convertors or monitors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tonio
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Tonio

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Sorry if this has been discussed allready.
Trying to decide where my set up is lacking........

OK, got some dough and I'm getting the (gear)itch. My initial though was that the monitors are the most important, but then the whole chain is important, no? Been eyeing the Mytek stereoAD96 or the DAC-1. I would go for a RME FF800, but the wallet isn't that full. As a full A/D/A I have been considering the Onyx 400f. But some reviews have been shall I say, not making me feel comfortable. The problem is I haven't really demoed it at all. I could use the pre's, since they have good reviews.

I feel the need to upgrade at least 2 channels of AD or DA, but I could use some better monitors. I have gotten accustomed to them to get decent demo grade mixes. The room is treated , and am happy with the aural aspects. Not too damp and not too wacked out.

Appreciate any opinions !!

My setup:
MOTU 1224, 2408mkii, Event PS8's, Soundcraft SX, Grace 101, many dynamics and 414, C3000, Sm81x2, GT44, TR40.
Mostly ITB doing small ensemble stuff, jazz, latin, pop, funk, some rock. Don't really have much clientele per se, mostly my own work, and small projects.
 
Tonio said:
My initial though was that the monitors are the most important, but then the whole chain is important, no?
Click to expand...

Hi Tonio
If you're used to mixing on the monitors you are currently using and can get a decent mix out of them, then maybe hold off upgrading the monitors in favour of getting good converters. I have a couple of musician mates who do their mixes using pretty high spec headphones, if that's any indication of the monitoring stage not being as critical.
If the A/D converters you currently have aren't doing the job, then it might be a good idea to upgrade them first.
If you can get your recordings into the computer as cleanly as possible, that's half the battle of getting a good sounding mix out of the way (kind of).

I should add, though, that you should check your mix on several different speaker systems (car, hi fi, boom box) just to make sure that you have a good 'transportable' mix, especially if you do use just headphones. Good monitors are designed to present the music as accurately as possible, but you can get a fairly decent mix by comparing the mix through various speaker systems and tweaking the sound as necessary.

Dags
 
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I think dealing with room acoustics, and making SURE that your monitoring chain will yield you much better audio than converter upgrades will. The MOTU converters are decent, and I have heard outstanding work done on them.

Unless you are looking to record for a living, save your cash for mics! Even if you are going to try to do it for a living, you will benefit more from a great variety of mics than a converter upgrade.

I have never heard the Event PS8's, but I have 20/20 passives with a Hafler P3000 power amp, with all Monster Studio Pro 1000 cabling in my monitor path. I am happy with this. In good rooms, these monitors are deadly accurate and easy to work on. I have worked on this SOLID monitoring system for 8 years now, and I think they do the job well. As I recall,t he PS8's are a sort of "budget" version of the 20/20's. I suspect that they possibly just don't handle audio as well. BUT, they might work just fine! Hard to say. It appears that the amp is fairly anemic for my tastes (I like to run at least 200% power to the speakers if I can to create as much headroom as possible! This is prudent for a few reasons, but I won't go into that here...). So, maybe you can improve your monitoring some.

If you are happy with your room, and think that you indeed have it balanced fairly well, and you can live with your monitors, I think great mics would be your next best purchase. Looking at your mic selection, you have some great workhorse mics in the SM 81's and the 414, and the GT44 does okay. The C3000 isn't what I would call a great mic, but some people like them. I think they sound sizzly in the top end and mushy in the low end.

Get some more good mics. For the more "organic" type of music you are doing, you will LOVE the variety of sounds you could achieve by adding to the few good mics you already have. Truely, I think more "good" mics will improve your productions more than upgrading your converters.

After you are happy with everything else, and you feel it is time to step up the converters, THEN upgrade. But really, the MOTU's should serve you well enough for now.
 
Dags, Ford Van, thanks for your thoughts.

1st off I do believe I am getting the best tracks into the puter. Mixing is a battle, but more about the smear, definition that is lacking. Maybe its about the multiple tracks buiding up creating mud. I check the mixes with different speakers, car stereo etc. But the detail is missing.
Mics, well, I do have a variety of dynamics, which is great to find the "sound" that I'm looking for. Beyer 201, Senn 421, e609, SM57, EV408, Audix D2. I can get many tonal changes with the dynamics and the Grace, by strategic mic placements. As another tonal change , my SX(mixer) does give some more options. As far as condensors, I guess I'm happy with what I have. Neutral(SM81's) to alittle on the bright side AKG's. The GT 44 is great addition. C3000 is a an old 1st LD condensor, that I really don't use much, but can be of use on certain tracks. May all that I can think of is for vox, but don't really do much of that.
Maybe its more about the mix? What could help DA? Monitors?
Looking for something that will take it a step up.

T
 
This is a tough question. I always agree that getting more mics is never a bad thing. In this case, it sounds like you do already have a nice variety, and that something else may be in order. Converters are often overlooked by people. The MOTU converters certainly aren't bad, and are plenty capable of doing good work. Comparing converters is very tough. They all sound a little different, but as noticable as a person might think when just comparing one or two tracks, or a two track mix. However, when you start layering up a bunch of tracks, it does make a pretty huge difference. I can actually feel the difference more than just hearing it when I use better converters. Basically, while mixing I find myself making completely different mix decisions and approaching the mix in different ways when using nice converters. Almost like all I have to worry about is details instead of figuring out how to make things sit in a mix. Preamps are kind of the same to me as well. The real differences don't seem to big until you start assembling your mix. If you are completely happy with your monitors, than I think converters would be an excellent decision.

However, in this case it sounds to me like you may not be completely happy with your monitors. When you get the right set of monitors, you will know it almost instantly. If you are wondering if you need new monitors, than you probably do. But then room acoustics also factors in. If your room is wrong, than you aren't getting the full quality possible out of your monitors anyhow, and that should be the problem addressed first.

Given what you have posted so far in this thread, my personal opinion is that monitors should be in order first (or room treatment, but as of yet I have no knowledge as to how your room is). After that, you may find that adding a new preamp may make a big difference. After that, you will probably be back to either mics, or to converters once again. Good Luck:)
 
So your thinking monitors? Can't fix what ya can't hear I suppose. The Events have been good. I cross reference with Klipsh Heresey's are killer mids(horn) and HF, along with the usual car, boom box etc.
But the PS8's have a weird(smeared) mid range, nothing drastic but something odd about it. The low end is somewhat hyped. I do have a drop @ 180hz in the room that needs some more attention.
I always had considered the BM6a's. Just alittle out of my reach, hows about the BM6(P) and amp? Not sure if using 6" woofs(BM5A) would be good enough. I could go for the Event ASP8's though I do have a taste of Event's allready. I'll see about setting up a listening session @ the local store.

Thanks xstatic.
 
The Dynaudio's put out a surprising amount of low end for a 6 inchish driver. Personally, I am very biased towards Dynaudio though, so consider that. I loved my BM6's, but then moved up to BM15's due to my control room size and desired coverage area. You may even want to consider the BM5a's depending on the size of your control room. The integrated amps on the Dynaudio's are actually pretty good, but I personally still like passive monitors.

I would fix the room first, and then reasses your monitoring needs.
 
Tonio,
See if you can take your monitors with you when you go listening to some others, and can A/B them for comparison with yours. If you've never had the opportunity to compare your monitors with others, even when you bought them, I would highly recommend this over a converter upgrade. With the converters you have, a converter upgrade is going to be a small change. Finding the monitors that really fit you is much more exciting and rewarding.

Cheers,
RD
 
yeah, those BM5A's been geting some good reviews. Maybe a tighter low end is what I'm looking for. The CR is 11x17 so somewhat small. Getting some more bass traps should help out also. I've been tweeking with the rear wall bass trap. I've changed it a few times using different thickness ply, to slot type, to just cloth covered.But I think its more about the distance from the front wall.

Robert, good pointer about taking my monitors to A/B them!!
 
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