Could this be my problem, the interface

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark1971a
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mark1971a said:
To say use your ears, would be absolutely moronic. Same with you can do anything, obviously not.
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Mmmmmmm.....not really.
I think you were letting the images in the DAW 'scope plug bias your opinion.

If you just listen to the sound...and think about what is different, without making assumptions about the digital aspect....you may be able to discern what you need to do to make it sound like you want it to be.

I mean...to just do a bunch of stuff on a tape deck, then mix it down and drop it into the DAW and then say you can't make it sound the same....well, you have to unravel each step of your analog process and try to mimic it in the DAW.
The files you posted of the tape and DAW tracks...there were some major differences (like the tape having a ton of processing/reverb that the DAW tracks didn't have)...so I'm not sure how you think you could tell the more subtle differences/issues with so much obvious differences between them already....?

Like I said....do one track to tape however you like....then record it again to DAW and work with it to make it sound like you want, and similar to the tape track. That will prove to be a valubale learning curve process, and then step up to more involved tracks/mixes.....
....just sayin'.....
 
This is not an analog vs. digital argument. This is a problem recording the input signal on my laptop.

The presets and accompaniment samples sound good together, but I am using this to act like a classic suitcase recording deal to make a demo with me playing the instruments.

The DAW recorded signal is very sawtoothy, if you look at the tape stuff you can see smooth sine formations. There are no sine formation post DAW at all. It is not recording the input in a correct manner. I cannot show a true A to B comparison because you have to run it through the interface to make a clip, and the tape signal takes a hit doing so.
 
Here are 2 more clips to get the point across. Please visualize with window media player on o scope or similar. If youre not here, this is the only way to illustrate.

1st a guitar direct DAW with nothing average -8db . Not even a hint of sine wave , albeit a guitar signal. dead.
View attachment mag1nmvv.mp3


2nd a midi keyboard . This is already in a vst for the DAW. I am not trying to bring my sounds in, these are their's. Very smooth good looking signal that sines out.

View attachment a1.mp3

Here is a one note signal , in there DAW vst midi and it is super clear , sines like a dream..

View attachment siga1.mp3

If I plug in my keyboard as a 1/4" input it doesn't look like that , or sound like that. Conversely the guitar plugged into the 8 track sines out beautiful.
 
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mark1971a said:
Here are 2 more clips to get the point across. Please visualize with window media player on o scope or similar. If youre not here, this is the only way to illustrate.

1st a guitar direct with nothing average -8db . Not even a hint of sine wave , albeit a guitar signal.
View attachment 81510


2nd a midi keyboard . This is already in a vst for the DAW. I am not trying to bring my sounds in, these are their's. Very smooth good looking signal that sines out.

View attachment 81509

Here is a one note signal , in there vst midi and it is super clear , sines like a dream..

View attachment 81511

If I plug in my keyboard as a 1/4 input it doesn't look like that , or sound like that.
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I listened to each MP3, the guitar sounded fine. Now, I did look at the "scope", but others have stated, we are not looking at the wave, we are hearing sounds and it sounded fine to me. Maybe it isn't full like you want it or something, but it sounded probably like it received it. The DAW synth has already had bass, mid, etc. added to it before it become a sample sound. That is what they do with sample sounds, they make them sound their best and then output that as a sample.

Your guitar recording sounded just fine (as a raw input). So, once you have that in your DAW, then it is time to EQ and add some things. If you want it to sound different, put some effects in between the guitar output and the interface inputs like you do an amp.

I think you are letting yourself become convinced of something based on a visual plug in and not just what you are hearing.
 
Oh yeah, but convinced because it cant record it. And, I have the RTA physical equipment to analyse it.

I tried to record video on my phone, or capture a wave in picture but it is difficult. So I drew it.

CAM00314.webp

CAM00315.webp

You know what a o scope represents, right?
 
Whats this as a raw input? No it doesn't (please tell me youre testing me for some weird reason). Will it sine out and fill out sonicly with something I don't know about yet? I think if that existed it would be on page one of the manual.
 
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Back to the motu 828, what is D/A A/D converter and why would you need one to be titled both ways? Is the line 6 a DA and a AD?
 
Look at johnwatkins thread preamp comparison recording. It makes me want to cry right now.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...iques/mic-preamp-worth-360718/15/#post4089244

Those are huge smooth sign waves in the signal.

I can make a great signal on the 8 trk, rich as that, with huge sines waves, but how do I get it into the DAW?

Back in the 80's it was a pain getting the midi in with the analog. Now it is the opposite everything is midi/digital and Im locked out.
 
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mark1971a said:
Back to the motu 828, what is D/A A/D converter and why would you need one to be titled both ways? Is the line 6 a DA and a AD?
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Digital to Analog Analog to Digital. If you have inputs and outputs they have to be both ways.

I will be honest, it has been years (I should say decades) since I've used an O'scope and I have never measured the signals coming out. I really don't care. I either get a good sound or I don't. The wave is totally useless to me in that regards.

Digital sound Look down the page under Digital Sound. Does this look like what you drew?
 
I would think that something is wrong if every mic signal going in looses is sine wave form. Every VST and midi instrument in the DAW makes a nice sinewave.

Thanks to johnwatkins isolated clip I know that it is not normal in digital .
 
Yes. If I input the keyboard 1/4 in the sine wave goes stepped and looses all live quality.

But you guys are telling me , the guitar just needs eq . It needs WAY more than that. It lost its whole waveform going to digital. Now the line 6 box has some vst to go direct. This is an improvement on the guitar daw sound.

You would loose everything mic'ed as that is all analog signal. Then try to mold it into something digitally without using anything of a classic waveform. In turn the Toneport becomes a kids toy, or a dance remixer, instantly. There is hope, I know from the Watkins clip digital has captured the waveform accurately.

I am currently under the impression that my toneport is installed correctly and ready to accept a signal.
 
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I want to confirm that Im not diss-ing digital recording. There is so much potential, and there is nowhere else to go, but digital.

I was trying to start a project, and found a limitation. No big deal.
 
That is okay. You got to take the plunge at some point.

I want to contact mister Watkins and find out exactly how he got that neuman into the DAW and retain the soundwave form.

This is also why nothing in my reaper can be mixed. Its all recorded as sawtoothy signal , short clattery tones.

I want to try and record a measure or 2 , using all vst's. Have nothing real, and see how it all gels together. I bet it works awesome.
 
Are you being sincere? I cant tell. If Im coming off as unintelligent, please enlighten me.

Look, if I bring the input to the tomeport and it cant accuretly reproduce the signal, that is what, my ears fault. No, Im at some hardware limitation. You hear it is lifeless in the clips , more so than the tape clips. Again there is no true way to A to B there. If I make the clip, the reaper makes it a cut up movie.

Anybody who has a tape unit and a DAW must know exactly what I have been stating from the beginning. I didn't get it cornered until I busted out the hardware and imaged the tracks. Don't need good ears to hear either.
 
I just think you're way, way over analyzing and stressing over nothing. You really are shooting yourself in the foot. I respect trying to understand what's going on and why, and I respect experimentation, but you haven't even recorded anything yet. You're fretting over VSTs and drum machines and sine waves and as far as I can tell you haven't stuck a mic on anything yet. You're hating your equipment before you've even really used it.

Try this - put a mic on an amp and record it. See how that goes.
 
Fist page 4 clips from 4 different songs. 2 of which are done on the DAW reaper, mic in. With at least 6-8 tracks. Nothing can be done with the jagged input signal. You wanted some reverb on it to compare, but it doesn't matter, it is a chopped up movie.

The other 2 song clips are from the 8 track mixed down as a 2 ch stereo DAW track. Those are infintelty clearer, but become stepped after being input to the Toneport.
 
Im frustrated enough to hire somebody as a consultant. Know anybody in Chicago PM me.


I will pay you for your knowledge.
 
mark1971a said:
Oh yeah, but convinced because it cant record it. And, I have the RTA physical equipment to analyse it.

I tried to record video on my phone, or capture a wave in picture but it is difficult. So I drew it.

View attachment 81512

View attachment 81513

You know what a o scope represents, right?
Click to expand...

The small "jagged" waveforms are high frequencies and the the wide smooth ones are low frequencies. Although the waveform does suggest a bright sound, the sound tells you that on its own.

If it's a guitar with a passive pickup then the tone may be suffering from an input that doesn't have a sufficiently high impedance, a trait which generally causes an overly bright tone with little low frequency content. That seems surprising for a guitar oriented interface and I couldn't find any technical specifications with the input impedance so I could be off base. Nonetheless that's how your guitar sounds through that gear.

Another possibility is that you're used to the loss of highs that might be caused by some imperfection in the tape recording process that's no longer occurring when you record on the digital system and you're compensating with a high boost somewhere in the system. It may be something habitual and automatic that you're not even aware you're doing.

Perhaps try cutting some highs with a shelf or low pass filter.
 
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