Good gear to start with (Pro Tools)?

[ForeignGround]

Hello friendly users of Homerecording.com,

I have spent enough time in other people's studios that I finally decided to start building my own. At the moment I have around $1700 to start buying gear with. I have messed around with a lot of gear but have been out of the game for a bit. I was hoping some of you would have some recommendations for good combinations of gear to get a home studio started.
For the present (and near future) I'm probably gonna be recording rock bands but I would like to be able to branch out.
I am definitely going with Pro Tools as my DAW as I have been working with it for a while and am familiar with it.
I have been looking into M-Audio gear such as the Profire 2626 (but maybe not so expensive).
I have heard positive and negative things about profire interfaces so I'm not entirely sure. Is this interface on par with the M-Box and the 003 say?
Also have been debating between getting M-Powered or straight up Pro Tools 9.
I definitely need some guidance in the Mic department (for recording drumsets, guitar/bass amps, and vox).

Of course I'm willing to spend more money, but I am generally looking for some gear that could get my studio off the ground for around 1700.
Any and all suggestions are welcome! (Also let me know if there's a better place to post this thread on the site!) Thanks.

 

[saads]

I would start with some basic room treatment, getting a PC setup to record, a pair of monitors, and an interface. Firewire is fine for recording, it comes down to personal preference mostly. You'll need at least 8 pre amp inputs if you want to record drums too. Some good options include the M Aduio you mentioned, the Presonus Firestudio, Tascam US1600.
This should get you started in the right direction:

How to Configure a Recording Studio Rig

 

[Guitargodgt]

The profire 2626 is solid. Try to find a B stock if you can (comes with full man. warranty) since that can save you a few hundred.

Starting from scratch is a little hard even on 1700 (assuming you already have the computer).

Mics, cable, stands, room treatment (unless your handy and can build them yourself) and monitors are going to quickly consume a lot of the rest of your budget.

I've had my profire for a couple years now, I can tell you first hand the pres sound better than a mbox 2. I've had a little bit of experience on a 003 (not the rack) and it's easily on par if not better than that as well.

As far as what version of pro tools to get, just my opinion but getting 9 is definitely worth it over mp8 for the latency compensation alone.

 

[Spare Dougal]

I'd definitely suggest going for the Tascam US-1800. I've got one and it works great for my portable setup. I'd definitely run Pro Tools 9 too. It's worth the extra little bit as some of the features that are taken out are going to annoy you in M-Powered, later down the line.

As for monitoring I'd look at the KRK Rockit Range. The RP6s are only about £100 (not sure in dolars) and and sound good for the money. I've recorded and mix a couple of records on them before. As for mics, I'd say start with a pair of large diaphragm condenser mics (try SE2200), a couple of Sm57s and something like a senheisser e602 for kick drums. This will be a start for recording drums and other instruments and you can build it from there.

 

[Sonixx]

I'd invest in mics and pres over Pro-Tools.

 

[Spare Dougal]

I'd invest in mics and pres over Pro-Tools.

Just wondering what your reasoning for this is? Understandably you need mics and pre's to record anything but if you're having to buy some software to do recording with, surely you might as well buy something that's going to last you and be able to cope with you developing? Buying a cheap DAW then upgrading later is more expensive than starting with a good DAW and then adding mics and pre's as you go along.

 

[moresound]

My vote would be to go with Reaper as your DAW ..... check it out then decide.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Here is my basic beginner set up for what you want...It's also pretty much what I have and use!

DAW - Reaper (free unrestricted demo, $40 to purchase license)
Interface - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 ($500, 8 preamps, 10 outputs, sounds great...really any of the 8 preamp units in that price range will work)
Mics - here is were others can help you more. I'd start with an MXL V67G (LDC for vocals, acoustic guitars and misc. $80), SM57x2 (Snare, guitar cabs, tons of other stuff), Kick drum mic (beta 52? others know more about this), pair of SDC for drum overheads and acoustic guitars.
Monitors - I'd go with something in the 8" range, like the KRK Rokit 8 ($500)

This should bring you in well under your budget...if you're in the US, other countries are way more expensive for this stuff. Ask some of the experts here about mics. I've mentioned a few, but you'll likely want: Pair of SDC (overheads and acoustics), SM57s (snare and guitar cabs), LDC (vocals, guitars, room), a kick mic for bass and kick. That is a good start for mics. Really, you'll spend $500 for the interface, $500 for monitors, $40 for for Reaper, and have $650 left for mics...a great start!

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Just wondering what your reasoning for this is? Understandably you need mics and pre's to record anything but if you're having to buy some software to do recording with, surely you might as well buy something that's going to last you and be able to cope with you developing? Buying a cheap DAW then upgrading later is more expensive than starting with a good DAW and then adding mics and pre's as you go along.

Reaper is not a cheap DAW. It is cheap to buy, but it does pretty much everything you'll need. It is full featured, has some great plug-ins, awesome support. I can't justify spending $300+ dollars more for PT when Reaper is so good.

 

[Spare Dougal]

Reaper is not a cheap DAW. It is cheap to buy, but it does pretty much everything you'll need. It is full featured, has some great plug-ins, awesome support. I can't justify spending $300+ dollars more for PT when Reaper is so good.

Fair enough. I've never really used reaper so I wouldn't want to comment. Seems to be worth checking out before buying though. I do most of my work in pro studios so my home setup has to be compatible and for the money Pro Tools is the shizzle. Far outweighs Logic/Nuendo/Cubase etc. If you can get a decent DAW for free (or £40) then yes spend the money on mics and pres... and some nice monitors.

I'd agree with the KRKs definitely, though I wouldn't necessarily say you need 8" range. I'm more a fan of the 6" range and actually do most of my mixing at home on NS10s and Tanny E11 which are 5 inch. I find it a lot easier to just the bottom end on speaker like this as you're not putting lots of low end into the room to make it boom. Especially when you're doing guerilla recordings in some unique places.

All personal preference though, I'm not say don't consider 8" speakers, but don't rule out the 6" rokits either.

 

[ForeignGround]

Wow, thank you all for the input!
I realize that I may have to spend quite a bit more than I had originally intended. Reaper sounds interesting, I guess I worry about compatibility as well, as all my friends have pro tools and are better at mixing than I am, haha.
Definitely considering the KRKs. I'm sure the 8"s are awesome, the 6"s are a little more in my price range, but I can't seem to find reviews of them anywhere.
Opinions on kick drum mics between the D 112, e602, Beta52, and D6? Or others?
I already have mic stands, cables, a computer and all the necessary instruments

 

[Spare Dougal]

Compatibility with friends is quite important, I'd say. It'd be a pain in the neck to have to keep converting back and forth and a lot of plug ins wouldn't be cross compatible.

As for the KRK 6", I can recommend them for the price. They obviously like the big megabooks KRKs, but they have the familiar KRK sound and like I say, I've tracked and mixed on them before and it came out pretty well. They are the best thing you'll get in that price range by a long way.

I'd go with the e602 on the kick drum mic. I love that for kick and it basically does what a D112 does with a load of 50Hz shelf rolled in. Nice big fat bottom end, but tight and with a good amount of the clicky top you need for definition. D112 is my reach to if the e602 isn't there. This is all subjective tho and you'll find engineers that dis agree. If you can test them out try that first.

 

[Guitargodgt]

I'd invest in mics and pres over Pro-Tools.

...and record said mics and pres into what?

 

[Guitargodgt]

I do most of my work in pro studios.

Then pro tools makes the most sense for you. The problem with advice is people are giving it from their own experiences. I'm not a pro tools guy primarily, but I'm not into pushing the daw I use onto other people when it doesn't fit.

I think pro tools 9 is worth it because like pro tools HD you actually have compensation for latency.

To put it into simple terms, say you have a plugin that introduces 2018 samples of latency (this is a lot and quite noticeable) pro tools m powered (I own it) wouldn't do anything about this introduced latency. Pro tools 9 FINALLY does, so it's worth the scratch.

As far as interfaces go, I say go with as much inputs and outputs as you can fork for. The Saffire was a good suggestion, the profire is a solid suggestion. You don't want to put yourself in a situation where you have to sell your interface to expand your I/O down the road. I'm also casting my vote for a firewire interface over a usb one. Even this is just preference though.

 

[saads]

The only situation in which I would suggest you go out and cough up the money for Pro Tools is if you've used it in the past, and won't have to learn it. If you're going to be a developing a learning curve either way, why not go with the cheaper Reaper (aye oh, rhyme ) ? It's not like you'll be missing out on anything. Also, if you think you'll need to transfer projects back and forth to said friends a lot, Pro Tools would be better. But if you want to collaborate with them on songs, ie get them to play an instrument and send it to you, then all you need is a wav file from them. In that case the DAW doesn't need to be the same.
As far as a kick mic is concerned, if you have the money just get the D112 and be done with it. You won't go wrong.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Mics are so damn subjective when it comes to drums. As you can see someone said they didn't mind the AKG D112. I fucking hate that mic on kick. lol

Kick mics are just something you have to research to find what you like. Tom mics are a little easier as there are a few sets that most like, and snare is pretty much to most either the safe sm57 or something in the like (audix i5 for example is another choice).

 

[cavedog101]

PT9 will get you everything you need. It interfaces seamlessly with other interfaces unlike previous versions that were totally proprietary. The latency issues are now non-issues. They're already up to PT9.03. The plugs are okay. If you know PT then this where you should go. Reaper is a very complete and nice program, easy to use, lots of features, beginner usable and friendly. If you didnt have experience at this I would suggest that also.

As for kik drum mics....I used to own ALL of them. I agree that the D112 sounds like crap on a kik unless its a very specific kik sound you want. One-trick-pony. But not a deal breaker. SM52 has a bit more upper-mids and way too much low end woof, but if thats your style... again a limited but quality mic. I like the Sennheiser e602 mic. Its got a lot of body and like most German made mics it does EQ really well. We use the Audix D6 live. Its a set and forget mic. Gives great results every time. I use ATM25's. A fuller range than most others. Easy to EQ. The problem is they dont make em any more. Occasionally you'll find a used one and most of the time one of the other bidders will be me. They are simply a killer mic on anything.

Another great kik mic is the Heil PR40. Thunder and lightning in a well built mic. RE20 is infinately better for kik than most other mics and you can use it for heavy rock guitars, loud screamo vocalists, horns, even intimate mandolins.

Kik drum mics, like anything, is subjective to your needs. They are just tools and you want to choose one that fits your purpose. If you only record a specific type of music then find what works for this. If you have multiple numbers of clients in with a vast array of kits and styles then something with versatility is needed. Since you have experience in Pro rooms look to what they used and the sound you liked. If you're going to do drum replacement then a 57 is your best buy for all the kit.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Yeah, I meant to write something about not really needing PT unless you need it for compatibility. I don't work with anyone else, so Reaper is awesome. Plus PT9 isn't ridiculously expensive, it's just one place to save some cash unless you really need it. I used to use PT, and almost bought PT9 before I discovered Reaper.

You may be right about the 6". I just know 5" isn't quite cutting it for me, the bass is always off. 8" seem good, but you're probably right about 6" being enough. I just don't really like 5" much...personal preference.

 

[Spare Dougal]

Then pro tools makes the most sense for you. The problem with advice is people are giving it from their own experiences. I'm not a pro tools guy primarily, but I'm not into pushing the daw I use onto other people when it doesn't fit.

Haha, the guy's asking for advice. He sent us his requirements and I suggested that he gets Pro Tools. The DAW he's asking about. I can only speak from my experiences, otherwise what advice would that be. I hardly think me saying that from the sounds of what he needs "Pro Tools is the best option" could be classed as pushy. Especially when if you read my later posts I said, if you can get a DAW for free (Reaper) then you should. I can't recommend on Reaper as I've never used it, but from those who have it would appear to be pretty good. You've just outlined why pro tools would be the best choice too so I really don't understand this comment.

Makes me laugh sometimes how defensive and passive aggressive people can be on these forums.

 

[Spare Dougal]

Yeah, I meant to write something about not really needing PT unless you need it for compatibility. I don't work with anyone else, so Reaper is awesome. Plus PT9 isn't ridiculously expensive, it's just one place to save some cash unless you really need it. I used to use PT, and almost bought PT9 before I discovered Reaper.

You might as well start on the free thing and upgrade if needs be. Learn what you actually need/like on the free stuff before you fork out for the other stuff. Plus if you buy a Tascam interface you get a free copy of Cubase I've just remembered. If compatibility isn't an issue.

You may be right about the 6". I just know 5" isn't quite cutting it for me, the bass is always off. 8" seem good, but you're probably right about 6" being enough. I just don't really like 5" much...personal preference.

Yeah like I said personal preference. I just know from all the recording I've done with portable systems in houses, hotel rooms and mixing at home, 6" is the best compromise for controlling room boom and being able to hear the bottom. I'd go for 8" in a tuned room.