dammit, im lost in a void of complex tools

[bewildered]

this is so unbelievably frustrating. i want to produce progressive electronica, but i have no idea how to go about doing it. ive dicked around with reason, reaktor, and abysnth, but have no idea how to use them. where the hell does one learn the basics of all this music stuff. And if all these music programs are based off of basic principles, why are they all completely different? all im looking for in a program is one that is extremely noob friendly that has a powerful synth like absynth ( or one that i could incorporate abynth into).

what im really asking for is if anyone knows of a forum for progressive electronica music production. Or maybe a clue on where to start, cause tooling around with these complex programs is only making me more lost.

 

[when8]

im with you on this dude...i think the only really answer is to have a absolute idea of what you want to do then get stuck in...fiddle...nothing is like hands on experience!

check out audiomulch...its a freeware/donationware....really simple and really good...check out four tet...its one of the main weapons in his arsenal...everything he uses is pretty much freeware and "rounds" is a special album

www.fourtet.com check him out...its inspiration

good luck dude...its a long road but you have to get walking

 

[apl]

Maybe there's a "Sequencing For Dummies" book at your local library.

 

[bewildered]

yeah, i listen to four tet, but finding information on what these artists use to make their music is harder than finding who killed jfk. their so damn secretive, id even say greedy with their musical production knowledge. would anyone know where i would find what instruments/programs and techniques musicians like radiohead, takemura, fourtet, and boards of canada use? i always encounter people with randoms pieces of knowledge like WHEN8, but every time i ask them where they learned it they give me some bs answer. heres an example:

fourtet.com doesnt exist.

and can someone tell me what the hell sequencing is. all these fucking words and nothing to define them.


edit: tried audiomulch, its more confusing than reaktor. honestly reason has been the easiest to understand, too bad its synths sucks.

 

[apl]

Sequencing is creating a midi file that will produce the beats. The midi file tells the synth what to do.

Here's one book that covers it.

 

[jonnyc]

Hope you aren't throwing away all this money trying to figure stuff out, also hope you aren't stealing anything to give it a try. You asked where does someone learn this music stuff, it started for me in thrid grade. Take some lessons you'll learn.

 

[when8]

there is loads on fourtet...hes really cool about letting people know what he uses...i know there was a big article in musictech magazine(UK) and there is a piece on the net i read...go search

and my mistake

http://www.fourtet.net

 

[when8]

i even went and found it for you...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul03/articles/fourtet.asp

 

[thane1200]

Kick...Hi-Hat...Kick...Hi-Hat...Snare...Kick...Hi-Hat...Kick...Hi-Hat...Snare [repeat]

Then add crazy synths sounds.


Seriously though all you can do is read the instructions; then it's trial and error.

 

[Farview]

You can start by RTFM. Then go slowly. When I hear the word 'progressive' I think 'advanced'.

If you are really driven to create progressive music, you will take the time to learn something about music, production, and the tools needed.

There is no shortcut. No one is going to hold your hand and tell you, step by step, how to write a hit.

All of this stuff is made by people who learned how to use their tools and applied their creativity to the task at hand. It could take years.

 

[aaroncomp]

I haven't used the aforementioned programs, but I will say that the basic concepts with Fruity Loops is about as foolproof as it gets.

 

[ssscientist]

ive dicked around with reason, reaktor, and abysnth, but have no idea how to use them. where the hell does one learn the basics of all this music stuff. Or maybe a clue on where to start, cause tooling around with these complex programs is only making me more lost.

You've listed more than $1200 in music software and it's a crying shame that you've bought all those programs without first learning SOMETHING about why or where or how. Maybe you could try reading the manuals that came with the programs to find a clue on where to start...

 

[aaroncomp]

I'm not meaning to sound presumptive, but I'm guessing when he says he's "dicked around" with these programs, he doesn't mean purchased and used. Personally, I'm all for the try-it-before-you-buy-it philosophy, albeit illegal in most cases.

 

[ssscientist]

when he says he's "dicked around" with these programs, he doesn't mean purchased and used.

So, IYHO, he's using illegal software? And he has the brass balls to ask us, some of whom make our living developing, debugging and generally sweating over music software for help?

There's a whole bunch of free software out there - Audacity, Kristal, Jazz, etc. and a whole bunch more free VSTfx and VSTi's that developers WANT you to download. If he chooses not to go that route and take the 'it's out there and I'm entitled to it' attutude he shouldn't come to us, hat in hand, begging for some direction.

 

[aaroncomp]

So, IYHO, he's using illegal software? And he has the brass balls to ask us, some of whom make our living developing, debugging and generally sweating over music software for help?

There's a whole bunch of free software out there - Audacity, Kristal, Jazz, etc. and a whole bunch more free VSTfx and VSTi's that developers WANT you to download. If he chooses not to go that route and take the 'it's out there and I'm entitled to it' attutude he shouldn't come to us, hat in hand, begging for some direction.

What I was saying, as I stated in my second sentence above, is that I personally feel individuals should be given the oppurtunity to try any software for at least 1 week before spending $100s on something they don't like or can't grasp. In his case, I am guessing he did illegally use these programs, but only in pursuit of seeking something he was comforatble with. The current system is of course flawed - 1 week trials are easily overcome and the tendency to succumb to piracy is often met. So, yes, piracy is wrong, but I do feel buyers should be given opportune time to evaluate freely. JMHO.

 

[hueseph]

ive dicked around with reason, reaktor, and abysnth, but have no idea how to use them. where the hell does one learn the basics of all this music stuff.........................
.........maybe a clue on where to start.....

I think the first place to start is the manual. After that there's always books and school but the manual is usually a good source of info. Seeing as you have all that software, the manuals must be kickin' around somewhere.

 

[Toki987]

an F-14 is an independant aerial combat system that works off subsections incorporating basic principles.

wheels, wings, engines, guns.


Most the software out there for "making beats" is a system that works off basic principles.

generate tone, manipulate it, record it, play it back.

The "how" controls vary from software to software and machine to machine , but the basic principles remain the same.
Most of the manuals break these systems down into subsections and then explain the how in that chapter relating to the subsection. Reading is your greatest ally here.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo All:

Interesting comments here; I've been yapping for years that the "manufactering" folks do not supply manuals that can be understood, even by pretty smart folks, like those on this site.

So, hands-on practice? Yeah, it is all right but expensive and time-consumming.

I posted my sales rep at Sweetwater about the Mackie "tracktion" unit.

I asked for a short synopsis of the unit....his reply was, "It's 149.00 pezzutos and is for beginners. "Begin the Beguin?" Bad answer from a pretty knowledgeable person. I guess he isn't interested in selling that "low cost unit."

I suggest that taking an electronic music couse at a Junior College in one's area is a good deal. The cost will be very small and the class may be very enlightening. If a course is available at a bigger college, more better, as they will have more gear and more folks who know what's going on with the gear at hand.

I just sent away for a 3 hour DVD which goes into my Motif ES61--I hope it is worthwhile and not made for engineers.

Hey, it keeps life interesting.

Happy Labor Day to All,
Green Hornet

 

[ssscientist]

"It's 149.00 pezzutos and is for beginners"

Beginners like me. I've been using midi since midi was cv/gate and I loooooove my Tracktion.

Thanks for giving me another reason to avoid Sweetwater, G.H.!

 

[bewildered]

wow, wasnt expecting so many replies....

thanks for the four tet link, its good to know one of these artists isnt greedy with his producing knowledge.

um, yeah, i wasnt aware that alot of you were software programmers and industry pro's. yeah, i did aquire some pirated software, but thats only to try before i buy. seriously, these programs are half a grand each and im supposed to buy them before even knowing if i like them? thats pretty rediculous. thats like buying a car without ever have looking at it. ive been playing around with cubase sx 3 since it seems to be so popular. i havent gotten the hang of it yet, but it looks to be a pretty sweet program, espcecially since it lets me use absynth as a plugin. native instruments Reaktor i can say honestly is way the fuck too complex, prob better for an audio engineer than the average musician. Reason was just way to limited in its synth's. Now i understand what people mean when they say its a beat maker ( create beat > export to a better program ). theirs still like 6 other popular programs out there, i dont even have to patience to pirate and try. Im just going to read the cubase manual and take it slow, hopefully i can teach myself how to use it.

what i really want to do, is understand the nature of a 3-d sine wave, how to manipulate it, think graphically. ive taken years of music theory and it teaches nothing on the nature of sound, but how a few dead people used harmonic frequencies to ellicit a emotion within the classical frame. What type of class teaches this sort of thing: a full understanding of the sound wave, and every way it can be manipulated, including which tools to do it, plus how to synth a pure sound instead of a cheaply computer generated sound. Is it audio engineering?

when i say im trying to be progressive, think KidA and Amnesiac. Its almost like a psychedelic progressive electronic, if that even is a genre.