Home-Studio Amp

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I'll wait to see if anybody else wants to hazard a guess before posting which is which. So far we have:

A may be the low power clip
C may be the high power clip

and

Why can't we listen to burrito farts?

I don't think it gives anything away to say that one of these comments is correct, one is incorrect, and one is childish.

J
 
Actually two of those comments are correct - key word "may".

I have no clue.


lou
 
If you have any kind of ears at all, you can hear the differences. It's a D-G-A progression, and he hangs on the G chord at the beginning, and that's where you hear it first. There's a big full bottom end on clip 'A', a little less on 'B', but even less again on 'C'. The 'C' clip sounds good, but it's more mids and highs and doesn't have the bottom end of 'A'.
Flat out, they all sound 'good' by anyone's definition of good sound. It's recorded well, and would sound just fine on any recording mixed with all the other tracks. But 'A' just has more of that good sound. I wouldn't complain about any clip, but I would aim for 'A', and that's how I usually record. I'll say 'A' has the full 40-watts pushing some air, and that's where the full sound comes in.
Of course, if I'm wrong.... :o. But if I'm right....:p
 
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Hey Ranjam,

I admire like crazy your willingness to call lit ike you heard it!!! After listening to the tracks back, I have to say there's a teeny unfairness in the comparisons which I will explain... First, the reveal: Sample A is the 1/10th power sample. Sample B is the 1/100th power sample and Sample C is full out. I have the benefit of having been able to play around with each one, so when I listen to them, I was kind of surprised at the sound, because I hear it exactly as you do, Ranjam. Sample A definitely sounds the fullest... Here's where the unfairness comes in. Sample C was really loud and it was late at night, and I did not bother with my usual routine of full headphones to protect my ears a bit. The result, I think, is that with sample C, I perhaps wasn't playing as hard. That first G where you can really hear the difference between A and B really isn't there on C. All I can think is that I kind of pulled up because it was so loud (and my daughter already gone to bed 8))

Anyway, kind of an interesting exercise I think. Clearly the sub-watt sample sounded the thinnest, which supports Ranjam's premise, BUT, BUT, BUT I'm not sure I accept the idea that a sub-watt source CAN'T drive a speaker in a proportional fashion. There was pah-lenty of sound there, and it was not even a high sensitivity speaker. This experiment was not with a 1 W amplifier, though, but a 40W amp with 99% of the power bled away. The result I think is that the speaker wasn't really seeing a true 1% version of the signal. With the inductance and equivalent capacitance of the speaker, having all that resistance in the circuit just screws up the frequency response too much (I think). The 1/10th sample, on the other hand sounds quite good, and it truly played like a half volume version of the full monte. The 1/100 was just very different. Maybe Ranjam's right that you just need more than a watt to get a decent sound from a speaker, but I'm not quite sure. It is very conceivable to me that the result might have been much better if you presented the speaker with a proper output impedance from a 1W amplifier so as to truly deliver a 1/100th power version of the loud amp signal. The bigger question in my mind is whether with REALLY low power tubes you can create such an output signal to drive the speaker with. I'm not saying you can't, and I may one day build one of the ultra-low-power ampa just to find out, but based on this experiment, I'm a lot more enthusiastic about the idea of single ended 6V6 circuit something like the champ with a decent speaker cab...

Kudo's to Ray for picking sample C as the loud one. I'm not sure whether what you heard as clipping really is clipping in my pre or whether the sound was coming out of the amp that way. I certainly got no blinking lights, and I know I didn't clip in the sampling, but maybe I didn't leave enough headroom in the pre. If I did clip it my apologies. Getting the mic gain trimmed so as to provide a consistent level from all three samples was the basic idea of the whole thing so... I don't know... Oh well, wouldn't be the first time I've screwed up a track by recording it too hot!

Anyway, hope it was fun. Best regards to all,
J
 
C - 1X
B - .1X
A - .01X

To me C is the most pleasing and A is the least pleasing, so I put B in the middle.
 
ranjam said:
What little I know about speakers is this. Your treble response comes from the center of the cone, and your bass response comes from the outer edge.
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You may want to consider reading this. If direct linking does not work, search for Directivity in the title.
 
Lt. Bob said:
He said you can't get a good or big sound out of a small amp. "it can't be done" .... I said you can.
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Maybe you guys be talkin' past each other.

The big sound reference was directed at power chords. For live I agree because it takes power to drive the bottom. No 1 Watt amp's going to deliver a power chord live. I also agree with you but case-by-case.

For recording it's a mixed bag. I have quite a few amps, low power and 100 watters. The higher powered amps seem to consistently deliver the most satisfying gain tones for me. I'm not saying the lower power amps can't. Just my experience.
 
To reiterate the ACTUAL identities of the samples...

Sample C was the full power sample
Sample A was the 1/10th power sample
Sample B was the 1/100th power sample

Your link on directionality was very interesting, SONIXX... particularly in the statement that frequency response changes over as little as a 10 degree change in position relative to the speaker's axis. This could have affected my little experiment. In the samples above I had to reach behind the amp to change the selector switch on the divider box. I would swing the mic out and lean the amp forward each time I did this. Afterward, I'd put the mic back in the "same" spot. . . Was it within 10 degrees each time? I can't say that I was that careful. Could have influenced the sound to some degree I suppose.

As I already said, with more samples of different kinds of sounds, I think everyone eventually would come to like the sound of the full power setting (Sample C) the best, but I think that says more about my DIY power divider box than anything else. However, the fact that all three sounded at least somewhat decent, I think, strongly supports Lt Bob's argument that a low power signal CAN produce a good sound from a speaker.

I'll agree with several who've questioned a 1W amp for playing live, though, for 2 reasons... 1.) I think the mic would end up picking up too much of the other sounds on the stage and make mixing and monitoring a pain, and more importantly, 2.) It wouldn't be any fun! Part of the joy of playing guitar live (or otherwise!) is feeling the power of your guitar, not just hearing it. Whether the sound is good or not at the speaker, with a 1W amp, I don't believe you could feel it the same way (unless you blasted it in your monitor, which kinda defeats the purpose:)).

J
 
jjjtttggg said:
I'll agree with several who've questioned a 1W amp for playing live, though, for 2 reasons... J
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I would NEVER even consider playing live with a 1 watt amp or even a 5 watt amp. For me about 30 watts is the least I can deal with and I pretty much nowadays use my Mark V for even soft gigs. I was strictly talking about recording only although I know there are many who like a low wattage amp mic'd up for live use. I'm not one of them.
 
My vote is for the Fender Super Champ XD. Its all tube and can do about every tone you want. Too many amps are one trick pony's. I should know, I have had a ton. For $300 new it's a steal.
 
Sonixx said:
:confused:
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I don't use it for anything anymore because it's not clean enough.
And this is just for me BTW, I'm NOT saying anyone else shouldn't use one because a lot of guys do and get what they need out of them. The little thing is loud as hell as long as you're wanting a sound with some distortion to it.
So this is strictly my own personal preference.
But when I want a clean sound, I'm not talking about a 'tweed' type clean with a little tiny crunch to it. I want a pristine 'pedal steel' sounding clean without the slightest trace of breakup in it.
And, for me ..... the low wattage amps I've used won't get that clean at any drum competitive volume. Actually, the Orange won't get it at all. I can rock out with it and it'll keep up with a drummer just fine and so it may be nice for someone else.

And saying "I wouldn't consider" might have been a little strong because I do have a tendency to just grab whatever when I walk out of the house so I may even use it again sometime. But I'll be disatisfied with it all night because of the clean issue.
For my personal tastes though, I really need at least 30 watts and actually AIS, I use the Mark V set at 90 watts for almost everything I do including jazzy type gigs.
 
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For home use I like to use a ZT Lunchbox with a 6.5" speaker, an Egnater Tweaker @ 15 watts into an 8" speaker, a Vox AC4 4 watt, and sometimes a Blackheart Killer Ant, which only has 1/4 watt.
To these I usually add pedals, or use a multi-effect.
 
I have a fender blackface vibrolux reverb. 35 watts and all the tone and power I need
I also use a peavey minx 11o..i think it's 15 watts....and it sounds cool. also good for mic'd recorings
 
Diesel Rocker said:
For home use I like to use a ZT Lunchbox with a 6.5" speaker,
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I've been curious about that amp.

How's it sound in your opinion and is it really as loud as they claim?
For instance, could I walk in with it and sit in with a moderate volume band and have it heard over the band?
I imagine that it would require a pedal to get a decent overdrive sound.
 
I've tried some very low (5W or less) tube amps...and they can offer up some kick-ass tones for sure (just like some digi sims can...though not my personal preference for recording)...but I found the very low wattage amps often end being one-trick ponies, or they can have limitations...which is not surprising, 'cuz you can only get so much out of a small, low wattage amp design.

I currently still own only one very low wattage amp...an Epi VJ Head and 112 cab...which lately, I've been wondering what to do with, as I've not been using it much next to my other amps, but I still like the couple of tones it gets and because they sound a little different than tones my other amps can get.
All of my other "home" amps are higher wattage...nothing crazy, but not really very low wattage amps. Most are in the 20W-50W range.
It's interesting how some of the amps I have with slightly lower "numbers" can sound louder than the amps with higher numbers....so the wattage rating alone doesn't tell the tale. :D

Oh...and all of the amps are used with 112 cabs or as 112 combos. I just like the sound of a 12" speaker for guitar...sometimes I've even used a 15" speaker in the past.

Anyway...the main points are that you can get good guitar tones in a large variety of ways and also that you don't need to only consider very-low wattage amps just 'cuz it's a "home" use purpose. That said...I don't really have any volume restrictions when I play, though I don't always crank up real loud, but I certainly don't need to worry about waking up someone in the next apartment or the next room.

If you have any kind of "neighbor issues"...be it the family or actual neighnbors...then of course overall playing volume has to be a consideration, but don't think that something in the 20W-50W range is automatically going to be too much. You can tame the outside volume by using attenuators, putting some quilts over the amp, sticking the amp in a full clothes closet, making an iso box...etc...etc.
 
How's it sound in your opinion and is it really as loud as they claim?
For instance, could I walk in with it and sit in with a moderate volume band and have it heard over the band?
I imagine that it would require a pedal to get a decent overdrive sound.
Click to expand...
I think it would be heard over a jazz band, but a loud rock band would need at least the extension 6.5" inch cab. There is also the 12" Club, but it has compressed wood behind the speaker, so I thought it may be better to use a Lunchbox and a cab. However, the Club has bass and treble knobs, and a fx loop.
It sounds in the range of a lower gain Fender cranked. Some new people may be impressed by the volume, but it would be nothing too unexpected for an experienced guitar player, except for the size (rated 120db). I liked one review that described it as "chicory coffee", which is different than actual coffee(tube amp), but can still be good on it's own, if you like that flavor. It only has ambience, no reverb. Also only a tone knob.

With the additional 6.5" extension cab($99), it would be plenty loud. With "200 watts", 120 rms, 220 peak, you can even chug with it a little bit. I read one review where the specs were not too far from a Sunn Beta, although many would still prefer a Polytone. Gain sounds best between 6 and 7. It can go nearly full cranked without getting harsh. It is a very good for the money/volume/weight type of amp.

It has an output for 8 ohms minimum(could do 16 ohms also I think) for a cab that can handle at least 100 watts. A 2x12 cab would be the choice for players that want a more full range sound, and just use it as a head. Although mids is where the guitar cuts though in a live band anyway.

I am still somewhat new to guitars, around a year, but it is the "go to" for basement playing. Sometimes I just use a Roland Cube instead because it is quieter at night. I think it has a good tone with a Swollen Pickle in front. I rarely use it clean. I also plug a RP255 into it. With this setup, I could use some more pedals.:D
 
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