Digital Piano / Synth / Midi... Help!

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F88

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Hi Guys,

First and foremost, I am so glad I stumbled across this place. There is so much knowledge here, and I hope to tap into some of it now and into the future.

I am currently overseas with the military with very very ordinary internet connections available, so any help recieved here will be greatly appreciated. Researching is becoming painful.. I load up Youtube vids overnight!

Look, in a nutshell I am new to all things Synth and MIDI. When I get home I have a Manson MB-1 with KAOSS MIDI controller awaiting me, and I intend to purchase a Korg KP3 to accompany.

I really want to round out my new home studio - and always had a Digital Piano in mind. But now with my MIDI possibilities I am leaning towards the Synth world and really don't know where to start.

Is there a happy medium between the two? What sort of kit should I look at purchasing or reseach further?

I am finding it difficult to visualise the logical equipment trail.

Any help offered is appreciated. I apologise for being long winded and vague. I will make amends, I promise :)

Cheers guys.

D
 
Hi F88.

This site has helped me immensely. tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
 
Are you a piano player, or do you want your keyboard tracks to sound like a real piano? Get a digital piano.

If you're looking to make unusual electronic sounds or to emulate a variety of instruments, get a synth.

Of course you can use any kind of MIDI keyboard (piano, synth, or dedicated controller) to play virtual instruments (VSTi), so you're not really locked in either way.
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

I guess I am looking for flexibility given that one of my major inspirations is Matt Bellamy of Muse, styles that range from straight classical grand piano through to fully experimental sounds and effects.

I wasn't sure at the ability of a digi piano to be a midi controller I guess.

Another question - if you have the software, VSTi's etc, what would be the real advantage of dropping another 2-3k on a dedicated synth?
 
Dee Envy said:
Hi F88.

This site has helped me immensely. tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
Click to expand...

That was a great first post btw.

Such a great resource. Ive learnt heaps from there already.

Still have a million questions, but we'll see how I go :)

Thank you.
 
Hi,
I have been 'researching' digital pianos over the last few weeks.

You don't mention a budget, so I am going to jump in and let you know what I have found out, in the hope that it may be helpful for you in some ways.

My requirements were these:
1. 'Entry' level digital piano (i.e., full 88 key instrument, with keys weighted like an acoustic piano)
2. Portable (i.e., could be carried to a car without any problem, and could be set up and taken down after practice without any trouble)
3. Fairly small in size - has a small 'footprint'
4. Built in speakers
5. Budget of under CAN $1500

I narrowed down my search to a few Rolands and Yamahas.

I eventually ruled out the Roland FP series because the stands were/are built in, and the pianos are therefore a piece of furniture on their own.

I decided to make my choice between the Yamaha P 95, and the next model up, the Yamaha P 155 (the latter is bigger than the former, and has more sophisticated sampling of the Yamaha Grand Piano that was used for one or two of its voices).

Each of these instruments is very much a digital piano, containing a few extra instruments/voices.

I was very pleased to learn that they both have MIDI (or Yamaha's equivalent) capability. The P95 does not have dedicated line outs, assigning this function to the headphone output. The P 95 is almost exactly half the price of the P 155, at CAN. $679.

I have realized in the last few days that, despite the MIDI capability, it might actually be a good idea to have an instrument with a comprehensive range of voices and effects, and have therefore broadened my search to include the Yamaha DGX 630, which has a full 88 key fingerboard, and lots of 'bells and whistles' (effects, and other instruments).

If the DGX 630 were a lot physically smaller, I would buy it immediately. However it will take up a good deal of space in my medium sized living room, and I would like my piano to not be a piece of furniture (and would like it to be portable, which at 56 lbs. limits it a bit).


So, I am left with a bit of a dilemma.

I hope that this has been useful.

All the best,
gvdv
 
Gvdv,

Thanks so much for your informative post.

I too flirted with the ideal of the DGX630, and apart from being butt ugly it certainly does everything I would want and more (without dropping 5k on a dedicated synth). I can pick up one of these for around the $1000AU mark at first glance which is well within my budget.

I have the advantage of not needing to purchase until I get back home (mid-year), so I can ponder some more. But the 630 definitely ticks all the boxes.

Size isn't a huge concern for me, nor will weight. I don't plan on lugging it around much and it'll be down in the garage anyway.

Everything I have heard about built in speakers tends to be shifty, but in reality my requirements aren't at a professional level anyway. I'll be happy with a flexbile instrument, 88 weighted keys, and MIDI ability.

Again, thanks so much for your post. I really appreciate your input.

Cheers
 
Aim higher

A long and experienced musician's opinion:

I see this a lot, that people get interested in music and want to take it up, and often have a nice budget to work with. They start looking at things that, to their uneducated understanding, seems to offer a lot of what they desire and have in mind. What ends up happening, though, is that they buy cheap toys that are not even close to being professional, and they exhaust the instrument's abilities fairly quick.

When a person like F88 says he is intending to get into digital piano, AND a MIDI controller, and thinks about possibly dropping an extra Two to Three grand on a dedicated synth, this does not sound like somebody who wants to remain an amateur. I would strongly advise him to do more research and aim higher.

For $2,000 you can have the very best, state-of-the art workstation with the best piano sounds and synthesis making abilities to last you for at least 2 decades. Consider the Kurzweil PC3X.

With the added software editor that is free from Sound Tower, (you put that software on your PC and then control and tweak the zillion parameters inside the Kurzweil from your PC hooked up via a MIDI cable), you have an awesome studio right there in that one piece of equipment. There's not a smarter buy anywhere. It's the best of all worlds. Best technology, portable, world-class, and fairly inexpensive.

To the other(s), again I tell people to aim higher. What starts off as a fascination with music, can lead to disappointment in buying toy instruments. If you're interested in piano realism, and that's the only thing you're interested in, then by all means get yourself a good, real, acoustic upright/spinnet piano. I'm not a huge fan of Yamahas, but in the upright piano they do a pretty good job.

If you're into digital piano and also want to get into MIDI capabilities and other instruments, ask yourself why? Because an instrument that has a couple piano sounds and a few dozen other sounds thrown into the mix, will more than likely disappoint you after some time, in my opinion. The instruments that are bundled in, are typically not very useful, cannot be combined in split and zoned mode (to allow you to play 2 or more instruments at the same time, i.e. Bass in the left hand and piano in the right, and a trumpet at the far right end of the keyboard).

If you're just insterested in music the same way people used to buy all-in-one organs from piano stores in malls, well then that's different. You're not really serious about music, per se, but are kind of fascinated with it and want an instrument in the house for your niece and nephew to play around with, too, with when they visit.

So in summary, if you're going to take up music on a semi-serious nature, I advise aiming higher and understanding that by spending a little more and getting a professional instrument with synthesis making abilities in it, you will be far happier. All synthesizers have preset sounds in them so you can play them right out of the box. But after you have exhausted those sounds, you'll definitely be glad that you can create your own, and tailor the presets to sound more like some specific instrument you have in mind. But oh wow, then, the real fun begins - creating and customizing your own sounds!!!!

One last thing about the Kurzweil PC3X - 88 weighted keys, best piano samples, almost 1000 famous sounding instruments in the presets of all varieties, 100 drum kits, a fantastic Sequencer in which to build an entire song (drums, bass, guitars, pianos, organs, synths, etc.) and several hundred other powerful features and abilities. All for a couple grand.

My $.02
 
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Thanks Todd.

I come from a guitar background and have just invested heavily on that side of the fence. My ultimate goal here is to have myself a small home studio, and given that I love the piano even more than the guitar (yet can't play one), I doubt I could settle on something cheap and nasty and be content with my purchase.

MIDI obviously offers flexibility, and my guitar has a Korg Midi Controller built in, so I will be experimenting down that path regardless.

At the end of the day I really only had a broad idea of what I want to get out of the piano/synth side of things. The artists that most inspire me are guitarists and pianists in equal parts. I love the piano as an instrument. I love listening to piano. I WANT to play piano. But I also want the flexibility (and you're right on this point) that a synth/workstation will offer. Creativity can take you anywhere, and given my broad tastes in music.. I really don't want to be stuck with an instrument incapable of taking that journey with me.

I genuinely appreciate the time you took to put in your 2c.

Thanks for the recommendation too. If I can pick one up at a reasonable price then it might be just what I'm after. After dropping six grand on a guitar, a certain wife type character will have a vested interest in how much I spend on my piano/synth (or thanks to Todd... probably a workstation..)

Again, thanks mate.
 
F88 said:
Gvdv,

Thanks so much for your informative post.

I too flirted with the ideal of the DGX630, and apart from being butt ugly it certainly does everything I would want and more (without dropping 5k on a dedicated synth). I can pick up one of these for around the $1000AU mark at first glance which is well within my budget.

I have the advantage of not needing to purchase until I get back home (mid-year), so I can ponder some more. But the 630 definitely ticks all the boxes.

Size isn't a huge concern for me, nor will weight. I don't plan on lugging it around much and it'll be down in the garage anyway.

Everything I have heard about built in speakers tends to be shifty, but in reality my requirements aren't at a professional level anyway. I'll be happy with a flexbile instrument, 88 weighted keys, and MIDI ability.

Again, thanks so much for your post. I really appreciate your input.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Hi F88,
You're most welcome.

I had a concern about the quality of internal speakers, too, and certainly have not been overly impressed by the ones on the P 155 or DGX 630. The former, though, has outputs so that one can connect to an external amp.

Also, I'm presuming that your set up will allow you to route your keyboard into your computer and monitor/listen through the computer monitors. I realize, though, that you might not want to have to turn on the computer every time you play the keyboard.

All the best with your search, and keep us posted on your decision.

Gvdv.
 
I'm fairly new here but in a similar position, putting together a home studio after many years away from music (pro for 15 years until then). My solution to the "classical piano" plus "anything else that comes to mind" dilemma is a MIDI'd Kawai ES6 for piano feel and an Axiom Pro 49 midi controller for the other stuff (inc. playing in orchestral midi). I will rely on VST instruments for the "real" sounds - like Ivory, EastWest, Trilian, Omnisphere to name four. The Kawai is compact but has speakers which allow me to try out ideas without having to fire up the whole rig. I testing a number of digital piano's side by side, and even some acoustic grands at the same time, and for a classically trained pianist the Kawai came out way in front for my taste as a compact midi piano controller with speakers.

Good luck with yours!

Robert
 
Hey guys
going to throw my 2c in here.
I have owned a Yamaha S90es for about 4 years, and only recently (6 months) started exploring the VST instrument side of things. Prior to that I was recording all my piano as straight audio from the yamaha.

The one thing I've noticed is that, in my experience, the decent Vst piano's sound a lot more "real" than the onboard sounds on any of the entry to mid level keyboards I've encountered.
This rambling post will eventually go somewhere, but to help I will make my points bullet's.

*Touch and weighting is more important than sound
ie. you can always the keyboard as a controller for other sounds.

*If your recording, you more than likely have speakers/headphones, so those dodgy inbuilt speakers on Digi piano's will be superfluous

*Investing in a decent Virtual piano pays massive dividends (I went with VI's Alicia's keys and am really happy with it)

*when you mainly use VST's, new sounds are only mouse clicks away, and you can keep the same setup (not switching midi/audio cables around) and play any sound you want.

That said, I am still marveling at ideas and different ways of working that I find every day on this site, so please don't think I am saying this with any kind of snobbery or reluctance to change.
 
Thought I'd just add that my "piano VST of choice" is perhaps now "Emotional Piano" by Tonehammer. Awesome sound that seems to suit the way I approach playing and composition. I haven't compared it with EastWest or Ivory pianos as yet though (perhaps someone has?).
 
Leroy Hotdogs Z said:
The one thing I've noticed is that, in my experience, the decent Vst piano's sound a lot more "real" than the onboard sounds on any of the entry to mid level keyboards I've encountered.
This rambling post will eventually go somewhere, but to help I will make my points bullet's.
Click to expand...

I have only just gotten home from O/S and am now in the market to make my purchase.

I have considered the previous (and rather convincing post) by Todd to just get myself a synth - the PC3X sounds like an incredible instrument and the variety has me interested. It's double the investment but I am currently just weighing up whether a good 'feeling' digital piano and tonnes of VST suites will do me - long term.

Is there much latency with VST's? Im prepared to build a good system around it (and will build one regardless of which way I go piano wise)..

I am actively researching all of this now that I'm home, but I really enjoy everyone's first hand experiences and opinions. They have all been GOLD and I appreciate them.

Cheers
 
MIDI is most needed in digital piano because translate songs possible in this software.MIDI support the software and digital card and digital piano.
 
The keyboards with built in speakers are great for specific purposes. If you are planning on using your piano/keyboard for teaching then a DGX 630 would be a fine instrument, nothing really complex, just plug it in and play. If you are planning on recording you will want a higher end workstation. Specifically keyboards such as a korg m3, yamaha motif, roland fantom, etc. Those will give you flexibility for any recording. I have a large amount of keyboards and also have the yamaha dgx 620 and use it as a controller and for students to play on for lessons. I use the m3 for live and studio purposes and the quality of the samples on the korg m3 make the dgx seem like a tin toy.
 
I've had a clavinova for years, a basic one and am looking to upgrade. Currently looking for a second hand model with midi compatibility.
 
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