DIY Treatment Question

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Sky Blue Lou

Sky Blue Lou

Well-known member
I've been reading up extensively on room treatment thinking about treating the spaces I have, such as they are and I've come across some info that has raised questions I haven't seen answered.

Assuming the chosen material is rigid fiberglass of whatever depth would having a wood box frame and/or back make an appreciable difference? I have seen one person here who just wraps the panels in cloth w/o sides or backing. Is there any "edge leak" phenomenon to be concerned with? I know that panels should have space between them and the walls so I assume a hard surface backing would be counter-productive but how about in a gobo? Are these potential issues material depth-dependent?

Thanks for helping me fill in the blanks.


lou
 
Aww, gee, Lou, didja have to go and ask a stupid question? :D:D:D
 
Well it must be wicked stupid or a stumper 'cause it's got 25 views and no stabs at an answer.

:confused:
lou
 
I've been wondering the same thing myself, Sir.

From the looks of things, the better of any instructional photos, videos, advice I've found has the fellow making a wooden frame the exact dimensions of the 24 inch x 48 inch 703 panels, and placing the 703 over it, then wrapping. So rather than the 703 actually being framed in by the wood, it's sitting on top of the frame.

I'm afraid that I can't answer whether it's better than framing it in or placing a board on the back side. Though I'll be keeping an close eye to see if anyone else chimes in. I too was curious, mainly because the panels I require will be mounted to a wall anyway, would it make much of a difference they hung flush against the drywall or if there was an internal backing? I'd have to say probably not, but I try not to assume too much around here.

My other question is. Minus the wire mesh, is this plausible? http://webpages.charter.net/jdgeisen/BassTraps/BassTrap1.htm
 
Creamyapples1 said:
I've been wondering the same thing myself, Sir.
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Sir? WTF? Do I look that old?

I'm hoping one of the resident experts will chime in. I've seen open-back and closed-back absorbers both DIY and commercial and also using rigid glass or rockwool. I don't know if any difference is even perceptible to the ear so the question may be more esoteric than practical but I'm still curious.

Creamyapples1 said:
My other question is. Minus the wire mesh, is this plausible? http://webpages.charter.net/jdgeisen/BassTraps/BassTrap1.htm
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I don't see why not. I think you would need the mesh if you were going to compress batting like that.


lou
 
Creamyapples1 said:
I get that quite a bit, but I call everyone Sir or Miss or whatever. I'm not sure why. Regardless, I figured we'd have someone pipe up by now lol.:eek:
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Because you are a refined gentleman. (Or lady I suppose not knowing your gender.)

Yeah I was hoping for some more action as well. It's a holiday. Maybe tomorrow.

Enjoy the day.


lou
 
I just treat one of my rooms by having 6000 records on the walls. The other room I've treated by having stacks and stacks of shit piled in there.
Amps ..... guitars ...... 'puters ...... recording gear and pedals.

Both rooms are quite musical sounding.
:D

That doesn't answer your question but does provide us with a bit of interaction.
 
Seidy said:
without a doubt panel without wooden back works better.
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Well thanks for the input but I gotta ask...You know this how? Personal experience, reading, demonstration? Can you point me at some relevant info on it?

I'm wondering if a hard back and thicker, say 4 or 6 inch panel, would do a better job as an isolation gobo. An open back panel mounted an inch off the wall lets some energy through I assume whereupon it would continue to reflect around the room.

Since these questions have come up a new space has become available to me. The issue in this space is windows and I was thinking of "shutters" either top or side-hinged to close in the window cases. The primary purpose would be to tame the room but I imagine they couldn't do anything but reduce the amount of sound transmitted to the outside. My neighbors are far enough away and fairly tolerant but I like to maintain a low profile and the window recesses seem like the perfect place to trap out sound waves. Hinging would allow natural light when I am just listening to music or maybe mixing and I would close them when firing up loud amps.

I'll probably start another thread with particulars as I get closer to taking over this room. In the meantime I'm just trying to absorb knowledge.

Thanks.


lou
 
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Lt. Bob said:
That doesn't answer your question but does provide us with a bit of interaction.
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Interaction is good, ElTee.

I'm about to take over my daughter's former bedroom. It's about 10X20 (twice the size of my current space) and my treatment needs have just changed a bit. Before I was primarily interested in treating a mix space and listening environment and I would just stick a gobo or two in front of an amp in another room for recording. I will probably still want a gobo or two but now I will be able to have all my amps set up in the same room with me so there will be a somewhat heavier demand for attenuation of wild waves and whatnot at higher SPLs. I want to do it right. (Gotta get a bunch of egg cartons and I don't eat eggs. ;))

Thanks.


lou
 
shoot ..... you might want to build an isolation closet. Then you could stick amps in there or even singers when you might want to keep something in the larger room from bleeding into their mic.




That is ...... if you don't want to go the 6000 record route.

:)
 
Lt. Bob said:
shoot ..... you might want to build an isolation closet. Then you could stick amps in there or even singers when you might want to keep something in the larger room from bleeding into their mic.




That is ...... if you don't want to go the 6000 record route.

:)
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I've only got 400 records! There is a recessed "bookshelf" at the end of one of the long walls that will be perfect for those and the stereo gear though. There is also a nice wide closet centered on one of the short walls that will make a perfect massive bass trap. I still want to use the space for guitar cases and gear boxes and such but I'm thinking a big movable panel in the opening and even Geddy Lee couldn't get out.

I'm liking the possibilities. This will be my winter project. The wife and I split up about a year ago and my daughter stays with her. She has free run of this place when she wants or needs it but she's not using this room hardly at all so I'm gonna just move her bed to the old music room and move my gear up here. I've picked up a bunch of amps and guitars over the last couple years so I need more space anyway and Katie (my girl) is all on board with the idea so why not get after it while I'm still ambulatory?

;)
lou
 
this is strictly an opinion (and I may get jumped on), but I think the wooden frame is more of an aesthetics thing- just like some people think paintings need to be framed and others not so much.

true it adds some rigidity and if you're making gobos, then a piece of RFG wrapped in cloth probably won't hold up too well, but attached to a wall?, suspended from a ceiling with space behind, some type of frame is helpful as the panels will sag

I've got 1", 2" and 4" panels with and without spaces behind, some framed, some with slats, as well as a few panels with the different levels of of wood squares 9in my case more rectangles)-

for bass traps, I asked in several forums if the 24" wide x 4" piece of RFG at a 45 degree angle in the corner was optimum... and the only response I got was the panels come in 24" x 48"... and it was really the 4" thickness that was important. as the 24" width took up a lot of corner space... and if the 4" depth was really the key (and I noticed that the commercial foam corner traps took up far less of the corner, I opted to cut triangles out of the RFG and stack in the corners, some as small as 6" x 6" on the walls, (giving me 4" going directly into the corner) , 8" x 8", 12" x 12", and even 6" x 12, and 12" x 24" (directly above where I mix, followed by "clouds"- and a 1" thick panel was cut/angled to fit tot he wall covering the triangles.... (an electric carving knife worked great!)-

It has made a huge difference in the rooms, and my trial and error approach to placement was using the RMC that came with my JBLs and seeing what placements made more of a difference in the before/after graph the RMC produced.

As good as a professional acoustic engineer would have done? probably not, but people stopped saying the drum kit sounded cardboard and the vocals sounded like I was in a box (which I took as a positive) and I'm happy with the effort

I think some/any treatment is better than bare sheet-rocked walls...
 
stainlessbrown said:
I think some/any treatment is better than bare sheet-rocked walls...
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That depends on what one is using for "treatment". People that use foam as opposed to rigid fibregalss un-wittingly make bass issues go from being 90% of the problem to 100% of the problem, since foam does nothing for low end and only kills your highs/mids.
 
Thanx for the input, Sir. :D

Further reading is answering some of my questions and I'm beginning to think that the framing issue is of little acoustic consequence. Ultimately I think I will start with a cloud and superchunk corners and add wall panels in the obvious spots and see what I get.

Thanks again.


lou
 
I think you will hear improvement in an untreated room with 24" x 48" x 4" pieces stacked in the corners.

Check out John Sayers site for tips about placement of other absorbers and clouds, and pay close attention to the layout of the speakers and listening position as well. Just moving your speakers away from the walls to the sides and behind them can dramatically alter the sound in the room.
 
RAMI said:
That depends on what one is using for "treatment". People that use foam as opposed to rigid fibregalss un-wittingly make bass issues go from being 90% of the problem to 100% of the problem, since foam does nothing for low end and only kills your highs/mids.
Click to expand...

and as long as it's not egg cartons :D
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
...I'm beginning to think that the framing issue is of little acoustic consequence. Ultimately I think I will start with a cloud and superchunk corners and add wall panels in the obvious spots and see what I get.
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Lou,

Yes, it all depends on what you want/need.

First of all, you should consider how many 'Sabines' of absorption you need to bring the decay of the room down to optimum.

A fully absorptive panel including sides, spaced from the wall offers many more sabines than a wood framed panel placed directly on the wall.

The wood frames are often used for aesthetics and some are perforated and covered with fabric - used as a rigid structure. Some have small frames in the back for hanging and incorporate an air space.

It basically depends on your design which panel you will use. It is your choice and it is not that critical until you get to absorption under 125Hz.

Cheers,
John
 
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