Damn Headphones!

[Kasey]

One can produce material specifically (or primarily) to be listened on headphones.

which is actually exactly my preference for people listening to my music. If i had a choice in the way people listen to it, i'd give them a pair of headphones. But, there are still going to be the people who listen to it on speakers - and with what i'm doing right now, it really sucks to be those people.

 

[Dr ZEE]

which is actually exactly my preference for people listening to my music. If i had a choice in the way people listen to it, i'd give them a pair of headphones. But, there are still going to be the people who listen to it on speakers - and with what i'm doing right now, it really sucks to be those people.

Right. The problem. The way I try to look at this is this: try to view it more as unavoidable reality and less as a problem...and then deal with the "problem".
Mixing with headphones trying to make a "nice headphone mix" and then hoping to please a listener who does not have/use headphones is probably not a very good idea , ...
What to do? I personally do not know for sure. Maybe crafting/mixing your tracks with headphones and also check your mixes playing through stereo-speakers/monitors and work things out that way. You can setup studio nearfield monitors (including placing your head in the right spot ) so it gives you some sort of "headphones simulation" .... and go that way. But then again, you don't really know for sure what have you done for your 'headphone-fan/listener' without actually listening through headphones. And what headphones? Which ones? oh, boy .... The headphones with little or "no" coloration (or at least the ones that claim to be that way)? - Maybe. But how many of "yor listeners" have/use them? - more "problems". I practically keep a small collection of consumer headphones... from large and ugly through mini(s) 'n cool ones .... all I can tell, that in my case a nice set of studio monitors failed miserably to replace that "collection".... or maybe I failed miserably to 'learn' how to use a nice set of studio monitors so they could replace my 'collection'... which ever may apply

/respects

 

[frankieballsss]

Because then you know, that what ever the "respected ones" do is irrelevent to what you actually (practically, not imaginarily) have to deal with in your specific situation.

/respects

What the hell are you talking about man? I just specifically pointed out that club music producers I know don't use the method of listening to club speakers that you are talking about. So basically its completely relevant to this "specific situation."


As for the rest of your post, I don't know where you learned engineering, but a lot of the methods you listed as acceptable are highly questionable. There is a line between being experimental with your mixing and downright BREAKING RULES THAT CAN NOT BE BROKEN.

Bottom line is, monitors are an irreplaceable standard for listening and mixing purposes in the recording business.

 

[frankieballsss]

I practically keep a small collection of consumer headphones... from large and ugly through mini(s) 'n cool ones .... all I can tell, that in my case a nice set of studio monitors failed miserably to replace that "collection".... or maybe I failed miserably to 'learn' how to use a nice set of studio monitors so they could replace my 'collection'... which ever may apply

/respects

I'm going to go with the latter. Seriously man, think before you post something like this. Make way for Dr Zee for he shall re-write all the laws of convention in mixing for headphones.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Bottom line is, monitors are an irreplaceable standard for listening and mixing purposes in the recording business.

That is correct. Every and any salesman in any music instruments/recording equipment store knows it and will tell you that. There's nothing really to "discuss" here.

...I don't know where you learned engineering...

I didn't. I'm not an engineer. I have 'mentors' for an inspiration though...

/respects

 

[Dr ZEE]

I'm going to go with the latter.

me too. I try not to blame a piece of a gear.... even when I REALLY FREAKING FEEL like doing just that ...heh heh

Seriously man, think before you post something like this..

I did.


/respects

 

[jkokura]

If everybody here just owned MoreMe headphones, you'd never be tempted to try and mix on them, and we'd never have these discussions ever again.

I MUST hear these headphones! Can it be true?

Jacob

 

[Kasey]

There is a line between being experimental with your mixing and downright BREAKING RULES THAT CAN NOT BE BROKEN.

please tell me this was sarcastic. if not.... i dont know, shut up. get out of my thread. yea. my thread.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I MUST hear these headphones! Can it be true?

Jacob

Absolutely !! They're terrible for mixing. Although some people have claimed they can mix with them, it sure as hell wasn't me. If someone held a gun to my head and said do a good mix with these, or you're dead, I'd tell them to "go ahead and kill me now". At least I'd be spared the suffering of having to try and mix on them.

They're good for tracking, playing loud, and not breaking - and they're dirt cheap. Mixing? Get a decent set of monitors. Play your mixes quietly till you get close, then crank it for a second to see if the mix still sounds good, then turn it down (so the neighbors can't figure out where the hell the noise is coming from at 1 o'clock in the morning).

 

[Dr ZEE]

There is a line between being experimental with your mixing and downright BREAKING RULES THAT CAN NOT BE BROKEN. .

That is true if you're a building engineer and are mixing cement.

now, who ever that may apply to... : go ahead, send me another anonymous "moron"-note. LOL

/respects

 

[MISTERQCUE]

Kasey, I feel your pain especially when you're financially "handcuffed" preventing you from acquiring the most basic of tools for tracking and mixing.
The most basic advice I can give you is to start saving a dollar here & there for inproving your monitoring situation. Headphones s/b considered & used as 1 of several cross-references when listening to how your mix translates to other formats (such as your home/car stereo, c/d walkman etc.).

I originally started "monitoring" with a pair of A/R home & cheap,Gemini loud spkrs. Generally, home spkr systems come with hyped mids and lo's where using them for "monitoring" required you to train,tune & adjust your ears to the spkrs perf. Though on a few occasions (VERY FEW) I was able to use my cheap-@ss "monitoring" set-up to do a decent mix, most of the time my crappy-@ss songs sounded utterly horrible! Realizing that I needed monitors, I simply started saving what I could (along with robbing old ladies, stealing from the church collection box & jackin' little kids for thier lunch money!!) in order to upgrade. Flat-response, clear translation with no freq'y-hype is what I needed for adequate & proper judging!

My monitoring system is a simple, cost-effective & a non-member of the "upper echelon" speaker club consists of a pair of Event 20/20's (bought used at a huge discount), Tannoy Proto-J's and Tannoy Reveals & AKG 240 headphns(purchased slightly used at d@mn near 65% below street). I use the Reveals for judging, the 20's & Proto-J's for basic,cross-ref'ing and the 240's for "other format" translations in conjunction with my home & car stereo!

Though my mixes have improved, my crappy-@ss songs STILL suck!

Dooood trust me, using a decent set of flat-response pass or active monitors for judging will most def'ly improve your mixes!

My .000000000000001 cent worth!

Peace,
Q.rM

 

[jkokura]

Absolutely !! They're terrible for mixing. Although some people have claimed they can mix with them, it sure as hell wasn't me. If someone held a gun to my head and said do a good mix with these, or you're dead, I'd tell them to "go ahead and kill me now". At least I'd be spared the suffering of having to try and mix on them.

They're good for tracking, playing loud, and not breaking - and they're dirt cheap. Mixing? Get a decent set of monitors. Play your mixes quietly till you get close, then crank it for a second to see if the mix still sounds good, then turn it down (so the neighbors can't figure out where the hell the noise is coming from at 1 o'clock in the morning).

err...sorry Harvey, but I was kinda being a little facetious...But I did however search these headphones, and if I ever need to replace my cheap Beri whatever-3000 tracking headphones I'll definately give a couple pairs a try. I use a pair of Event TR6's for my mixing...

Jacob

 

[frankieballsss]

please tell me this was sarcastic. if not.... i dont know, shut up. get out of my thread. yea. my thread.

My statement was in reference to using headphones over monitors. THIS IS A RULE THAT CAN'T BE BROKEN, NO IF AND OR BUTS. I can accept that your reading comprehension skills aren't good, but lets not name call here.

Using headphones to mix CANNOT be done, bottom line.


Just to let you know, besides this last point, your thread is worthless. So don't get testy with me and try to "Internet flex" with me and tell me to "get out of your thread".


Or you can go listen to Mr. Zee, "Mixing on my ns10's sucks, I have 10 sets of headphones and I mix on them over my ns10's." The fact that he bought ns10's as his primary monitors says leaps and bounds about where hes at as an engineer.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Or you can go listen to Mr. Zee, "Mixing on my ns10's sucks, I have 10 sets of headphones and I mix on them over my ns10's." The fact that he bought ns10's as his primary monitors says leaps and bounds about where hes at as an engineer.

Kasey, don't listen to me. I'm not here to teach nor give you (nor anybody else) a f*ng "advice". You've expressed your anger - I've just shared my "story" - that's all that is.
MISTERQCUE's and Jeffree's post sounds like REAL life experience. The rest of the rant from self-proclaimed pros here is just another swing of one big fart, comming from a "mighty-bunch" of self-proclaimed "PROs" and flying over these b-boards . You can't hide - it's gonna get you...

Hey, frankieballsss, - you've made your point! Cool! You can pass my regards and salute to all the "respected" club-producers you know.

 

[frankieballsss]

Kasey, don't listen to me. I'm not here to teach nor give you (nor anybody else) a f*ng "advice". You've expressed your anger - I've just shared my "story" - that's all that is.
MISTERQCUE's and Jeffree's post sounds like REAL life experience. The rest of the rant from self-proclaimed pros here is just another swing of one big fart, comming from a "mighty-bunch" of self-proclaimed "PROs" and flying over these b-boards . You can't hide - it's gonna get you...

Hey, frankieballsss, - you've made your point! Cool! You can pass my regards and salute to all the "respected" club-producers you know.

I never claimed to be a pro. Although unlike your claims, everything I've said is factual and not hypothesis. So instead of worrying about my credibility, get your facts straight and don't talk on a whim.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The rest of the rant from self-proclaimed pros here is just another swing of one big fart, comming from a "mighty-bunch" of self-proclaimed "PROs" and flying over these b-boards.

Sheesh, somedays, it just doesn't pay to get up.

 

[DavidK]

. The rest of the rant from self-proclaimed pros here is just another swing of one big fart, comming from a "mighty-bunch" of self-proclaimed "PROs" and flying over these b-boards . You can't hide - it's gonna get you...

I wish you could see how silly that looks.

Ummmm, some of these folks arent self-proclaimed pros, they are real, 100% A-1 top notch quality pros. Not just some dipshit makin beats in his mommys basement.

Put the money where your mouth is: are you a pro? I am, and I know enough about the biz that it's absurd to mix on headphones ( unless its all you have).

 

[thane1200]

When I finally got monitors I *hated* them. They showed me all the flaws in my mixes Then again, that's EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.

 

[K-dub]

I have stated, in another thread on this same subject, that it is okay to mix on headphones ... and FOR MYSELF ... frequently -- mixing on phones can get me into the right neighborhood with certain mix parameters. I know my phones VERY well.

THAT being said ---

I would NEVER completely and fully rely on a headphone mix either. That would be sonic suicide. If, as DavidK states above, it is all you have ... well there you go, that's all you have. Best of luck to ya -- but it's going to take you a world of tweaking to get things just right!!!

On the other hand, the problem stated earlier is that headphones aren't working well for translation -- not an uncommon problem -- BUT the key point being complained about is when the mix hits the open air via speakers.

...so logic would then predict that in order to get a good sound out of speakers, then one should be monitoring said sound through speakers. This makes simple common sense to me.

I do use headphones as a reference. I never, ever use it as my only reference. In fact, I take it even further by using no less than three speaker sources for further reference.

It's now time to leave this thread as these types of discussions produce red chicklets faster than even Adams gum manufacturing can turn them out.

Best,

Kev

 

[Kasey]

My statement was in reference to using headphones over monitors. THIS IS A RULE THAT CAN'T BE BROKEN, NO IF AND OR BUTS. I can accept that your reading comprehension skills aren't good, but lets not name call here.

Using headphones to mix CANNOT be done, bottom line.

While i agree that it is best to mix on monitors, that is by no means saying its impossible to mix on headphones. My current favorite album was mixed entirely on headphones, and it sounds amazing. there are no rules, don't act like there are.

Just to let you know, besides this last point, your thread is worthless. So don't get testy with me and try to "Internet flex" with me and tell me to "get out of your thread".

learn to take a joke. This thread was worthless from the start. it was me whining.