USB Extender over Ethernet vs. Active USB cable

[sumitsimlai]

BTW I just had an amusing reply from PRESONUS support:

"We recommend using a usb cable that is less then 5ft. We hope this helps."

So perhaps the only way is to shove the audio interface to the inside of the computer cabinet where it will pick up all the electromagnetic noise. Big mistake to have purchased this product without prior knowledge.

 

[ecc83]

BTW I just had an amusing reply from PRESONUS support:

"We recommend using a usb cable that is less then 5ft. We hope this helps."

So perhaps the only way is to shove the audio interface to the inside of the computer cabinet where it will pick up all the electromagnetic noise. Big mistake to have purchased this product without prior knowledge.

That is silly! Five feet is barely over a meter, sure they don't mean 3.2 speed? Even so, not really a practical length. I suspect this is just another case of the b sucking lawyers covering the corporate arse..."We SAID it might not work on 2 m cable...FO!"

The last sentence perpetuates a common myth, that internal PCIe cards MUST have an inferior S./N than a USB or vetran FWire interface? Not so, I used 3 M Audio 2496 cards and they had a noise floor of -98dBFS always with a wee 3dB bump at 50Hz. RME still sell the HDSPe AIO Pro cards with an UNWEIGHTED S/N spec of around -116dB. Less than a dozen external interfaces break the -120dB noise spec' AFAIK? -116dB is more than good enough for almost any purpose. (find me a balanced line stage that good?)

Dave.

 

[Folkcafe]

BTW I just had an amusing reply from PRESONUS support:

"We recommend using a usb cable that is less then 5ft. We hope this helps."

So perhaps the only way is to shove the audio interface to the inside of the computer cabinet where it will pick up all the electromagnetic noise. Big mistake to have purchased this product without prior knowledge.

Here's the issue and what is making it difficult to figure out how to advise you. Most of your questions come in the form of "what will work in theory". Nowhere I can tell in any of your posts have you explained what you've actually done and tried and what is working and what is not.

For instance, you stated you read somewhere that synths don't like long cables. What have you actually tried to confirm or dispel this? This is not an exact science where I can tell you what is going to work. It is going to take some trial and error work on your part and if you want advice, communicate what you've found out from actually plugging things in and trying it out.

 

[sumitsimlai]

So what would you suggest? Shall I take a chance and go for a 3 m long cable? That’s the length I would need.

 

[Folkcafe]

Editing a post seems to be messed up for me today.

To the OP, Try some of what you've got and see what works. As to your interface, what have you actually tried? The common advice is to try a non=active extension cable or a long A to B USB cable and see if it will work. You've not indicated what you've tried, so cannot advise much in the absence of information.

 

[rob aylestone]

The thing here is that you seem reluctant to experiment. I can tell you that my interface with a short lead to the computer (and my interface used to be a presonus) was the quietest I have had. My now long USB is slightly crackly. It may mean nothing or just be bad luck, but most interference gets picked up on the screen of cables, so a longer one captures more, if that noise is there.

The other thing is you can buy a pile of stuff on amazon, try them and return the ones that don't work for you - the fact it works for us, or not, is just luck in many ways. If the Manufacturer says short, then short is clearly, for them, the best advice to hand out.

 

[sumitsimlai]

I agree folks that I have not responded with feedback on trials. Problem is unless I have arranged my space, I’m unable to supply power even. And the arrangement and rearranging has resulted into a complete chaos in my room with barely space to move. That is why, if I knew for certainty what will work or not work, I’m unable to organise devices to connect to the computer. It’s a problem that I’m unable to explain. Sorry but there’s nothing like reluctance.

So here I’m back at square one and that’s why I thought I’ll ask if I could go ahead with a 3m cable for each USB MIDI device, assuming it’s working well for someone here.

By the way I bumped into an old iConnectMIDI4+, and it talks about Ethernet transmission of MIDI over long distances. But again, the two Roland AIRA S1 and J6 clearly states: NO HUBS.

 

[rob aylestone]

The snag is we cannot tell you. We have our gear, you have yours, and implementations of USB (in all the versions and socketry) mean it's down to stability at your location. You're going to have to wait, or simply take the gear into any space - the kitchen usually has lots of power outlets. Plug it up and try it. It really doesn't need to be in the real room. Grab the computer, power it up, connect the interface and plug some headphones in. Surely a ten minute job?

 

[drtechno]

I take a cue from an old thread on the same subject which unfortunately, as I see it, wasn’t resolved.

It’s here:

USB extension for Audio Interface

These days, particularly with increasing computing power, fan noise from chassis and SMPS are unimaginable higher than yesteryears. This means that there’s a growing need of having computers sit in another room or at a distance where noise is greatly muffled.

I’m addition, home studios are inherently small, whereas the growing lust to add devices ans to do better recordings, have all resulted into crammed spaces.

The downside to all this is a direct hit on the issue of USB connectivity of at least the following types of devices:

1. Mice and QWERTY keyboards
2. USB based MIDI controllers, faders, control surfaces
3. USB based MIDI keyboards
4. USB based audio interfaces (I think all of them are)
5. USB based MIDI Interfaces
6. USB based hardware synthesiser modules

Most of devices are supplied with barely sufficient lengths of USB cables for connecting to a computer. Most will never reach the distance involved, with the computers either moved to another room or to another location in the same room, far from the recording desk.

Those who can afford it, will clearly go the Ethernet route using Dante and what not. But the bulk majority of us can’t.

So there has to be a workaround.

In my journey to set up my studio some quite some months now, and with the same dilemma as above, I have pondered over the limited options of USB 2.0 connectivity without any signal degradation. One option is an active USB 2.0 and the other is the use of a USB Extender with two powered devices connected by a CAT 5e cable.

I have tried the latter with success while connecting a keyboard and a mouse. I haven’t yet tried any audio device, because nothing is in working condition right now. But I have to plan everything based on this aspect - distance.

I have scoured the Internet and have only read limited usage by some people including Tom Holkenborg. Tom displayed the AV Access which he was using for extending his mouse. He’s never mentioned anything about using UZB Extenders with any of the above types of devices.

Sorry for the long post but I do need serious inputs from those who have had experience in this area and what solutions they deployed.

KVM console extenders start around $450 but I doubt the could handle an audio interface. Midi wouldn't be an issue. Because most won't do beyond 10Mbps.
Dante doesn't get expensive until you start wanting monitoring from it which is the same situation if you want computer monitoring to/from USB which in both cases a dsp matrix mixer is involved. This could be a digital mixer, a dante interface with integrated mixer, a dante card with a dsp matrix mixer or a protools hdx, matrix II or matrix studio (which the last two have a dante i/o on its matrix mixer in addition to the standard protools i/o offerings).

This one should work. https://www.startech.com/en-us/server-management/sv565utphdu But for $915 it would be hard to justify compare with the standard $450 kvm plus a small mic snake run. A basic dante setup would be around $300.

Of course a combination of a standard KVM extender plus a USB2.0 over CAT 6 extender would work if the wire run is less than 200 ft.

 

[Folkcafe]

KVM console extenders start around $450 but I doubt the could handle an audio interface. Midi wouldn't be an issue. Because most won't do beyond 10Mbps.
Dante doesn't get expensive until you start wanting monitoring from it which is the same situation if you want computer monitoring to/from USB which in both cases a dsp matrix mixer is involved. This could be a digital mixer, a dante interface with integrated mixer, a dante card with a dsp matrix mixer or a protools hdx, matrix II or matrix studio (which the last two have a dante i/o on its matrix mixer in addition to the standard protools i/o offerings.

This one should work. https://www.startech.com/en-us/server-management/sv565utphdu But for $915 it would be hard to justify compare with the standard $450 kvm plus a small mic snake run. A basic dante setup would be around $300.

OP is in India which makes cost and procurement a bit more challenging. He also seems hamstrung by his wish to just put it all together and have it just work vs experimenting with what he has. I don't think he gets that he can just coil the cable up and test the two devices to see if length is an issue. As long as excessive electrical noise isn't an issue, it is essentially the same as running it from one room to another. I've seen his username pop up but he hasn't responded to our suggestion to experiment with what he already has first.

To the OP, I get you are worried about some of what you've read. Like with a couple of your keyboards saying to plug in direct. I have a Thunderbolt hub I am using with multiple controllers. All work just fine except one doesn't automatically gets recognized by Cubase unless I un-plug it and plug back in. You just won't know till you try some stuff.

 

[drtechno]

By the way I bumped into an old iConnectMIDI4+, and it talks about Ethernet transmission of MIDI over long distances. But again, the two Roland AIRA S1 and J6 clearly states: NO HUBS.

if midi is transmitted in the standard format, theoretically you can cable it to a 500 ft run. since it is 10V serial.

 

[drtechno]

I have a Thunderbolt hub I am using with multiple controllers. All work just fine except one doesn't automatically gets recognized by Cubase unless I un-plug it and plug back in. You just won't know till you try some stuff.

I have noticed people mentioning having to re-plug thunderbolt stuff. That is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a few stuff that is thunderbolt based.

 

[Folkcafe]

I have noticed people mentioning having to re-plug thunderbolt stuff. That is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a few stuff that is thunderbolt based.

1. It's a Mac and Thunderbolt works just fine typically. The issue is that I'm using a hub for both Thunderbolt and USB 3.0. Also it is only one device a Nectar controller. All others work without any issue. So not unplugging the Thunderbolt cable but rather the USB cable from the back of the Nectar keyboard.

Edit, I have heard reports of the M1 Mac having issues with a second display connected directly via Thunderbolt. I initially ran a CalDigit Hub with HDMI to run two monitors and had no issues other than the reflection from the speakers so went back to single monitor.

 

[drtechno]

1. It's a Mac and Thunderbolt works just fine typically. The issue is that I'm using a hub for both Thunderbolt and USB 3.0. Also it is only one device a Nectar controller. All others work without any issue. So not unplugging the Thunderbolt cable but rather the USB cable from the back of the Nectar keyboard.

Edit, I have heard reports of the M1 Mac having issues with a second display connected directly via Thunderbolt. I initially ran a CalDigit Hub with HDMI to run two monitors and had no issues other than the reflection from the speakers so went back to single monitor.

usb port was put to sleep but hardware is not re-initializing on wake.
Its a flaw that is OS related to sleep wake mode not keeping the usb devices connected but in "ejected" state.
Try in a console terminal:
sudo pmset disksleep 0
sudo pmset sleep 0
sudo pmset autopoweroff 0