Dave, the truce holds, I'm not going to get into it personal again, but there is a lot of misinformation here, even if it is unintentional. I'll keep a reply civil:
Toker41 said:
That goes back to the fact that there is no real effort put into anti-piracy because it is not a real problem in the bottom line. XP has great anti-piracy technology, showing that it can be done, but simply isn't. Gotta ask "why?".
If XP were actually in demand amongst the hacker community, and wasn't automatically included with every PC manufactured since 2001 up until Vista replaced it, there'd be a public crack out there for everybody within 2 or 3 weeks. And I'm speaking as a software develper who knows what's involved. There's no such thing as uncrackable software.
In fact, you don't even have to wait. Go to China and you'll find cracked copies of XP sold on every streetcorner. There's a demand for it there. The only difference between commercial software that has been cracked and commercial software that has not been cracked is the amount of demand for it in the pirate community.
Toker41 said:
I see a lot of people standing on soapboxes on threads like this
On both sides of the argument. How is your soapbox against our soapbox any better? More to the point, an honest question: why do people who bitch about others not only breaking the law, but about those who openly and maliciously advocate it in public (and no I'm not accusing you of that here), bother you so much?
I mean, there are soapboxers on both sides of the issue. Why is it those that come down on the side of law and ethics raise your ire more than those who advocate theft? I have yet to see you argue with a piracy advocate, yet you have no problem arguing technicalities with a pro-legality advocate. Just because you have a debatable technical disagreement with one of their bullet points having to do with effect upon corporate bottom line?
Toker41 said:
Stealing is wrong. Period. It is "breaking the law".
What is the meaning to the quotes? Is it breaking the law or isn't it?
Toker41 said:
However, very little is done about it, so it must not really be that big a problem.
False logic built upon a false premise. Millions of dollars are spent every year in R&D, licensing costs and court costs in attempts to provide some form of data security and copy protection. Ask anybody who owns full-version Steinberg software legally, buys $.99 iTunes singles, or plays commercial DVDs on their computer, just for three immediate and easy examples from three different branches of digital media.
As I mentioned a while ago, quality data security and copy protection are expensive to implement - the better the protection, the more expensive. And such security measures make the software less attractive to the average end user - agian, the more effective the security, the less attractive because the more hoops the end user must jump through (e.g. dongles, passwords, platform immobility, etc.) Every developer must weigh those real and virtual costs against the benefits of providing such protection - how effective will they be against piracy.
The dichotomy that they face (and that I faced personally as part of the engineering team for just such a company) is that the more popular the software, the more it would, on paper, benefit from anti-piracy measures; however, the more popular the software, the bigger the bullseye the pirates will paint on it and the quicker it will be cracked. And, as anyone who has an illegal copy of Nuendo will tell you, even measures like dongles are irrelevant to the qualified crakcer.
The upshot is that most software manufacturers just do not put a whole effort into anti-piracy measures, not because it doen't matter to them or their bottom line, but because they simply have to throw their hands up and surrender to the fact that they'd just be spending extra development and licensing costs only to still see their product wind up on BitTorrent anyway.
Toker41 said:
Attacking "pirates" on threads like this isn't going to change anything. Certainly isn't stopping anybody from using illegal software. So why do you people come here to bash these people? To point out evil that doesn't effect you, and you can't do anything about? To feel better about yourselves by pointing out others wrongs? Why do you care what others do, when it has nothing to do with you? This is an honest question, and I'd like to hear some of you people's answers.
There's a couple of reasons, Dave, that have nothing to do with narcissism as you suggest.
You're right in that the core legalists will never convince the core pirates, and vice versa. However, there are plenty of people sitting on the fence, or who only steal part-time, as the results of this very poll show. There is still some influence that can be exerted on those folks (from both sides) so that when it comes time to acquire their next piece of software, they might actually think a little about it before making the buy/steal decision.
And the world I live in has everything to do with me. I DO care what others do. They have free will (within the law) and I wouldn't presume to TELL them what to do. But when one see a societal attitude festering that says it's OK to break the law, that stealing for anything less than last resort sustenance can be justified away, and that somehow one's personal rights are created more equal than the rights of their fellow man, I feel they have an obligation to stand up and say, "Now hold on just a second. I'm not going to let that disease spread throughout my world, my community, and therefore my life without my at least putting up an objection, if not a downright fight."
Let me ask you this in return, Dave. If you are walking down the street and see someone commit a crime or actively suppress someone else's rights, are you going to just turn your head and ignore it based upon the premise that, hey, that's their business, not mine? And that if someone else does speak up or otherwise try to stop it, that they are just being self-righteous holy rollers? And furthermore, that while the comission of the crime was not enough to get you to speak up, somehow the person who objects to the commission of the crime is the person you'd rather choose to pick a battle with instead?
Toker41 said:
FOR THE RECORD: ALL ME SOFTWARE IS PAID FOR, AND OBTAINED LEGALLY. So, please spare me the "your promoting stealing" crap. I am not. I am simply not beating up on people who's actions have no bearing on my life, and am simply inquiring what drives others to do so.
And two final questions, Dave. Do you HONESTLY believe that when people read your posts knocking down some arguments against piracy, and that when you call those who do so "righteous holy rollers", that you are not, implicity and by default - even if it's not your intention - assisting the pro-piracy argument? And do you HONESTLY believe that when you essentailly say "piracy is wrong" while putting 100 times those words into arguments striking down the reasons given why piracy is wrong, and into striking down those who give those reasons, that the net effect of your posts *in reality* does not come out sounding extremely pro-piracy, regardless of your intent?
G.