drum bus questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter offcenter2005
  • Start date Start date
Greg_L said:
If you want big huge drums, don't gate anything. The RHCP's and STP get their drum sounds by having pro gear in pro studios with pro engineers and producers at the helm.
Click to expand...

If you're interested, the guy who mixes the RHCPs live is Dave Rat--he has an excellent blog about touring with them (and others) that you can find HERE. He's just setting out for a month mixing Soundgarden then straight into a couple of years of world tour with the RHCP. The blog mixes gossip about touring with some very useful tech stuff--it's worth searching back into the older posts of touring with the RHCP for some good sound nerdery about his techniques.

As for gates, they can be useful, getting more so the more mics you use on your drum kit. However, they have to be used sparingly otherwise I agree they start to sound artificial real fast. However, just a touch carefully set can cure bleed between sources and clean things up a bit.
 
Thanks for the link. That's good stuff just to read as a fan . What about using an expander ? Doesn't that really just bring the bleed level down instead of clamping it completely shut? The tail end of the drum being slammed shut is what makes gateing destroy the realism of the sound. I've read how some will swear by gateing and others who say never do it unless its a last ditch effort due to too much bleed . Any tips would be great.
 
Well, others are more drum oriented than me but I think a big part of the debate is simply that there are an infinite number of ideas about how a drum kit should sound--which give an infinite number of techniques that can be used to achieve the sound.

I know that in live work I've done everything from 2 overheads and a kick mic up to the individual mic on everything routine. I also vary from little processing (and no gates) to gating almost everything. Not being a drummer myself, it depends on what the musicians are after in terms of sound.

I guess this wishwashy post is no help at all, so just to give one example, I would quite commonly gate the kick and the floor toms with a fast attack, slow release sort of set up--and let the rest take care of itself. This keeps the mic channels closed and clean between beats but doesn't hurt the "tails" much.

However, the real answer is "it depends". One thing to say is that, for recording as opposed to live work, I record with no processing and give myself the option to play during the mix. Gates work just as well on recorded tracks as live.

Bob
 
Gates work great. The problem seems to be that a lot of people don't understand how to use them.
 
I've been trying a lot to gate but let most of the kick, snare or toms through and set the hold so it still let's the bleed through but keeps its level very low to avoid the chatter or clicking when it closes on another sound. It seems to work well but I also think it takes some of the punch or snap out. Is think that would be a good starting point and then maybe use a transient designer . Any thoughts on that approach? Also if a transient designer is used would a compressor have any helpful effect?
 
I think you're overthinking it. Tune em right, mic em right, and play em right. Easier said than done, but it really is that simple.
 
Amazingly, I'm with Greg_L. Get the drums tuned nicely, put the right mics in the right places and record them. If, to make the mix sound right you have to do all these amazing things, so be it. But I wouldn't call anything like that a "starting point".
 
I can get a drum set sounding good. I want it to sound fantastic. If i get a band in that wants to track im not going to do all the stuff that they should already have done or know how to do. Gateing and compression and eq and limiters are all the norm on almost all records. I have not once seen anyone that is recording a modern rock album do nothing to the drums but mic, eq, and compress them. Ive listened to greg l's stuff on his site and the drums seem more processed than just compression and eq. Not to sound like im doubting his said approach but most of us that record at home do not have a treated room and the best mics, or a neve 8068 console. So post production is a big part of a home studio setup. Dont get me wrong here, im not new to recording im just wondering what other angles i could use to go at certain situations. Please dont think im coming off rude but tuning and mic placement is a big part of the picture but that is mostly the canvas and all the other stuff is the paint.
 
offcenter2005 said:
Ive listened to greg l's stuff on his site and the drums seem more processed than just compression and eq. .
Click to expand...

Well, they're not. Good or bad, they're just drums with modest, simple processing. I don't do half the extraneous processing that most guys talk about doing.


You're coming off as a little unnecessarily defensive. You can't paint without a good canvas. And if a band comes in and wants to track, it's not up to them to tune and mic their kit. It's up to you, as the engineer/producer, to get that stuff right. Are you just gonna plop some mics on the kit not knowing if it's tuned right and then process the shit out of later on to hopefully make it sound good? That's ass backwards and will not work. You wanna make pro sounding stuff, so do it like the pros. They don't half-ass the basics hoping to fix it later. They nail the basics and the extra stuff later makes it shine even more.

As for what you have and don't have, at least treat your fucking room.
 
Whatever works for you. I mean you are playing punk and that is the punk ethos i guess. Its up to me to mic their drums but if the drums are shit and dont sound fucking good no matter what you do Im not wasting time fixing their gear. And i sure as hell wont turn them away if they got cash. If a drummer dont know how to tune his own drums he shouldn't be behind them. And 100 to 1 most real AE's would tell someone to go fuck themselves before tuning some bands shit for them. Hey dude, could you change my strings Mr. AE cause it'll sound better. Thats bull shit. They would tell them to do it. Help but dont hold hands. When i say treated room im talking about floating walls and floors and all the frequency diffusion, and bass traps. Most people with a 9 to 5 probably wont have the cash for that but as far as some sound control Ive done that. No need to get hurt over a post HeWhoCannotBeNamed. Im just looking for some input on a simple question and it gets old to hear the same tune, mic placement , good drummer stuff. That may be the basic answer but everyone know that there are a lot of shit that goes past that. Thanks for your input bloodshit but im looking for advanced technique.
 
Lol. You got it all figured out then. We should be asking you questions. :laughings: :laughings:
 
How in the world did this cordial, well adjusted party suddenly turn into "Live in Afghanistan" ?
 
offcenter2005 said:
Ive listened to greg l's stuff on his site and the drums seem more processed than just compression and eq..
Click to expand...

offcenter2005 said:
I mean you are playing punk and that is the punk ethos i guess.
Click to expand...

Make up yor mind. Are his drums over-processed, or does he follow the "punk ethos" of just mic 'em and record 'em. It can't be both.

Like Greg said, you're over-thinking this and you seem to have the mistaken impression that there are some "secrets" to getting a great drum recording that nobody's sharing with you.

It really is true that 99% of the success of a drum recording lies in the first, basic steps...tuning, mic placement, A GOOD ROOM, a good player, etc....The pros get all this right before they even go near the record button. If you're looking for band-aids to shitty sounding drums after the fact, then that's a whole different story.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. You got it all figured out then. We should be asking you questions. :laughings: :laughings:
Click to expand...

Thats not the case at all. I appreciate your input but dont get all , Im going to start a text fight with my girlfriend on me. I agree with you on simple is best. Over engineering is never good. I could just record the tracks and layer the kick, snare and toms and eq then compress, saturate or some other form of flavor and it be great but im just looking for other ideas. I wasn't calling you out on your drums if thats what you thought but im hearing a little more than your described approach. Im not a pro and i dont make hardly any money doing this shit but i love it and anything i can add up in my gray matter ill take it and use it.
ptg01000091.jpg
 
offcenter2005 said:
Im just looking for some input on a simple question and it gets old to hear the same tune, mic placement , good drummer stuff. That may be the basic answer but everyone know that there are a lot of shit that goes past that. Thanks for your input bloodshit but im looking for advanced technique.
Click to expand...

Here's the funny thing tho dood. The advanced technique for getting good drum sounds IS tuning, mic placement, good player, and room-room-room. You will never get a basic good sound to work with in an untreated room with out of tune drums using haphazardly placed mics, played by a shitty drummer with bad technique. It is just not possible. This truly is you not taking the correct answer and wishing for some kind of secret. The secret is definitely without question-the advice given by Greg. Period. There is certain processing that can be done to enhance the sound for a particular genre or given song. But that will not ever work without the basics being covered.

Listen to the advice man. It is absolute truth!!!!
 
grimtraveller said:
How in the world did this cordial, well adjusted party suddenly turn into "Live in Afghanistan" ?
Click to expand...

It's the classic story:

Guys asks question, guy doesn't get the answers he wants, guy gets mad, thread goes 50 pages.
 
RAMI said:
Make up yor mind. Are his drums over-processed, or does he follow the "punk ethos" of just mic 'em and record 'em. It can't be both.

I never said over processed. They sound ok but i bet there was more to than what he explained. And the punk ethos is all bull shit anyway.

Like Greg said, you're over-thinking this and you seem to have the mistaken impression that there are some "secrets" to getting a great drum recording that nobody's sharing with you.

Im not asking about "secrets" Im just asking about other peoples processes. I didnt get this going i just said that his drums sounded a little more processed than eq and compression. Not very offensive sounding to me.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top