ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
So which digital rig or small amp can get a tone that's comparable to what this guy is getting?
YouTube - mastertheguitar.co.uk - Master That Riff! Sound/Amp Info
So which digital rig or small amp can get a tone that's comparable to what this guy is getting?
YouTube - mastertheguitar.co.uk - Master That Riff! Sound/Amp Info
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
the discussion wasn't about getting that guys' specific tone.
It was a general discussion. He said you can't get a good or big sound out of a small amp. "it can't be done" .... I said you can.
Also others said you can't get realistic sounds out of that digital rig ..... I said you can. And there are certainly lots of examples of getting good sound out of small amps and there's certainly lots of examples of getting good sound out of digital rigs.
The discussion was never about a specific sound ..... it was more general than that and I never said that you can get ANY tone there is out of anything. What I said was you can get good sound and big sounds out of both and you can.
M
mcmetal
New member
I use the Hughes & Kettner cream and cruch machines.Both are 1 watt tube preamp/amplifiers.1 watt will easily power a 4x12 cab.Maybe it won't drive a 50 watt speaker as hard but i'm happy with the tone i'm getting at low volumes.The ability to record at 4 am is nice too.
Most of us double track our guitar parts and track with less gain than we normally play with.We're manipulating our guitar sound anyway so after we layer a few tracks together we end up with the sound were after.What sounds good in the room doesn't always sound great recorded no matter how hard you drive a speaker.
Most of us double track our guitar parts and track with less gain than we normally play with.We're manipulating our guitar sound anyway so after we layer a few tracks together we end up with the sound were after.What sounds good in the room doesn't always sound great recorded no matter how hard you drive a speaker.
Muzzaman
New member
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
But what if that guys specific type of tone is the only thing that someone considers to be "good tone" or a "realistic sound"? Does it make that persons opinion less valid than yours? So the way that I see it this discussion most certainly is about getting a specific sound. The fact that you can't get "ANY tone there is out of anything" is exactly the point.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
No, in this discussion it was not.
He said you can't get ANY good tone out of a small amp. It would always sound small ...... go back and look. He DIDN'T say you couldn't get that specific tone out of a small amp. He said a good, big tone could not be gotten out of a small amp. That's not true.
And the other guys also didn't say you couldn't get some specific tone out of a digital rig. They said you couldn't get realistic sound out of digital period. That's also not true.
As soon as you get into specific particular tones then that changes things. But even that's not as definite as 'a small amp can't do it' or 'digital can't do it'.
I can't get a Marshall sound out of my Fender ..... at least not a good one.
And I ain't never gonna get a pedal steel sounding clean out of my Ampeg Reverbrocket.
And some bizarre space sound might only be doable with a digital rig.
Of course there are tones that are equipment dependent.
Specific defined sounds might very well only be able to be done with one thing or another.
But that was not the discussion ...... the discussion was 'Can you get a big, good tone out of a small amp' .... yes you can.
And 'Can you get realistic tones out of digital' ..... yes, you can.
You say you see it as a discussion about getting a particular tone ..... I say you misread it ...... no one I responded to when I first joined in was talking about getting a specific tone ..... it was far more general than that.
And lastly, I said repeatedly that everyones' opinions are valid when it comes to what THEY do to get THEIR tone. If small amps do what you need, then you don't really need someone telling you that you can't do it that way. They're wrong.
And if you prefer a digital rig, no one else can say that it just won't work if it does, indeed , work for you.
The discussion was really about people saying what they personally prefer and then others telling them they can't do it that way.
That's stupid ..... if they prefer it that way (either way) then obviously they CAN do it that way.
I was defending peoples' choices and never said anyones' opinion was less valid than mine ..... all I said was their opinion is not valid when it comes to telling someone else they can't do what they do and get good results when in fact, people do both and get good results.
Man this place gets tiring with people picking fights just for the sake of arguing ....... I'm done for a while.
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Double
New member
Just a side note: Check out the new Jeff Beck CD, all he used was a Tweed Fender Champ now that is a small amp.
One man’s tone is not another’s.
Thank the Gods
One man’s tone is not another’s.
Thank the Gods
Muzzaman
New member
You know sometimes this can be a stupid forum with all the squabbling about shit!
To the OP, buy the amp you think most suits as everyone's just gonna argue with each other over it otherwise!
Muzza
To the OP, buy the amp you think most suits as everyone's just gonna argue with each other over it otherwise!
Muzza
antichef
pornk rock
This $40 ebay Sears practice amp:
plus a trip to Hoss Wendler at Allen Speaker in Houston
equals awesome. Raw, rock tone that sounds great recorded. The amp itself can't overpower the sound of you brushing your teeth, so it's not good for much else.
Only thing is that it overheats after a few songs. But after cooling down, it's back in action.
edit: oh yeah, 8 inch speaker, and Hoss thinks about 1 watt
plus a trip to Hoss Wendler at Allen Speaker in Houston
equals awesome. Raw, rock tone that sounds great recorded. The amp itself can't overpower the sound of you brushing your teeth, so it's not good for much else.
Only thing is that it overheats after a few songs. But after cooling down, it's back in action.
edit: oh yeah, 8 inch speaker, and Hoss thinks about 1 watt
ranjam
New member
What a mucking fess I created. 
Oh, well. I'm often wrong, but I'm never indecisive. And when I say something, until it's proven otherwise, I don't waffle on my opinion. And that was the question; asking your opinion on an amplifier.
When people are long on opinion and short on confidence, they always start their defense with I've been playing 912 years......... I own more gear than God..... blah blah blah. So? I love to drive, yet no one should ask me what kind of car to buy. I've been having sex with a woman for over thirty years, but you shouldn't ask me about women. And I remember the first time with a woman; I just looked at my right hand and said Sorry, old friend, but you've been replaced. And when I played my first 'big' amplifier, I just looked at my Champ and said I wonder how much I can sell you for? Or did I say that to the woman?
The diaphragm movement is the bass response. There's no bass from a dome tweeter, and only slightly more from an 8" speaker rated for 50-watts being fed 1-watt of audio power. That's not my opinion, that's Gospel according to the laws of physics. Those tweed Champs sound fine because the speaker was 10-watts, and the lighter cone paper could move some air. Higher power speakers have a bigger voice coil and thicker paper. Tougher to move with 1-watt.
I ain't backing down 'cause there hasn't been anything I said that was 100% wrong. Can you get a good tone from that 1-watt amp? Depends on what your definition of good is. Does Dan Auerbach get good tone? I don't think so, but there is a lot of other Forums out there with crazy kids asking how to get his sound. Can you get a big tone from a 1-watt amplifier? Not until they come out with a 1-watt speaker, and the cone can move. That air movement is what makes it big. 'Good' tone is subjective, but you all agree on who has it, so there has to be some common denominator. And if you have to triple track to get a fat sound, why bother? Why not get it right the first time? That's like saying If you put this paper bag on her head.........
Anyway, use whatever the heck you want. My opinion isn't the only to do something. But it is an excellent way to do it if you want results similar to that Traynor video. If you want to sound like Wes Montgomery, take someone else's opinion.
Oh, well. I'm often wrong, but I'm never indecisive. And when I say something, until it's proven otherwise, I don't waffle on my opinion. And that was the question; asking your opinion on an amplifier.When people are long on opinion and short on confidence, they always start their defense with I've been playing 912 years......... I own more gear than God..... blah blah blah. So? I love to drive, yet no one should ask me what kind of car to buy. I've been having sex with a woman for over thirty years, but you shouldn't ask me about women. And I remember the first time with a woman; I just looked at my right hand and said Sorry, old friend, but you've been replaced. And when I played my first 'big' amplifier, I just looked at my Champ and said I wonder how much I can sell you for? Or did I say that to the woman?
The diaphragm movement is the bass response. There's no bass from a dome tweeter, and only slightly more from an 8" speaker rated for 50-watts being fed 1-watt of audio power. That's not my opinion, that's Gospel according to the laws of physics. Those tweed Champs sound fine because the speaker was 10-watts, and the lighter cone paper could move some air. Higher power speakers have a bigger voice coil and thicker paper. Tougher to move with 1-watt.
I ain't backing down 'cause there hasn't been anything I said that was 100% wrong. Can you get a good tone from that 1-watt amp? Depends on what your definition of good is. Does Dan Auerbach get good tone? I don't think so, but there is a lot of other Forums out there with crazy kids asking how to get his sound. Can you get a big tone from a 1-watt amplifier? Not until they come out with a 1-watt speaker, and the cone can move. That air movement is what makes it big. 'Good' tone is subjective, but you all agree on who has it, so there has to be some common denominator. And if you have to triple track to get a fat sound, why bother? Why not get it right the first time? That's like saying If you put this paper bag on her head.........
Anyway, use whatever the heck you want. My opinion isn't the only to do something. But it is an excellent way to do it if you want results similar to that Traynor video. If you want to sound like Wes Montgomery, take someone else's opinion.
Sky Blue Lou
Well-known member
That's funny. When people are long on bullshit and short on class they always start their defense with an attack on those who differ.
Just sayin'.
lou
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
the fact is I didn't attack ranjam even a little bit. I said his opinion is fine for him. I just didn't care for him telling other people that the only way was his way.
If he can't see that .... fine. It won't be the first time I've seen someone with a closed mind. No point is talking to people like that .... they know everything and they're always right.
It does surprise me that he's unable to see that I simply defended the idea that there are lots of different ways to do things including his and I defended his process to others but he apparently reads very selectively.
I'm gonna have to guess he's somewhat young 'cause more experienced players learn that. But to each his own .... which I have said repeatedly ...... however, some people aren't capable of courtesy or open mindedness ...... it's their loss. I don't care.
If he can't see that .... fine. It won't be the first time I've seen someone with a closed mind. No point is talking to people like that .... they know everything and they're always right.
It does surprise me that he's unable to see that I simply defended the idea that there are lots of different ways to do things including his and I defended his process to others but he apparently reads very selectively.
I'm gonna have to guess he's somewhat young 'cause more experienced players learn that. But to each his own .... which I have said repeatedly ...... however, some people aren't capable of courtesy or open mindedness ...... it's their loss. I don't care.
rayc
retroreprobate
I did some guitar recording this week and used:
The tiny portable Pignose - sounded great (little speaker great specific colour & tone).
A Peavey Blazer - sounded So So useable with a fair bit of in the box EQing - way too bright/brittle for my ears
A Marshall Super Bass MkII with a Tube Cube attenuator - sounded great & didn't burn my ears
DI through a tube coloured pre - nice enough
I WANT a Blackheart, Tiny Terror or Epi Blues Jr BUT they are all WAY TOO EXPENSIVE in Australia.
I use the marshall because I don't have a little tube amp - if I had the little tube amp I's use it. The 100w of Mashall power is wasted & inefficient in a house - hence the TC.
The tiny portable Pignose - sounded great (little speaker great specific colour & tone).
A Peavey Blazer - sounded So So useable with a fair bit of in the box EQing - way too bright/brittle for my ears
A Marshall Super Bass MkII with a Tube Cube attenuator - sounded great & didn't burn my ears
DI through a tube coloured pre - nice enough
I WANT a Blackheart, Tiny Terror or Epi Blues Jr BUT they are all WAY TOO EXPENSIVE in Australia.
I use the marshall because I don't have a little tube amp - if I had the little tube amp I's use it. The 100w of Mashall power is wasted & inefficient in a house - hence the TC.
J
jjjtttggg
New member
I don't really have any skin in the game here, but I've been interested in low watt amps, so I thought I'd try an experiment. A few years ago I put together a little resistor divider box that I could put between my amp and the speaker. At the flip of a switch i can go between the box being out of the circuit (1X), the box shedding 90% of the amp's output to the resistors and applying only 10% to the speaker (0.1X), or the box shedding 99% of the amps output to the resistors and applying only 1% to the speaker (0.01X). In every case the net impedance the amp sees is the same within a few %, although since I'm only using resistors I can't say the true frequency dependent impedance is exactly the same. I can say that the amp is working equally hard regardless of switch position. The idea was a poor mans soak box. I won't comment as to how well I think it works. This thread got me thinking so, I hooked the thing up to the amp and recorded a short little noodle in each of the three positions. I did not touch the amp settings. they were left where I last had played the amp and there they sit still. The only thing different between the three samples below is the gain on the mic since the volume of the output ranged from 1x at the 1x setting to ~0.5x at the .1x switch setting and ~.25x at the .01x setting. I have not measured the respective volumes in terms of SPL. In theoryt they should be about 1x, .5x, and .25x and they sound about that way to me. I adjusted the gain on the mic for each so that the recordings were at about the same level. Then I rendered each one as a sinc 192 mp3 file.
The guitar is a Les Paul. The amp is a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40w) on the mid gain channel with more gain than i should have used but i don't feel like doing it over. The 1x volume I would call "quite loud", but not "ear-splitting". No idea as to actual power output of the amp at that setting, but presumably somewhere between 20 and 40W, so that the other two settings would have been 2-4W and 0.2-0.4W into the speaker. Speaker is the standard Eminence Fender special edition that comes in the Hot Rods. Mic is Shure KSM-9 into XENYX 1202 mixer then to soundcard in computer.
So, which is which? I make no claim that it is or isn't hard to tell. Please no flames on the playing, these were one take each and on we go. I just wanted to see what kind of tone I'd with less than 1W going to the speaker...
Thoughts or guesses?
A - Jeff - The Music Hutch
B - Jeff - The Music Hutch
C - Jeff - The Music Hutch
PS - I deliberately did not adjust the amp between the settings or adjust any eq in the pre or in the DAW. If I were really looking to use my divider box when recording, i probably would make some of these adjustments, but I thought that would cloud this experiment.
The guitar is a Les Paul. The amp is a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40w) on the mid gain channel with more gain than i should have used but i don't feel like doing it over. The 1x volume I would call "quite loud", but not "ear-splitting". No idea as to actual power output of the amp at that setting, but presumably somewhere between 20 and 40W, so that the other two settings would have been 2-4W and 0.2-0.4W into the speaker. Speaker is the standard Eminence Fender special edition that comes in the Hot Rods. Mic is Shure KSM-9 into XENYX 1202 mixer then to soundcard in computer.
So, which is which? I make no claim that it is or isn't hard to tell. Please no flames on the playing, these were one take each and on we go. I just wanted to see what kind of tone I'd with less than 1W going to the speaker...
Thoughts or guesses?
A - Jeff - The Music Hutch
B - Jeff - The Music Hutch
C - Jeff - The Music Hutch
PS - I deliberately did not adjust the amp between the settings or adjust any eq in the pre or in the DAW. If I were really looking to use my divider box when recording, i probably would make some of these adjustments, but I thought that would cloud this experiment.
Muzzaman
New member
I really like this idea!
I should be able to tell but not sure. A = lowest power setting I would say.
Muzza
I should be able to tell but not sure. A = lowest power setting I would say.
Muzza
rayc
retroreprobate
The clipping would suggest C is the louder/higher powered of the three BUT that would also depend on the mic gain so I have NO IDEA!
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
It's hard to tell since all 3 clips sound like one of those plastic battery powered mini amps.
Muzzaman
New member
Oh aye good one! is that cos your expert ear can't pick out which is which? cop out just in case you get proved wrong!
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
Are you thick? The whole thing is pointless. Someone may as well post clips of 3 different farts and have you match them to the size of burrito that induced each flatus.
Muzzaman
New member
I'll have you find I'm definitely not thick! Sorry I can tell the difference and you can't not my problem. Somehow you seem to think you know what your talking about think your the thick one!