hearing that's muddying up the sound?

 

[miroslav]

I'm just saying try to create some contrast and add dynamics to the arrangement (not talking about mix/level dynamics).
I guess it's like what TripleM was saying about the guitars/vocals fighting each other throughout.

I dunno....maybe it is the delay/reverb thing that makes it sound like there's more going on than there really is with the guitars during the verses.
On the lead lines...are they double tracked or is that all delay?

 

[kindafishy]

From what I am hearing here, the adjustment in the guitars improved the clarity in the low and hi mids. I am still hearing a bit of what I would describe as honkeyness here in my mix space.

To get more specific, and rather than just saying "honkey", I ran this through REAPER to see if I could find the frequency range that I am picking up on. Now, it could be just my ears or just my space, but I tried ReaEQ on this latest mix with a -4dB cut at 700Hz at 0.65 oct and it really opened up the bass and the guitars. Might not be the same for you, but here it made a very positive difference. I would be really interested in hearing if you get the same sense in your space, or if it doesn't make a difference.

I am really liking this song. More so each time I listen to it, too.

 

[Tadpui]

Soundcloud really murders the high frequencies on MP3s don't they? I'm having a hard time telling if there's a chorus/flange on the guitars or if it's just SC demolishing the track. If it's an effect, I'd suggest trying a mix without it.

I like the vocal effects on the "suprise" part. I think that the two lead guitar parts interfere with each other a bit in the intro, but I think that it works well during the solo/outro. It sounds like a live jam between the two guitars, I like that. I'm on a new set of 5.1 speakers so take this with a grain of salt, but I think that the bass guitar could come up just a tiny bit. Either that or the kick could come down a bit. I just hear the kick quite a bit more than the bass. I suck at balancing the two myself, so I don't have any suggestions other than adjusting the relative levels between them.

Cool song, this is very different from the other few tracks that I've heard from you.

 

[mjbphotos]

I did add a stereo enhancer and a stereo phaser (0.1HZ speed) onto the lead guitar, but there is no flange or delay on any of the other guitars, just reverb. The 'tag line' guitars - there are two, each panned about 55%, one playing an octave over the other.
Fishy - thanks for checking out the EQ, I'll try that out on the individual tracks.
Tad - the bass guitar sounds a little loud to me, but that's compared to my usual mellower songs, too. I'll need to check this out on other systems to see what happens with it.

If anyone want to try it, the full Wav version in Dropbox

To those who remarked on the bass tone - pretty simple - Squire bass (with new light strings) DIed through Radial PZ Pre (pre EQ XLR out), light compression setting on ReaComp into PodFarm Silverface bass amp, no speaker cab sim.

 

[Mr Clean]

I really like this. Your mixes are getting better and better with each one, in my opinion. I think you could bring the vocals up a touch more as they seem to be fighting for space with the guitars in places. As RAMI said, main vocal up and the doubled down a touch more would help to clear them up.

I really like the drums and the bass. The bass has a very nice tone to it and the lines your playing are just about perfect for the track. Not too busy

Good stuff!

 

[FoulPhil]

Pretty good man. I think everyone already said what I was going to say, so good work

 

[dobro]

This is better than the last one you did. The playing comes across as better than the singing. I know what you were struggling with in terms of numbers of guitars on this one, so it was a frequency storm, but something to aim for is better separation - I've reached the point with my stuff where it's a case of 'less is more' for that very reason of getting better separation.