Digital vs. Analog: Tell Us Something We Haven't Heard

[cjacek]

I have debated strongly with you, as have many others. I dont apologize. Do you think I should?

No.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to take Analog Only as ....... "This is anti digital territory! Be warned!"

Doesn't Analog Only = Anti-Digital ?

It only "inextricably involves anti-digital talk" if the forum is only for people who are anti-digital and that seems highly unlikely. For example, would you ban Dave from the forum because even though he uses analog a lot, he doesnt hate digital like a few others? Of course you wouldnt and neither should you.

I said it "also" inextricably involves anti-digital talk, which is completely different to saying that it "only" does so. You cannot seperate the Analog Only forum from being against digital, to at least some degree. When I speak about disliking digital, it is meant in the confines of sound recording and reproduction and it doesn't mean I don't use CD's, DVD's, burn them and the like. I have expressed previously that I find digital to be utilitarian and a convenience item. It excells at that. I don't hate it, I take it for what it is. I do, however, hate the concept of digital.

 

[cjacek]

...plus, there is no software upgrades to analog nor will it be superceded by something else. It is what it is and stays like that for decades, provided it is properly cared for. A friend bought an old 4 track open reel Teac, from early 70's. Everything good including the caps and it sounds more convincing than any digital rig made today. The same machine from '72, not needing anything else but some oil, relubrication, alignment and a nice cleaning. Plus, you can't loose information on it as easily as on a digital rig, when, for instance, you don't press stop before the disk runs our of space or for any other reason when file information is not correctly written after recording, not to mention any accidental, one button deletions. This doesn't include endless software problems and disc failures.

 

[Tim Gillett]

Doesn't Analog Only = Anti-Digital ?

Daniel, that was the question I was trying open up a discussion on!

The forum COULD just discuss problems relating to analog formats and never even mention the word digital. That could be one interpretation.

It could also mean "anti digital" as you say.

I'm just repeating my last post.
You ask me, rhetorically, "Doesnt Analog Only = Anti-Digital". I say as I said in my last post, THAT IS THE QUESTION. Why else would I draw attention to the words themselves and note their ambiguity unless I was wanting to initiate a discussion on it? Do you want a discussion or not?

In the end I suspect it's not what we think but what the people running the website think. It's their website, not ours.

Once again, why dont we check with them?

regards, Tim.

 

[ofajen]

I began jotting down a few ideas, and it’s now slowing turning into a thesis. The general premise is that people are being more or less forced to create music that is limited and molded by subtle, but very real aural pain. (Imagine a bad Star Trek episode… first season) Thus the emphasis on thumping bass in rap and hip-hop, the rise of the sub-woofer, etc. is because digital reproduces a harsh high end.

Basically, artists and producers are unconsciously avoiding the offending frequencies and consumers are masking them with accentuated bass.

I always thought it was because only bass frequencies could be heard 1000 yards away when played by speakers mounted inside a moving vehicle that is not within line of sight. Isn't that the whole point to car audio? To make sure you are heard by and that you annoy everyone within earshot and then some? Hmmm... I may have to rethink this issue completely!

Cheers,

Otto

 

[cjacek]

If you spend any amount of years on this board you get the basic sense that the Analog Only forum is the place to give home to the select few who either still work with analog or those who want an alternative to digital. Either way, they're anti-digital, in some way or another. How you interpret it, is up to you.

 

[ofajen]

Doesn't Analog Only = Anti-Digital ?

...I do, however, hate the concept of digital.

Oh, no, here it comes:

The War on Digital! What's the threat color for today? Oxide brown?

Cheers,

Otto

 

[evm1024]

SNIP!

Nyquist theory says that says that you can capture up to half of your sample rate- thus CD's are 44.1 K to hit just enough above 20K that anything above human hearing can be rolled off without distorting the audible range. This assumes a perfect clock.

SNIP
Chris

Hi Chris, sounds like a good read and that you got a lot out of it.

Just a pointer on Nyquist. Nyquist says that we can recover the frequency not the waveform. Sine, triangle, square wave, Nyquist does not know or care.

 

[Beck]

I always thought it was because only bass frequencies could be heard 1000 yards away when played by speakers mounted inside a moving vehicle that is not within line of sight. Isn't that the whole point to car audio? To make sure you are heard by and that you annoy everyone within earshot and then some? Hmmm... I may have to rethink this issue completely!

Cheers,

Otto

Yeah, you nailed it... but I did pretty well with Jensen speakers mounted in the grill of my '72 Mustang Mach I, blasting everything from Deep Purple to The beach Boys to ELO.

 

[cjacek]

Oh, no, here it comes:

The War on Digital!

...and what's wrong with that, especially as it appears on the Analog Only forum ?

What's the threat color for today? Oxide brown?

Well put! LOL!!

 

[evm1024]

Bach is my hero

I always thought it was because only bass frequencies could be heard 1000 yards away when played by speakers mounted inside a moving vehicle that is not within line of sight. Isn't that the whole point to car audio? To make sure you are heard by and that you annoy everyone within earshot and then some? Hmmm... I may have to rethink this issue completely!

Cheers,

Otto

Careful, careful. Bach invented the syncopated beat.

 

[cjacek]

Just to be super clear that I try not to make this into a personal issue when I discuss my anti-digital views. It is not a personal war with anyone but with digital. I personally find this thread very educational, thought provoking and one which, hopefully, makes me a better writer, communicator and listener.

 

[Dr ZEE]

"Digital Sucks" is NOT equal to "I Hate Digital". Also, "Digital Sucks" has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with any pointings towards an individual who uses and/or loves digital in any way.
"Digital Sucks" is something that an individual-X expresses about his/her finding, after finding out that Digital Sucks. No more, no less.
When and if someone approaches the individual-X above with a notion that somehow his/her finding is invalid due to his/her lack of experience/knowledge/understanding or/and with the demand for presentation of "data" to prove it, then that someone may and most likely will receive what he/she was actually asking for instead of what he/she wished/expected to receive.
What we wish to get when asking for something and what we actually asking for is not the same thing. It depends on what, where and how.
********
Example:
The Wish: Get A Gun.
The Act of Asking: Walk downtown on 5th Ave. Approach a Cop. Say: "Hey, Man, what's up. I like your Gun. Give it to me."

 

[cjacek]

Also, "Digital Sucks" has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with any pointings towards an individual who uses and/or loves digital in any way.

Ain't it amazing .... We posted the same exact thought, at the same time, worded differently.

 

[robin watson]

If someone can convert my old Revox A77 to a 24 track head and 9ft spool capacity, make it rewind 5 hours of music in a split second, allow me to slice and dice the tape and not leave a mark, keep it under 15kg and 2k$, I'm going the analog route, because it sounds better.

 

[Beck]

Daniel for you to express your problems with DIGITAL AUDIO on a DIGITAL AUDIO forum could not be more appropriate. Again, how can you not understand that? What is your problem?

Regards, Tim G

Tim G, you're really the odd man out here. Sorry, but you’re the only one that doesn’t seem to get it. Maybe that should cause you to reevaluate your perspective.

For one there is no "Digital Only" forum.

In most other forums, and other boards for that matter, digital isn't questioned in its entirety. The only question is “which digital?”

To walk into such a conflagration of ignorance with what would amount to a water pistol of truth would benefit no one. And by ignorance, I mean in the classic sense, as people just not being aware.

I’m inviting interested members to share their thoughts, technical and experiential insights. You seem to be doing everything possible to prevent such an open discourse.

Technically speaking, I’m not afraid of where it might lead. There are no wrong answers as pertaining to the subject at hand. No one could possibly feel more isolated than I do, even on this forum. Perhaps no one is as comfortable in their own skin either, but you get the point.

A conversation about what we should be allowed to discuss in the analog forum sounds like a subject for another thread to me.

 

[Beck]

If someone can convert my old Revox A77 to a 24 track head and 9ft spool capacity, make it rewind 5 hours of music in a split second, allow me to slice and dice the tape and not leave a mark, keep it under 15kg and 2k$, I'm going the analog route, because it sounds better.

Here... you can have your two dollars back.

 

[robin watson]

Here... you can have your two dollars back.

Deal deal: I just made myself $1.98!

 

[Beck]

Deal deal: I just made myself $1.98!

I've always said math can be fun.

 

[Slowrider]

You guys make me wanna break out the old 8-Track player and listen to the Beatles.....in Quad!!

 

[ofajen]

Attention:

Due to wholly unsubstantiated rumors about the upcoming demise of RMGI gleaned by spying on Internet cafe activity in Rumania, today's digital threat level has been raised to "red oxide". Please carry on your usual tape recording activities, but maintain an enhanced level of vigilance.

Thank you.

Office of Home-recording Security
Bureau of Tape Affairs