Do I need a preamp / better mic ?

[sach160]

Hi guys.

A friend told me that my voice sounds much, much better live than from my 8-tracker recordings, (i have v good monitors). I use a c1000s straight into my roland 840ex, with some reverb from the roland too (vocal room). Looking around some forums I see that this is not the way to get an accurate idea of how I am sounding. At the moment vocals recorded with my C1000s direct in seem lacking warmth, kinda pretty harsh sounding...

When i'm writing, I always record and playback to see how it sounds, and if i think its good enough or not. If I'm gettin a poor quality recordin, it means i'm bein harder on myself than if I had great recording equipment, but maybe then I'd be too easy on myself cause the places i play wont have that kind of quality. Damn, now I really dont know what to do.

So bearin all this in mind do I need a better mic / preamp? yes/no answers are fine, i know ya regulars must get a lot of clowns askin the same questions!

 

[Big Kenny]

You are using one of the worst vocal mics in the industry. It has uses (not by me) but if you are getting good sounds now, You should definitely get a better mic. As far as a new pew, it depends on what your goal is. Are you gonna make a cd to sell at your gigs? Are you gonna try to sell your songs? Is it just for you so you remember what you wrote?

 

[tdukex]

You need to upgrade both IMO. Although I've never heard the Roland preamps, I doubt they're even as good as Mackie. I've heard the C1000 on DOH, Vox and Acou guit and hated it on all--through a Mackie.

 

[sach160]

Big Kenny, |am mainly using my gear to give me feedback to what I'm writing - so how it sounds is very important to me. I want an accurate representation of how I'm sounding. I also use it to remember songs, but in recordin while reheasrsin, I'd like to keep good takes to put on a cd and sell at gigs, or to use as demos too.

So, to confirm, you guys dont think I'm getting this with my stuff and I should get somethning better? I'd like to spend £700 but I could spend £1000 if it makes a real difference. I know i'll have to try a few things out and it depends on where i record/my voice etc, but to get an idea, can anyone recommend mic/preamp combos worth trying out? 2 things that work together particularly well. Infact I best ask this in a new thread

Until now I figured that my gear was fine.... but all i've heard my voice recorded on before my gear is a dictaphone!

 

[Richard Monroe]

I have to agree with Big Kenny. The Roland's pres can be beat all to hell by a good cheap preamp, such as M-Audio DMP-3, and the C1000S is no form of vocal mic, in spite of AKG's advertising claims. The C2000B is not bad, though, for about the same price. Bang for buck award these days goes to CAD M179. Either of those mics would be a noticible upgrade from a C1000S.-Richie

 

[Big Kenny]

You would notice a huge improvement ( at minimal expense) by following Richie's advice. You could spend a lot more, and you will, but for now I think this will get you going in the right direction

 

[DJL]

Hi guys.

A friend told me that my voice sounds much, much better live than from my 8-tracker recordings, (i have v good monitors). I use a c1000s straight into my roland 840ex, with some reverb from the roland too (vocal room). Looking around some forums I see that this is not the way to get an accurate idea of how I am sounding. At the moment vocals recorded with my C1000s direct in seem lacking warmth, kinda pretty harsh sounding...

When i'm writing, I always record and playback to see how it sounds, and if i think its good enough or not. If I'm gettin a poor quality recordin, it means i'm bein harder on myself than if I had great recording equipment, but maybe then I'd be too easy on myself cause the places i play wont have that kind of quality. Damn, now I really dont know what to do.

So bearin all this in mind do I need a better mic / preamp? yes/no answers are fine, i know ya regulars must get a lot of clowns askin the same questions!

I'd go with a better mic first... unless you can find a way to by-pass the VS840ex preamp.

 

[sach160]

Thanks 4 the advice Richard. I see why you think I should stick to somethin lower end since I dont know much about this kind of stuff and when I eventually do, I'll probably want somethin different. But that said, I dont want to change in the next few years again, and I guess I just want the best sound I can afford at the mo. So maybe I should get some better gear than ya suggest, but 2nd hand, somethin that will retain value so I can change later on without much loss. I think a used seinheisser 441 and a used green focusrite (if i can find one!) might be a good idea... What dya reckon?

and djl, i cant bypass the roland preamp but can set it so its fairly neutral, ya still think i should go for a better mic first?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Sach! If you want a dynamic, the Sennhiser is a great mic, but I would choose Shure SM7B for vocals. That's just my preference. If you really want to spend the kind of money involved in an MD441, I believe Shure KSM44 would be a very versatile choice. As far as the Focusrite pre goes, I've never used it, so I can't be much help there.-Richie

 

[Big Kenny]

I use the Focusrite VMP on occasion and it works well with my 441 and my condensers. The only downside is the chinese pots. The rest of the stuff works quite well (at that price point). The expander and de esser are wonderful and the eq and compressor are good.

 

[ChristopherDawn]

I didn't read what everybody said, but I skimmed a bit. I've heard time and time again that c1000s are harsh on the high end. Looks like new mic time.

 

[chessparov]

If possible sach, also include the Electro-Voice RE series (RE20, PL20, RE15, RE16), EV 635a, and Shure Unidyne series (SM7, SM57, 545) in your short list.
They can sound simply outstanding on many voices.

The RE20 tends to cover more voice types out of the above IMHO without a whole lot of tweaking. (PL20 is the same mic-different color)

Although I haven't that much experience with "tube mics", the Studio Projects T3 is very impressive to me FWIW.
(and it is to Sting's producer too BTW!)
Plus their service is second to none which is extra important when you're learning. Haven't tried the new CAD, AT's, and ADK's yet.

Expect to select at least two vocal mics, if not three for variety.

Chris

 

[Raaen]

I'd go with a better mic first... unless you can find a way to by-pass the VS840ex preamp.

You should be able to bypass the VS pres. I look at it a little differently. You can't really evaluate, adequately, a mic unless you have preamp that has some balls and quality behind it. In my experience I didn't really start hearing what a specific mic started sounding like until I had a quality pre. I'd try to split your funds. There are numerous options. RNP is a nice pre for the money. Mackie pres are a good buy too on a budget. Mics....That can be a harder choice. I haven't found a vocal mic that I like under $500US. But there are many to choose from. Again, if you have a good preamp, you can make a more intelligent choice of mic, and really hear what the C1000 sounds like . All in all, you get what you pay for. Good Luck.

Raaen

 

[DJL]

You should be able to bypass the VS pres.

Humm............ how?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Raaen, DJL's got you there. The 840ex has S/PDIF outs, but no S/PDIF in, which is the only way to bypass the preamps on a VS studio. By turning the channel input gain to minimum (line), you can greatly reduce the effect of the Roland's (cruddy) pres, but you can't make them go away.
For remote recording, I use a Digi002 running stereo by S/PDIF into a VS1824CD, which really does bypass the pres and the AD convertor. In effect, I'm using the Roland as an external hard drive with an attached mixer with bridge meters. And the whole setup rocks. Neuman KM184's > Avalon AD2022 > Digi002 > VS1824CD. It's only 2 channels, but my God- what 2 channels.-Richie

 

[sach160]

Yeah unfortunately ya cant bypass the roland preamp, but I was told by the guy who knows the 840ex better than literally anyone on the planet, that setting the input sensitivities at 9.00 gives a fairly neutral output from the roland's pres.

hey chessparov, i'm only gettin 1 mic, because its only for my voice in 1 place. And now I dont know whether to get a condenser or dynamic. Sigh.

 

[Raaen]

Humm............ how?

Ok, maybe I was just spouting off alittle. Not knowing the VS, if I were in your shoes, I'd get a preamp that had 1/4" i/o in addition to XLR (Great River, which has been brought up here is one- but there are many). If you can't use the XLR, you can use the 1/4" output to plug into your device (it does have 1/4" inputs doesn't it?). I do this with my Great River going into a RNC. Was a bit reluctant thinking that there'd be some loss of quality, but the results have been excellent. Just one solution.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Raaen, the output format of the preamp is irrelevent. He could go from an XLR to a balanced 1/4" or from 1/4" to 1/4". Either way, he's then going to plug that 1/4" right into the VS studio's substandard preamp. There is *no* other way into the VS studio than through its preamps. It doesn't matter what you plug into it. Everything goes through the preamps. Got it?-Richie

 

[DJL]

Raaen... Richie is correct and that is why I said I'd go with a better mic first... unless you can find a way to by-pass the VS840ex preamp... otherwise, I may have recommend a better preamp first... depending on what they were already using and etc of course.