Don't Buy the Wrong Quantegy Tape on eBay

[FALKEN]

do you all with experience think there is a chance that a lot of the 456 on ebay now is actually cheaper tape in 456 reels?

 

[FALKEN]

also- when using say, GP9 versus standard 456, are any adjustments required to the recorder? Does it have any effect on the record or playback levels?

 

[A Reel Person]

I don't think 456 on Ebay is cheaper tape on 456 reels,...

but I've noticed a real feeding frenzy over tape on Ebay. A 7" reel of 456, sealed, went for about $30, the other day. (Hint: it's a $10 reel of tape, retail).

Using GP9 on a recorder that's set up for 456 would ideally involve a recalibration, but you could fake it, by just hitting the GP9 about +3VU as it's "0" point, and the +3 point for GP9 would be +6Vu on the meter, which is pushing it. If you're set on changing to GP9 permanently, then it's best to get a proper calibration for GP9. If it's just a once-in-a-whille thing, or experimental doodlings on GP9, then just stay as-is. Most old-school analog reel decks were originally set up for 456.

 

[Jonny Storm]

9 r2r's ?

Damn, and I thought I had it bad. Or at least my wife does. Why in the world would you need 9 reels. Thats insane, I LOVE IT! Gotta love all those old Model 350 boards too. And I thought that the 15 or so pieces I have is exteme. Did you ever itemize and see just what you have?
The weights should go tho. Do you record through live amps? I record through Marshall Tube amps and everything rattles as it is. How do you avoid getting rattle in the mix? Especially from the weight machine.
very cool though.
Jonny

 

[FALKEN]

Using GP9 on a recorder that's set up for 456 would ideally involve a recalibration, but you could fake it, by just hitting the GP9 about +3VU as it's "0" point, and the +3 point for GP9 would be +6Vu on the meter, which is pushing it.

ok. so, if I have a 0db 1khz playback tape, and it plays at +3, was this machine calibrated for GP9?

 

[Raw-Tracks]

Using GP9 on a recorder that's set up for 456 would ideally involve a recalibration, but you could fake it, by just hitting the GP9 about +3VU as it's "0" point, and the +3 point for GP9 would be +6Vu on the meter, which is pushing it. If you're set on changing to GP9 permanently, then it's best to get a proper calibration for GP9. If it's just a once-in-a-whille thing, or experimental doodlings on GP9, then just stay as-is. Most old-school analog reel decks were originally set up for 456.

The difference between 456 and GP9 is not just the level it will take. The bias is different too. If you use GP9 on a deck biased for 456, and then make judgements as to whether you like 456 or GP9 better, you are not really getting a chance to hear what GP9 is all about.

 

[A Reel Person]

No,...

cause "0db" was standardized at 185nWb/m, and +3VU on that tape means it's calibrated for 456.

 

[Raw-Tracks]

ok. so, if I have a 0db 1khz playback tape, and it plays at +3, was this machine calibrated for GP9?

What reference level was your tape recorded at? Is it an actual test tape?

 

[A Reel Person]

You talkin' to me?

Yeah, that's just 9 R/R's in the pictures. I have more.

I don't think those are 350 mixers, but more like M-30's. Big difference.

I usually record with a combination of DI + close mic of the body of the guitar, mixed, and hardly ever use amps for recording, 'cept on the rare occasion.

Yeah, the bass amp makes the snare drum rattle,... plus the crayons my kids lodged in the right tom, also rattles, but that's another post.

No questions, I am insane.

 

[cjacek]

Yeah, that's just 9 R/R's in the pictures. I have more.

I don't think those are 350 mixers, but more like M-30's. Big difference.

I usually record with a combination of DI + close mic of the body of the guitar, mixed, and hardly ever use amps for recording, 'cept on the rare occasion.

Yeah, the bass amp makes the snare drum rattle,... plus the crayons my kids lodged in the right tom, also rattles, but that's another post.

No questions, I am insane.

Dave, while on the subject of micing, can you please tell me exactly where you place the mics (57's I assume) on your piano to get your sound ? I was just listenning, again, to some of your songs and you get that very clean and clear piano sound with that "spaciousness". There's none of that "mud" one typically gets micing the piano etc ... Ok, so, how do you get that "sound" ?

Thanks!

Daniel

 

[A Reel Person]

I'll use,...

the standard SM57's, about a foot off the strings,... eh,... sometimes [2] 57's, (spaced about 18" apart),... and just a touch of EQ on the input side for ambience.

Each session might be a little different, but I'd always shoot for a "realistic" sound, with no ups & no extras. Simplicity is best, when you can get it.

I also think a properly used "sweepable" EQ lends itself toward "clarity", when the standard "fixed" type EQ would lend itself toward muddiness, especially if over-used.

On my recordings that feature piano, I'll typically use a Tascam mixer that features "sweepable" EQ, and that works best for me.

 

[A Reel Person]

Dude, don't sell me short!

I wish!!!

That's 10 reel-to-reels visible, and 2 under the desk, not pictured!

 

[FALKEN]

What reference level was your tape recorded at? Is it an actual test tape?

yes, it is an actual test tape, came with the machine. plays at +3. I assume I can adjust it down to zero. But GP9 is the only blank tape I could get ahold of right now; so i'm not really sure of the best method here. going to get some standard tape soon off of ebay I guess. I assume GP9 has less hiss if used correctly?

 

[cjacek]

the standard SM57's, about a foot off the strings,... eh,... sometimes [2] 57's, (spaced about 18" apart),... and just a touch of EQ on the input side for ambience.

Each session might be a little different, but I'd always shoot for a "realistic" sound, with no ups & no extras. Simplicity is best, when you can get it.

I also think a properly used "sweepable" EQ lends itself toward "clarity", when the standard "fixed" type EQ would lend itself toward muddiness, especially if over-used.

On my recordings that feature piano, I'll typically use a Tascam mixer that features "sweepable" EQ, and that works best for me.

Dave, do you mic the strings from the top, with the cover open or some other region of the piano ?

So you feel it is alright to BOOST a bit of high eq to reduce/eliminate "mud" ?

Many thanks Dave!

Daniel

 

[A Reel Person]

...

Yeah, I've mic'd the (upright) piano by just raising the lid a little, and sticking the mics in the gap. Likewise, I have a tilting front panel, that I can sneak mics up in the gap that's just above the keyboard. That's a little more hazardous, as it puts the mics and stands a lot closer to the playing surface. So, that's just two variations on a theme. Nothing too technical.

 

[taperocket]

Gp9??

Hi,
I just got a good deal on a TSR-8 and the seller threw in 2 Reels of AFGA (468 and 469) and one reel of Quantegy GP9 Grand Master Platinum. Is this GP9 good for multitracking? I've never heard of it before, I plan on getting a few reels of 456 cuz its familiar and has always worked well for me.

 

[A Reel Person]

...

468 should be 456 compatible.
469, I dunno.
GP9 is the hottest tape on the market. It holds a hotter signal than 456.

456 is what's spec'd for the TSR8, originally, and I use it on all my 30 Series machines.

 

[Beck]

Hi,
I just got a good deal on a TSR-8 and the seller threw in 2 Reels of AFGA (468 and 469) and one reel of Quantegy GP9 Grand Master Platinum. Is this GP9 good for multitracking? I've never heard of it before, I plan on getting a few reels of 456 cuz its familiar and has always worked well for me.

Congrats on snagging a super nice machine!

468 is good stuff and was preferred by many back when tape was readily available in several brands. First sold as AGFA, then BASF, then EMTEC, it has a reputation of retaining the highs long after recording, even 20 years.

468 is more or less bias compatible with Ampex 456. It's not right on, but people have always used them interchangeably. 469 was actually released as AGFA's bias compatible offering, but most people liked 468 better. Steve Perry and Journey tracked a lot of their material on 468, as did a whole slew of country artists. 469 often suffers from sticky shed syndrome, but 468 does not, regardless of its age.

GP9 is a different animal altogether. It's a +9 (520 nW/m) tape, while 456 is a +6 (370 nW/m) and the bias is not the same. Your machine has to have bias and levels adjusted to use it effectively.

There's a better alternative for the TSR-8 and MSR-16 machines if 456 is in short supply. When those machines came out a lot of people found they liked the sound of 406/407 over that of the factory recommended 456. And here's a little secret -- the TSR is only set at +3 (250 nW/m) because of the dbx. 406/407 are bias compatible but are +3 tapes. The effects and warmth of tape compression are more apparent with 406/407 on the TSR using factory settings.

To use 456 to it's full potential you would switch off dbx and record hot, +3 vu or better. If you record too hot with dbx on it can miss-track (sound funky).

For GP9, even pinning the meters with all you've got isn't enough and some machines aren't even capable of biasing or leveling up to match it.

The TSR-8 is just barely capable, but once you are setup for GP9 you're stuck with using hotter tapes like GP9, 499, and if you can find it, EMTEC 900 and 3M 996 -- all more expensive than standard 456.

At one time I had my TSR-8 setup for GP9. It's an outstanding tape -- dare I say... almost digital in the way it treats music. However, I ended up ramping things back down to 456. I use that and 406 mostly, but also use 3M 226, EMTEC 468 and 911 depending on what I'm recording.

I use 407 or 468 for mastering to my Tascam 22-2.

-Tim

 

[FALKEN]

QUESTION!

is pre-quantegy ampex 456 still good? if it is new in box? how old is it and should I stay away? will it harm my machine?

 

[Raw-Tracks]

QUESTION!

is pre-quantegy ampex 456 still good? if it is new in box? how old is it and should I stay away? will it harm my machine?

Ampex branded 456 can still be good. I guess it depends on exactly how old it is. I think Ampex changed to Quantegy around 1998 or so. You can tell the date of manufacture by reading the code on the box label. The first 2 or 4 digits designate the year of manufacture. The last 3 digits tell you the number of the day within that year. example: 95156 = the 156th day of 1995.