sloom
New member
I know. I just wanted to quote Bob Dylan.
- Status
B
bitsandvolts
New member
MY problem with the whole software piracy problem is how the legitimate customer gets boned. We've been led to believe that the current cost of software by manufacturers like Logic, Cubase, Cakewalk, etc is a direct result of piracy and if piracy were curbed software prices would come down.
This is very similar to the claim by auto insurance companies that try to justify higher premiums in higher risk areas. I'm a safe driver (not a ticket or accident in over the past 10 years or so) but my insurance premiums are god-aweful, just because I live on Long Island...and only because I live on Long Island.
The person that really gets hurt in all of this, is the one that follows the rules. The guy that actually pays for the software is getting boned, so that the software companies can protect themselves from pirates.
Now, I'm not a proponent of software policy...at all..so please do not interpret what I'm saying as such...I've been down both roads. I've tried hacked software, but I've also bought it. The comments stated here have fallen in line with my experiences. The stuff I've bought has been solid and reliable and the stuff I've tried has been problematic, to say the least...Regardless, in my previous life, I was a software developer, so me using a hacked copy of something was never done so with any intent other than to evaluate before buying....
Regardless, the way that software companies go about their business only attracts more piracy. If someone could devise a system where the pirate was the only one penalized for such a thing, it would work....but right now, the pirates seem to be the last ones getting hurt...and the legitimate owners, as a whole, pay the greater price.
This is very similar to the claim by auto insurance companies that try to justify higher premiums in higher risk areas. I'm a safe driver (not a ticket or accident in over the past 10 years or so) but my insurance premiums are god-aweful, just because I live on Long Island...and only because I live on Long Island.
The person that really gets hurt in all of this, is the one that follows the rules. The guy that actually pays for the software is getting boned, so that the software companies can protect themselves from pirates.
Now, I'm not a proponent of software policy...at all..so please do not interpret what I'm saying as such...I've been down both roads. I've tried hacked software, but I've also bought it. The comments stated here have fallen in line with my experiences. The stuff I've bought has been solid and reliable and the stuff I've tried has been problematic, to say the least...Regardless, in my previous life, I was a software developer, so me using a hacked copy of something was never done so with any intent other than to evaluate before buying....
Regardless, the way that software companies go about their business only attracts more piracy. If someone could devise a system where the pirate was the only one penalized for such a thing, it would work....but right now, the pirates seem to be the last ones getting hurt...and the legitimate owners, as a whole, pay the greater price.
sloom
New member
I'm going to get basted here, but this charging "what the market will bear" thing is a product of wrong thinking. There si no legit reason why folks should be pressed to their limit and be penalized for trying to do something personally important to them. Software costing $400-$600.00, upwards of $1,000.00, is not sitting right with me as necessary.
Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, whatever. Maybe I don't- but I don't believe it. But I live in the world and can't change it right now, so I'm going to deal the best way I know how: I'm going to be resourceful, and get good at using n-Track. And Cool Edit... there are too many dang choices out there, anyway. That's a problem with our commercial/pop culture.
Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, whatever. Maybe I don't- but I don't believe it. But I live in the world and can't change it right now, so I'm going to deal the best way I know how: I'm going to be resourceful, and get good at using n-Track. And Cool Edit... there are too many dang choices out there, anyway. That's a problem with our commercial/pop culture.
T
Toker41
Better Than You
Check out "Hopes Fading" on this link:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2878&alid=-1
It was done on N-track. Little rough because it was the first one I recorded in my "home studio", so there was a bit of a learning curve, but it sounds just as good as anything I've heard from Sonar, or Cubase. Hell, it sounds better than the other 2 tracks on that link that were recorded in a multi-million dollar studio. For a $40 program, it shows that there is no reason recording software needs to be expensive. It's funny how all these people that scream about ripping off a software company will so willing allow themselves to be ripped off. Every time some one buys a $500 recording software program, they are promoting theft to the consumers. Don't download if you think it's wrong, but don't buy it either...because it's wrong.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2878&alid=-1
It was done on N-track. Little rough because it was the first one I recorded in my "home studio", so there was a bit of a learning curve, but it sounds just as good as anything I've heard from Sonar, or Cubase. Hell, it sounds better than the other 2 tracks on that link that were recorded in a multi-million dollar studio. For a $40 program, it shows that there is no reason recording software needs to be expensive. It's funny how all these people that scream about ripping off a software company will so willing allow themselves to be ripped off. Every time some one buys a $500 recording software program, they are promoting theft to the consumers. Don't download if you think it's wrong, but don't buy it either...because it's wrong.
sloom
New member
Hey, that was great! I'm no Poison fan, and take this as a compliment- but Poison wish they wrote it.
Big sound, nice ballad. A real wrencher. And there you go, n-Track. Fine.
Big sound, nice ballad. A real wrencher. And there you go, n-Track. Fine.
DaveO
New member
Gotta agree with Toker41 about n-Track
Toker41, we've disagreed quite a lot on this topic but I have to agree with you that n-Track is an outstanding value. Your work on Hopes Fading was really good - nice job. If you have the Homerecording.comP Volume II CD, our song at the end of the red disc was recorded and mixed in n-Track. I used it for years and loved it. The main reason I left if for SONAR was compatability with my friend I record with since he bought it. I recommend n-Track without reservation.
And one other thing, if anyone out there has made up his mind to pirate software, please do NOT pirate n-Track. It's an inexpensive package and for what's basically a one-man operation Flavio gives great service. The low cost is a small price to pay for what you get compared to other packages.
Toker41, we've disagreed quite a lot on this topic but I have to agree with you that n-Track is an outstanding value. Your work on Hopes Fading was really good - nice job. If you have the Homerecording.comP Volume II CD, our song at the end of the red disc was recorded and mixed in n-Track. I used it for years and loved it. The main reason I left if for SONAR was compatability with my friend I record with since he bought it. I recommend n-Track without reservation.
And one other thing, if anyone out there has made up his mind to pirate software, please do NOT pirate n-Track. It's an inexpensive package and for what's basically a one-man operation Flavio gives great service. The low cost is a small price to pay for what you get compared to other packages.
V
vschiano2008
New member
Fantastic_Mad said:
if you plan on making money with the software, you have to buy it. if your just messin around, makin a couple tracks for some chick on your wednsday night class, pirate the crap. BUT. pirated copies are a major pain in the ass to get working. if your on windows, you could get viruses and stuff too.
sloom
New member
vschiano2008 said:
Or just scrounge around and get a friend to load a CD copy of his on your PC. Or pay $50 for 16-bit n-Track... or download Kristal AE (free)... or the e-version of Magix Audio Studio (free)... or Anvil (free)... or find a crack...
...These days the free stuff is a-poppin'.
H
Hemlige Arne
New member
For me, it's not that I don't want to support the creator. They're hard working people and hey, my brother's a programmer so I can relate. Thing is, I don't have that kind of money to begin with, so for me it's either get an illegal copy or don't record music. Those are the options. And I like recording music... quite a lot. Besides I'm using a really obsolete copy of samplitude that's probably 5 years old anyway, and no one would pay for it today anyway. I'm not hurting anyone since I couldn't afford to buy it anyway.
sloom
New member
Hemlige Arne said:
There is still the argument that cheap/free programs that are worthy do exist, and this chips away at your argument that you can't afford it. Your options, in truth, aren't that limited. But it's reasonable that you've now spoiled yourself on Samplitude, and don't want to grade downward from it! That would be a discouragement, I guess- it's once again a matter of your own conscience- if it's good, you're good (However, if you can afford things like beer, a recording mag, and have bought a couple mics, cables, etc., then you can likely afford n-Track, which is actually a good program. And the user forum is top-notch. There are also very good $100.00 apps. Save up ?).
But now I have to say that this is common, and it's common because the software is too expensive. Argue it all you want- it's a market driven by things other than intrtinsic worth.
As far as the version of Samplitude you're using being obsolete: It's not obsolete! Try and be less led about by the corporate agenda of keeping you in need of the latest thing! Upgrades are generally seen as being more necessary than they really are. If your system is stable and you can do effectively what you want to do, then it's a good system.
V
vschiano2008
New member
show your face asshole
some asshole from this thread decided to give me a negative rep point. show your face fagget.. "fuck you, pirate this"... thats what you say to my opinion..
How bout i fuckin kill you.
get a life prick.
some asshole from this thread decided to give me a negative rep point. show your face fagget.. "fuck you, pirate this"... thats what you say to my opinion..
How bout i fuckin kill you.
get a life prick.
V
vschiano2008
New member
im sorry for disrupting the forum with that. its not right, but i dont appreciate assholes on a forum. i like this forum a lot and i dont want to leave it because of a couple of dicks. but i would like to hurt whoever left me a bad rep point...
noisedude
New member
Chill out man ... it's still just an internet forum. Jeeez!vschiano2008 said:
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
With that attitude, not to mention advocating piracy, expect a few more in the future.....vschiano2008 said:
What is it with people who automatically think they need to resort to violence to solve anything?????? Sheesh.
DaveO
New member
Now THAT'S the kind of response that helps earn you 228 (noisedude) and 34 (fraserhutch) rep points! 
vschiano2008, I'm not the one who gave you the negative rep (other than a few cases where I forgot I have always given my name AND a reason why i left negative rep) but with the posts you made on this page negative rep should be expected. Saying there's no issue with using cracked software if you don't make money from the music you make with it is simply false.
What about the guitars, mics, amps, cables, etc. etc. etc. you use to record? What about the PC you run this software on? Did you steal them too? Using your logic it seems like it would be perfectly acceptable to steal all that. That must mean you're also perfectly happy to let me break into your house and steal all your gear as long as I enjoy it in the privacy of my own home and don't make any money from my music.
You can't possibly mean something so rediculous, so can you please elaborate on the distinction between the software you use and the rest of your gear? I can't see one.
vschiano2008, I'm not the one who gave you the negative rep (other than a few cases where I forgot I have always given my name AND a reason why i left negative rep) but with the posts you made on this page negative rep should be expected. Saying there's no issue with using cracked software if you don't make money from the music you make with it is simply false.
What about the guitars, mics, amps, cables, etc. etc. etc. you use to record? What about the PC you run this software on? Did you steal them too? Using your logic it seems like it would be perfectly acceptable to steal all that. That must mean you're also perfectly happy to let me break into your house and steal all your gear as long as I enjoy it in the privacy of my own home and don't make any money from my music.
You can't possibly mean something so rediculous, so can you please elaborate on the distinction between the software you use and the rest of your gear? I can't see one.
Zetajazz44
New member
I'll throw in a little different spin on this subject.... Someone may have already said this and I've forgotten it through the 19 or so pages but...
I'm not saying piracy is right... I'm a software developer myself... I make a living from people buying software... but I'm not sure that cracked software has hurt the audio software developers like Steinberg...etc. In order to say that it hurts that particular industry you would have to assume that everyone who has downloaded a cracked copy would have otherwise have bought it... That's not true... A lot of people download it just 'because it's there...'
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if tomorrow Cubase became completely uncrackable/unhackable and the only way to have a copy was to buy it, I seriously doubt Steinberg would see a huge increase in sales... AND I also seriously doubt that you'd a better quality product at a cheaper price as some have indicated...
Just my .02 worth...
I'm not saying piracy is right... I'm a software developer myself... I make a living from people buying software... but I'm not sure that cracked software has hurt the audio software developers like Steinberg...etc. In order to say that it hurts that particular industry you would have to assume that everyone who has downloaded a cracked copy would have otherwise have bought it... That's not true... A lot of people download it just 'because it's there...'
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if tomorrow Cubase became completely uncrackable/unhackable and the only way to have a copy was to buy it, I seriously doubt Steinberg would see a huge increase in sales... AND I also seriously doubt that you'd a better quality product at a cheaper price as some have indicated...
Just my .02 worth...
T
Toker41
Better Than You
DaveO said:Now THAT'S the kind of response that helps earn you 228 (noisedude) and 34 (fraserhutch) rep points!
vschiano2008, I'm not the one who gave you the negative rep (other than a few cases where I forgot I have always given my name AND a reason why i left negative rep) but with the posts you made on this page negative rep should be expected. Saying there's no issue with using cracked software if you don't make money from the music you make with it is simply false.
What about the guitars, mics, amps, cables, etc. etc. etc. you use to record? What about the PC you run this software on? Did you steal them too? Using your logic it seems like it would be perfectly acceptable to steal all that. That must mean you're also perfectly happy to let me break into your house and steal all your gear as long as I enjoy it in the privacy of my own home and don't make any money from my music.
You can't possibly mean something so rediculous, so can you please elaborate on the distinction between the software you use and the rest of your gear? I can't see one.
I don't believe they guy should expect to receive neg points for expressing an opinion. Isn't that the point of the whole thread? Kind of a judgmental statement, and way of looking at it. If people bash with neg rep because they disagree with your opinion, then why would anyone want to take part in any discussion at all? It's not the "only post here if you are holy like us and do not pirate" thread. Although I believe his "I will kill you" post merits neg rep points, because one shouldn't go posting things like that, I do not believe he posted anything before that warranting negative rep points. Being the victim of this myself on this very thread, I can say that who ever did that to him was simply being a cowardly, passive aggressive, self-righteous ass. Some rules need to be put in place to govern and police the use of negative feedback.
Last edited:
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
I have always found the "if they couldn't afford it, they wouldn't buy it anyways" argument specious.Zetajazz44 said:
If it were not possible to pirate software, not only would it benefit the sales of comapnies like Steinberg, it would benefit the smaller companies such as Flavio's N-track as well. Potential pirates would be forced to find a solution - either come up with funds or opt for a less expensive alternative or do without.
What has become increasingly apparent to me is that a lot of people find it remarkably easy to compromise their morals on behalf of expediency; put obstacles in their path and they will work at finding a solution.
Zetajazz44
New member
fraserhutch said:
Ah, I'm not argueing... I just put a different spin on it...
I see men standing around the magazine section in grocery stores reading the magazine while their wives shop... To me, that's the same as software piracy... Agree?
sloom
New member
Zetajazz44 said:
No, piracy would be obtaining the magazine, copying it, and selling it or giving it away wholesale. Reading it and putting it back is auditioning. Is test-driving a car piracy?
Yes, fraserhutch, necessity is the Mother of invention; press someone and they will get resourceful, and earn/find the bread to buy it. Except that making something 'crack-proof' is probably impossible anyway- so that's moot. You can't stop folks from breaking into your car if they really want to, and I'm not convinced that this 'crack' business is on that same level. Unless they're downloading your own software from your own computer.
And I agree with this:
"I guess what I'm trying to say is that if tomorrow Cubase became completely uncrackable/unhackable and the only way to have a copy was to buy it, I seriously doubt Steinberg would see a huge increase in sales... AND I also seriously doubt that you'd a better quality product at a cheaper price as some have indicated..." -zetajazz44
As for the big bold tirade, vischiano2008, that's infantile crap. Hold it together and play the man, eh!
- Status