good 80's/90's analog consoles/mixers.

[Farview]

Well, if it's really the "common mixing style" and "singular sound" then explain the Enforcer video that i posted in my last post.

The only thing that explains the Enforcer song is an extreme lack of budget. But it still has the guitars with no low end, and the lack of deep bass. The reason it doesn't have the huge reverb on the snare is the tempo of the song. The faster the song, the shorter the reverb.

About the drums, i'm well aware that a lot of sampled drum sounds were blended with real drums, that's why i'm actually using superior drummer myself and also because it is the only plugin that really has convinced me, a big thumbs up to the guys @ toontrack for creating a such a masterpiece! Superior Drummer also let's you do some unnatural things that you could not do with real drums which i absolutely love.

Actually, that's awesome. This means that you will probably only need no more than two inputs at once. Back to my other point about starting in the box, a two channel interface and a copy of Reaper will cost less than $200. That interface will still be useful for transferring from your analog setup to the computer in the future, so it won't be wasted. You don't even really have to pay for Reaper, if you don't mind the nag screen when you open it up.

Seriously, if you are just getting into this, you have a big learning curve with mic placement, gain structure, routing, effects editing, compression, EQ, etc... Do you really want to add tape machine calibration and maintainence on top of it?

A-DA MP-1 is the thing that you're probably talking about, great piece of equipment. I've actually thought that can you use that thing as an effects processor only if you have a tube amp already?

A lot of guys were using that with a power amp, some tube, some solid state

And i'm not using Dual Rectifier, i'm using Mesa Mark III Blue Stripe from 1988 and man, that sound is the best in the world, it gives exactly the sound that i want so i'm sticking with that. I would actually go as far and say that it is a old school Marshall on steroids. John Sykes used a Colissium version of that amp in the 80's btw and john sykes' guitar sound, out of this world. So yeah, my amp has the midrange that i desire for.

Awesome! I'm very familar with Mr. Sykes and his Coliseum. That should do nicely.

 

[Simppu]

Well, the sun will come up tomorrow...but no one has to believe that either, they can wait for it.

I actually like the guys who want to do it all by trial and error, on their own...rather than just show up here asking for someone to tell them what to do. A lot of us did it that way...before there was an internet...
...but few guys these days are up for that, not to mention, it can be a costly path.

The smart guys know how to reap the experience of others, but if they are going to be skeptical about everything...then they can do it the hard way, with trial and error and $$$.

Oh boy, we'll see about the trial and error. Not that i've never done mistakes, especially when i bought line6 ux1 instead of a real amp.

 

[miroslav]

And if Hair Metal is the last thing you need the older gear for, then why no one has made that with ITB?

Well...I guess I'll be the one to break the news to you.
No one makes it anymore because it was god-awful music back in the '80s...and it wasn't helped by any "vintage analog sound."

(That's just my opinion...so don't let it stop you from doing Hair Metal).

And yeah i have cubase 5...
... i've not even tried to produce and record songs to it and probably will not

So you want someone else to prove it to you...but you won't take the time to try it and prove it to yourself...?

 

[Simppu]

The only thing that explains the Enforcer song is an extreme lack of budget. But it still has the guitars with no low end, and the lack of deep bass. The reason it doesn't have the huge reverb on the snare is the tempo of the song. The faster the song, the shorter the reverb.

Actually, that's awesome. This means that you will probably only need no more than two inputs at once. Back to my other point about starting in the box, a two channel interface and a copy of Reaper will cost less than $200. That interface will still be useful for transferring from your analog setup to the computer in the future, so it won't be wasted. You don't even really have to pay for Reaper, if you don't mind the nag screen when you open it up.

Seriously, if you are just getting into this, you have a big learning curve with mic placement, gain structure, routing, effects editing, compression, EQ, etc... Do you really want to add tape machine calibration and maintainence on top of it?

A lot of guys were using that with a power amp, some tube, some solid state

Awesome! I'm very familar with Mr. Sykes and his Coliseum. That should do nicely.

Actually that band is signed to Nuclear Blast so they have all the resources to make a decent record.

And i have a cubase 5 already but i'm just using to utilize my laptop as a drum machine with superior drummer. And yes, because that's the way to get the sound that i want.

The A-DA is actually listed as a effects processor here. I was actually thinking that i might get the yamaha spx90 as a effects processor tho.

Rad 80’s Rack Effects | Tone Report

Well...I guess I'll be the one to break the news to you.
No one makes it anymore because it was god-awful music back in the '80s...and it wasn't helped by any "vintage analog sound."

(That's just my opinion...so don't let it stop you from doing Hair Metal).




So you want someone else to prove it to you...but you won't take the time to try it and prove it to yourself...?

I've literally linked two bands here already that are trying to mimic the sound of that and you say that no one wants to make it anymore because it was god afwul music back then? Not to forget bands like crashdiet, reckless love etc.

Also a lot of people are still listening to those bands today and they think that their music is great, but yeah, i can see your agenda now. You think that i'm now going to take your word for what's going to help me get the sound if you don't even like the music in the first place, wew lad.

Oh i need to prove something that you're claiming myself now? Why the fuck even waste time for it if i can just get the gear that i really want right away? :--D

 

[miroslav]

Why the fuck even waste time for it if i can just get the gear that i really want right away? :--D

You know what...I think you should get a tape deck and a console.
That will end this thread if nothing else.

Heck...if that's going to make you feel good about what you are doing....then go for it. Sometime you need that feeling.
Just don't be surprised and bummed out in a month or two after getting those things if you're in the exact same place you are now with Cubase.

Perception of reality is often clouded by false expectations...but WTF...you only live once, so you might as well experience the good and the bad.

 

[Simppu]

You know what...I think you should get a tape deck and a console.
That will end this thread if nothing else.

Heck...if that's going to make you feel good about what you are doing....then go for it. Sometime you need that feeling.
Just don't be surprised and bummed out in a month or two after getting those things if you're in the exact same place you are now with Cubase.

Perception of reality is often clouded by false expectations...but WTF...you only live once, so you might as well experience the good and the bad.

Well the one thing is that where am i now with the cubase, i ain't doing music even yet? i'm just testing the superior drummer out and experimenting with it, gosh.

And yes, i wasn't the one atleast that derailed this thread to the ITB crap.

 

[miroslav]

No one derailed the thread to ITB...people are trying to help you with the right choice of gear, but you seem to know better than anyone else here, even though you've never even recorded anything.
So you might as well not ask anyone here what tape deck or console to get...because then you have to also ask them to "prove" to you that's the tape deck and console for you. Why trust anyone about what is the best tape deck and console...?

You know best...get what you think is best.

 

[RFR]

I was actually thinking that i might get the yamaha spx90 as a effects processor

That was the processor of the day.

Still use mine.

You might want to look at the DX7 keyboards too. They were all over the place.

As to hair metal, it is coming back to some degree. Trends tend to return in 20 year cycles.

But usually everything is uodated, modernized, "new and improved".

Now, everything is loud and in your face.
Modern production values are a bigger factor than one would think in the sound of the final outcome.

As to agendas, i don't think anyone has one.

You're the new kid. Everyone is trying to help you, and there's hundreds of years of combined recording experience on this forum.
People have been quite nice and helpful to you, myself included.

When i say you won't get those sounds, I'm not trying to stop you.

I'm just saying you need to recreate the parameters that created that sound to begin with.

I've been in all the studios in LA where a lot of that music was created. They are nice fucking rooms.
Yes, I'm an 80s survivor I was there dealing with the likes of Mötley Crue, GNR, Poison, etc, before the world even heard of them.


Please, don't start to fight with the people that are trying to help you. No one has an agenda, and this is a good bunch of people.

Fight too much, and no one will be willing to help. And believe this, going analog, you're gonna need some help. Don't blow it before you even get your first console or tape deck.

 

[miroslav]

As to hair metal, it is coming back to some degree.

It only counts if spandex is involved.

Do you know what was the best thing about Grunge?
It killed off Hair Metal and spandex.

 

[RFR]

That's coming back too! But a more modern showered. Less heroin addicted version.

 

[Farview]

As far as why no one mixes that way anymore goes, it's basically because that production style is dated and out of fashion. Part of it has to do with the volume wars. If you stick the vocals that far out front, it sounds like crap when you smash the crap out of it to get it as loud as all the other music that is coming out now.

There were also a lot of things that you couldn't really do, that you can do now...so people do it, and it sounds different.

{edit}I took down the samples

 

[Farview]

Actually that band is signed to Nuclear Blast so they have all the resources to make a decent record.

As someone who has done albums for Nuclear Blast, I can tell you that they don't have the budgets you obviously think they do. Besides, depending on the era, sometimes the band just gets a check and they decide where the money goes. Sometimes a lot of it went up their nose. (true megadeth story)

The A-DA is actually listed as a effects processor here.

The MP-1 was a guitar preamp that had effects. some guys used it as a front end and plugged it into the effects loop return of their heads, but a bunch just used power amps. (ADA used to make power amps, iirc)

I was actually thinking that i might get the yamaha spx90 as a effects processor tho.

those should be pretty cheap about now. The big trick to getting those to sound great was turning down the early reflections.

 

[Farview]

It only counts if spandex is involved.
p

It still is involved, but it's called Spanx and it's worn under your clothes.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Maybe everyone here is trying to help me get to my goal but the problem is that they don't have anything to proof their points so i'm entitled not to trust them. And i'm not being offended or trying to retaliate or anything but i'm just being realistic here and i'm that kind of a person that i don't believe something until i witness it myself or someone shows me a good evidence of it. No hard feelings from here either.

You made the first assertion, that a 30 year old project studio mixer is the way to get the sound of music that was produced on professionally maintained large format studio consoles. Back it up with evidence or, as you state above, I am free to dismiss the claim and also point out that you already believe something without evidence.

 

[Simppu]

No one derailed the thread to ITB...people are trying to help you with the right choice of gear, but you seem to know better than anyone else here, even though you've never even recorded anything.
So you might as well not ask anyone here what tape deck or console to get...because then you have to also ask them to "prove" to you that's the tape deck and console for you. Why trust anyone about what is the best tape deck and console...?

You know best...get what you think is best.

It is a completely different thing that when i'm looking for help for something that i really want to be committed to than getting "helped" by offering options that literally won't give the results, and i didn't even ask you to offer the ITB as a solution.

If you're really this simple person and you just keep shitposting here, i suggest you to go somewhere else, cya.

That was the processor of the day.

Still use mine.

You might want to look at the DX7 keyboards too. They were all over the place.

As to hair metal, it is coming back to some degree. Trends tend to return in 20 year cycles.

But usually everything is uodated, modernized, "new and improved".

Now, everything is loud and in your face.
Modern production values are a bigger factor than one would think in the sound of the final outcome.

As to agendas, i don't think anyone has one.

You're the new kid. Everyone is trying to help you, and there's hundreds of years of combined recording experience on this forum.
People have been quite nice and helpful to you, myself included.

When i say you won't get those sounds, I'm not trying to stop you.

I'm just saying you need to recreate the parameters that created that sound to begin with.

I've been in all the studios in LA where a lot of that music was created. They are nice fucking rooms.
Yes, I'm an 80s survivor I was there dealing with the likes of Mötley Crue, GNR, Poison, etc, before the world even heard of them.


Please, don't start to fight with the people that are trying to help you. No one has an agenda, and this is a good bunch of people.

Fight too much, and no one will be willing to help. And believe this, going analog, you're gonna need some help. Don't blow it before you even get your first console or tape deck.

You actually went as far and said that i will not get the sound that i want with the way that i'm going to do it.

So you're saying that i need to recreate parameters that gave that sound? Well am i not creating it by getting the gear from that era instead of going ITB and using plugins?

No one said that i wouldn't do anything else to get that sound, of course i will, but you gotta start from somewhere no?

Look, i never were here to start a fight. Actually you and Miroslav started it when you started to shovel the fucking ITB crap down my throat even when i said that i don't wanna use it in the first place, you should've got it right away and stop talking about it.

And i'm not forcing to anyone help me, besides i've got plenty of information in this thread already before the ITB suggestions started to come out.

In nutshell, the logic seems to be here: "Oh, you can't recreate this one thing that they had, just give up and go ITB, you will sound like every other band these days but that's the only thing you can do in your situation".

Fuck that.

As far as why no one mixes that way anymore goes, it's basically because that production style is dated and out of fashion. Part of it has to do with the volume wars. If you stick the vocals that far out front, it sounds like crap when you smash the crap out of it to get it as loud as all the other music that is coming out now.

There were also a lot of things that you couldn't really do, that you can do now...so people do it, and it sounds different.

So here is something I just threw together. Now, obviously I'm not going to spend the 8 hours it would take to completely remix the song, get it balanced correctly and make sure everything was wonderful, but I spent a half hour just changing the sorts of things that would differ from what is normally done now. Because of the recording and the performance, I only had so much to work with. If I were trying to make something sound 80's, there would have been different mic positions and choices made

For reference, this is the real unmastered mix of the album version of the song. Both were normalized for easier listening.

I'm afraid to tell you but that doesn't sound anything at all that i'm looking for, that's exactly the same than the enforcer and battle beast. If that's what you get via going ITB, then yeah, people indeed were talking shit in here.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

literally won't give the results

Evidence please.

 

[Simppu]

Evidence please.

As far as why no one mixes that way anymore goes, it's basically because that production style is dated and out of fashion. Part of it has to do with the volume wars. If you stick the vocals that far out front, it sounds like crap when you smash the crap out of it to get it as loud as all the other music that is coming out now.

There were also a lot of things that you couldn't really do, that you can do now...so people do it, and it sounds different.

So here is something I just threw together. Now, obviously I'm not going to spend the 8 hours it would take to completely remix the song, get it balanced correctly and make sure everything was wonderful, but I spent a half hour just changing the sorts of things that would differ from what is normally done now. Because of the recording and the performance, I only had so much to work with. If I were trying to make something sound 80's, there would have been different mic positions and choices made

For reference, this is the real unmastered mix of the album version of the song. Both were normalized for easier listening.

Also check the Battle Beast and Enforcer that i posted here.

Your turn.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Also check the Battle Beast and Enforcer that i posted here.

Your turn.

You said "literally won't". That means the onus is on you to prove there is no other way. But don't bother, you're on my ignore list.

 

[Simppu]

You said "literally won't". That means the onus is on you to prove there is no other way. But don't bother, you're on my ignore list.

I gave you an proof and you're putting me on your ignore list? Wow, good luck with your life, and thanks for your info btw, now you can fuck off with ya. :^)

You know you've won when the other person runs away and puts you on ignore, the truth hurts.

 

[RFR]

Ok, I'm done.
People with experience are just trying to help you get from point a to point b the best most economical way. It's not an analog vs digital thing.

You're bitterness to any advice in an area that you are admittedly a novice in is astounding.

You want a genuine 80s/90's sound? Time travel back to one of those studios because even those very same producers don't do stuff the same way as they did then..

I'm all for you putting together an analog home studio, but you're turning out to be just an asshole.

We'll see how long you last around here.