Could this be my problem, the interface

[mark1971a]

So it is safe to assume that a line 6 tone port is able to record a mulitrack demo that sounds at least as nice as what I did on the reel. I just have to work out the latency. I cant imagine the DAW needing completely new/seperate mic techniques, cables, preamps, compressors, to reproduce the same quality as before.

If it is just a checked box or slider I have to change I am gonna feel real stupid.

 

[Greg_L]

So it is safe to assume that a line 6 tone port is able to record a mulitrack demo that sounds at least as nice as what I did on the reel. .

Yes I would think so. It's a totally different beast though. It's going to pick up exactly what you feed it, just like any digital interface does. There won't be any "magic" tape saturation or any of the supposed mystical goodnes of an all analog signal chain. It's going to mostly be very clean and precise. Will it stand up to professionally recorded, mixed, mastered analog vinyl stuff from the 70s? Probably not in your eyes. But it will do a multitrack demo at least as nice as what you did on the reel.....if you learn how to use it.

 

[mark1971a]

the gobs of hilarious reverb notwithstanding..

Yes, the Quardareverb is a little thick on the first one. I originally wanted to have reverb at certain points in the take, for effect at a break or at the end only. The tape only has 8 tracks, so I didn't bother bouncing down to add a effects track in separately.

The objective was to come in on a thump thump, then splash on in , to the verse with a crash cymbal that sounded like it was painted with a brush..best I could do right now.

I thought that is how you did the brushy sounding drums? Who knows.

 

[Greg_L]

It's cool, whatever. Good luck to you. I hope you get it worked out.

 

[mark1971a]

Is there ever a time when you would, go to record with high latency over a low latency set up? Is latency generally bad?

Is there a colouration or phase that latency can put on the recording. If it is working, but not in time, that is too much load, correct?

What the heck is ASIO? Do you need it on win 7 64 bit?

Notes to share,

If I change ASIO's I loose all sound. There are a couple ASIO to click and a GS Wavesynth. The toneport asio works best, the wavesynth sound good but no midi...

I found a slider bar for latency in reaper and usb toneports gearbox options. Neither one seems to do anything. They operate independent of each other , but do nothing.

Is it time to contact technical support for line 6?

 

[Steenamaroo]

Thank you for your serious reply. I am a bit frustrated.
I only have so many digitally layed recordings. It has only been a couple weekends with this unit.

No problem. Like Greg said (I think)...Take some time and get used to things before you fall out with anything.
If tape's your gig in the end, fair play.

I guess you have a process with ourboard effects that you're used to.
When your audio hits tape it's been through eqs/comps/verbs....whatever you have.

When the audio hits your computer it's dry.
I hope that's not patronising you at all, but maybe the dry audio is just a shock to your system?

I need to research latency. I read something about asio, but I have no idea.

There will be an option in your daw for 'buffer settings' or 'buffer size'.
It's literally a turn it up/turn it down scenario.

Think of the buffer as how much audio the computer gathers and processes before spitting it out.
It's not a steady stream, as such. It's packets....Like moving dirt in spoonfuls or buckets.
If the buffer equates to one second, you have to wait one second before the first package reaches your ears.

ASIO provides a direct link between your interface and your recording software.
I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be necessary if your interface has it's own drivers, but I could be wrong.

I live in the mac world where you just plug stuff in.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Is there ever a time when you would, go to record with high latency over a low latency set up? Is latency generally bad?
Is there a colouration or phase that latency can put on the recording. If it is working, but not in time, that is too much load, correct?

Buffer settings and latency are really a thing of the past to me, since computers are so powerful these days.
There was a time when the computer would struggle to handle your 40 track mix, so you'd be forced to increase the buffer size.
Great...smooth playback right? So what if you need to overdub the vocals.

You go back, disable some virtual instruments or plugs to free up power, turn down the buffer size, record your part, then put everything back where it was.
Nightmare.

Nowadays I just set it to 64 and work away. There will always be latency if you monitor from the DAW, but with the settings right it wont be noticed.

There is no colouration or anything like that. It's literally just that when you play or sing, you hear yourself slightly late.
It's incredibly off-putting.
A lot of the time I just muted the currently recording track and popped one side of the headphones off.
If necessary I'd just nudge the recorded track back a touch afterwards to compensate, but like I say it's really a thing of the past.

 

[Greg_L]

My computer is an old POS but it's still kicking. I have to deal with latency. I set my interface to it's highest least power hogging latency for mixing, and it's lowest for tracking w/ monitoring. There's also a "mix" control that allows for real time monitoring. For my rig it's only two clicks of the mouse to change latency. No big deal. Lately I've been ignoring it completely. I simply hardly ever live monitor anymore. My music is simple though. I track my drums, bass, and guitars so loud that I don't need to monitor. I just need to hear what I'm playing along to. The room noise is loud enough that I don't need myself in the cans.

 

[miroslav]

mark....

From what you said earlier that everything MIDI seems to be a beat behind....that could a MIDI delay, which isn't the same thing as DAW latency...though if you're say, running a MIDI synth outside of the DAW, and then feeding that into the DAW and controlling if from the DAW....it could be.

At any rate...those things don't speak to the quality of the actual digital conversions....so before you get anti-digital for the wrong reasons, check your setup...it might take awhile to sort it out and it could end up being something basic/silly, but since you're just starting the transition from tape deck to DAW...you have a learning curve to overcome, that's all.

I would suggest you track to your tape deck...then just free-run the deck and do a straight dump to the DAW.
Then if you need additional tracks, you can record them direct to the DAW.....or you can try to sync up the tape and DAW for additional dumps, but that will add to the complexity a bit and require some more equipment.
Without the sync setup....you still have 8 tape tracks, so do your most important tracks to tape, and the direct tracks can be the filler tracks as needed.

I use a similar SOP....tracking to tape, dumping to DAW....I just have a larger format tape deck, and also a full-tilt sync setup...but your have a the equipment for a good start-up hybrid rig. The only thing you need is an 8-channel A/D converter box. You can find some older used one, like the Echo/Layla stuff, or other brands, which won't be that expensive as the newer multi-channel converter boxes. Just make sure the converter/card are compatible with your computer.
If it's an older PCI card, you need that kind of slot in your computer....if it's a newer USB/Firewire kind of box...then make sure you have that covered....not a big deal.

 

[mark1971a]

Please recommend newer a DA converter. Thanks, a hybrid setup might be better. I have nothing against digital recording. The main reason is I love the different arrangements. Editing is fun, not like it was in the past. You can constantly safely play around in digital. It is cool.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Dedicated converters can be expensive.
Any of the motu 828 series will have 8 line inputs IIRC. The mk2 definitely does and it's not too expensive.
Presonus firepod has 6 line ins (and 2 mic preamps), and the echo audiofire range have up to 12 but absolutely no bells and whistles; Not even a master volume control.

Personally, I think it might be a jump too far at this stage. Miroslav's ultimate goal is fine, but you might get more from just getting used to what you have....for now, at least.
That's up to you.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I presume when you record digitally it's just mic -> interface -> computer?

Why not try your old signal path? Your interface has line inputs so you could go mic -> preamp -> effects -> interface if that works better for you.

 

[miroslav]

Personally, I think it might be a jump too far at this stage.

I'm just curious what how the 8-channel deck and the DAW will interface without an 8-channel converter or some kind of sync setup that allows multiple, 2-track dumps....?

There is another way....that is more of a direct-top-DAW tracking SOP, but by way of the tape deck. So you're basically just using the tape deck to pass the audio through it, and there's not formal recording to the deck....
...but I think at the moment, that SOP might be even a bigger jump to make than an 8-channel converter.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what he has in mind at this point....what is his goal....to completely move over to the DAW if he can get the sound he got on the tape deck, or to keep using the tape deck AND the DAW in a hybrid setup...?

 

[mark1971a]

The tape has a mixdown through a rack compressor/processor. Side chain EQ. There is a Aural exciter in the path , but I don't expect anything magic from that relic.

The digital does still have the pre and compression from the inputed chain. It is more direct. Effects and EQ is VST like BBE vst in master section.

The guitars are all Stratocaster to pre and comp to DRRI. All Bass is Fender Jazz recorded comp out of a GK MBE , the bass pre is a meek VC6. Alesis 5 piece synth drums with ez drummer percussion. A couple NT1a mics and a couple x y Sm 58's are about what was used.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I'm just curious what how the 8-channel deck and the DAW will interface without an 8-channel converter or some kind of sync setup that allows multiple, 2-track dumps....?

Yeah, I meant the hybrid setup all together might be a jump too far.
It's up to the OP, and there was nothing wrong with your advice...

 

[miroslav]

mark

Forgetting what instruments you used on what tracks and all the FX equipment....what are you transferring from the 8-channel tape deck to the DAW......just a 2-track mix of the 8-tracks?

 

[Steenamaroo]

I found a slider bar for latency in reaper and usb toneports gearbox options. Neither one seems to do anything. They operate independent of each other , but do nothing.

It wont have any effect on already-recorded material.
You'd have to arm a track and play/sing to hear the effect.

mark

Forgetting what instruments you used on what tracks and all the FX equipment....what are you transferring from the 8-channel tape deck to the DAW......just a 2-track mix of the 8-tracks?

Miro, Maybe I misunderstood.
If he's been dumping from tape already then sorry. I got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[mark1971a]

mark

Forgetting what instruments you used on what tracks and all the FX equipment....what are you transferring from the 8-channel tape deck to the DAW......just a 2-track mix of the 8-tracks?

Yes, to a stereo mix of the 8 tracks, I might have added a midi instrument.

I did not have the toneport before , so the Alesis drums were input to a mixer and place on 2 of the 8 tape tracks. Now that I have reaper the drum software with the alesis kit works completely virtually. The drums are definitely dry as a bone. The tracked drums on tape bounce.

I will retry the latency slider recording an armed track. edit..okay will listen.

 

[mark1971a]

You solved the latency mystery. Thank you. It seems to control the amount of delay the midi signal gets recorded. It can be so delayed the keys take a second to respond. This also brings all midi precussion out of time. Not really changing the sound . That is why I was moving all the midi dots over in snap to.

There is something here-Using the Wavesynth GS and line6 drivers doesn't sound bad. Using the ASio4All driver, might be making the harsh high end. Asio4all is recommended by reaper the DAW program. What should I do? I think it might be defeating the sound card in my lap. Without ASio4all how would you monitor midi instrumentation in reaper?

 

[mark1971a]

Oh no , monitoring is supposed to be done with toneport, not the laptop im guessing. I had the powered bose monitors connected to the 1/8" laptop phone jack to hear with asio4all. That allows me to hear the drums in phones while recording still using the wavesynth and soundcard. Then gearbox line 6 software must remain open in background....or does it?

I would rather not use anything line 6 right now, and upgrading to a better DA is not out of the question.