Converting a light bulb socket into a grounded outlet?

  • Thread starter Thread starter pdadda
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electro-fun

You guyz are a trip!

I'd like to hear you dicuss 3-phase wye and delta configurations as they relate to inductive AC motor windings.

Let the buzz begin! LOL :p


PS. I mean no offense, just found this thread to be very entertaining.
 
30 tmes a second, hot is -, neutral/ground is +.
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Isn't that the same thing as.......neutral/ground is HOT 30 times a second? If not, then what is the difference between HOT and +?
However, what kills you is the current across your body, not the voltage polarity.
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This STILL doesn't answer my question frederic :p

Does the current change DIRECTION when it ALTERNATES? IF not, then what do they MEAN by ALTERNATING CURRENT? The way you explain it frederic, the VOLTAGE alternates in "polarity", not current, which really confuses me. I hate ambiguity. :confused:
fitZ
 
Ac

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Alternating current can be seen on an ossciliscope as a SIN wave. It changes Polarity over time. Each phase contains a rise and fall in voltage AND polarity; as the voltage climbs torward its peak voltage (PV) it is said to be positive (+), when it falls to its opposite PV it is said to be negitive (-). The peak-to-peak (PP) voltage is the sum of both peaks and the RMS voltage (root mean squared) is the "average" of the rise and fall, (what a meter reads). At home AC cycles at 60hz. 60 cycles/sec. at 115-120VAC. Also the current (I) is the elecrical pressure the "pushes" the voltage through a conductor, as current is in relation to voltage (V=IR or I=V/R) as voltage changes so does current.

-hope this helps

PS. visit your public library
 
Thanks. That tells me HOT is both positive and negative. So is Neutral. Now,
WHO can tell me what the CURRENT does, when the voltage polarity alternates?
fitZ
 
Rick,

I did actually, reread what I wrote. The ambiguity in your head is based on my assumption you're an electrician, so my apologies.

Current is the flow of electrons, measured in amperes.
Voltage is the "push" behind the electrons, measured in volts.

When the polarity is one way, the current flows one way.
When the polarity reverses, the current flows the other way.

This happens 60 times a second. Back and forth, back and forth.

But this is irrelevent to my earlier point. What i'm talking about is voltage potential (deltas)

Earth is always considered the point of reference, or zero volts (AC or DC). Every voltage on every wire is measured as compared to earth. This is why standing on the earth you always have a voltage potential of zero.

Go down in your basement and stand on the floor, looking at your breaker box. Your breaker box is grounded, to the earth. Your neutral line is also grounded, to the earth. You are standing on the earth, therefore also grounded. You, neutral, ground and earth, share the same voltage potential at all times in this scenario. This is why standing on the earth doesn't fry you even though we have millions of volts and amps wandering through wires all over the earth.

Now if you were to reach forward and touch hot, electrons will flow back and forth, 60 times a second, between hot, and neutral/ground/earth, through your body. You've completed the circuit with your flesh. Your finger that touched hot, has the voltage potential of hot, and your bare feet on the wet floor, have the voltage potential of neutral/earth/ground, and all the flesh in between acts like a large soggy resistor.

Doesn't matter which way the current flows, or if it flows back and forth, you're still going to experience current flow, which your body will not like.

Does that help clear things up?

Now the reverse is true...

Instead of standing on the earth with a voltage potential of zero, you're now standing on a rubber pad, and touching hot. Your body now has a voltage potential of 120VAC, matching hot. You and hot are the same now. But because you're on the rubber pad, you're not completing the circuit.

But your body still has a 120VAC voltage potential as compared to ground/neutral/earth. Just don't touch earth at this point.
 
Hot Hot Hot

White- nuetral

Black- hot

Green/ bare Copper- ground

http://www.electrical-online.com/howtoarticles/Grounding.htm

"There are some significant differences between the neutral wire and the ground wire. The neutral, or white wire, is responsible for transporting electricity back to a power source after it has passed through a load, or the device using the electricity (such as a light, fridge, stove, etc.). The ground, or copper or green wire, protects the system through the means identified above."
 
Oops!

thane1200 said:
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Alternating current can be seen on an ossciliscope as a SIN wave. It changes Polarity over time. Each phase contains a rise and fall in voltage AND polarity; as the voltage climbs torward its peak voltage (PV) it is said to be positive (+), when it falls to its opposite PV it is said to be negitive (-). The peak-to-peak (PP) voltage is the sum of both peaks and the RMS voltage (root mean squared) is the "average" of the rise and fall, (what a meter reads). At home AC cycles at 60hz. 60 cycles/sec. at 115-120VAC. Also the current (I) is the elecrical pressure the "pushes" the voltage through a conductor, as current is in relation to voltage (V=IR or I=V/R) as voltage changes so does current.

-hope this helps

PS. visit your public library
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OOPS! I typed that wrong. Voltage (V) "pushes" Current (I). Sorry.
 
Right Thane, except I'd like to add that the 117-120VAC is really RMS voltage, or averaged voltage. Technically, it peaks much higher, somewhere around 180V I believe.

Kinda like speakers... you have the RMS rating of say, 100 watts, but peak is much higher, say, 200W.

Maybe I shouldn't have said this, I'm making this more complicated.
 
thane1200 said:
"There are some significant differences between the neutral wire and the ground wire. The neutral, or white wire, is responsible for transporting electricity back to a power source after it has passed through a load, or the device using the electricity (such as a light, fridge, stove, etc.). The ground, or copper or green wire, protects the system through the means identified above."
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Yes, but in single phase AC like most homes, neutral is ground is earth is you (or I) standing on the basement floor staring at the breaker box.

I *am * trying to keep this simple, i swear!
 
frederic, excuse my use of "ambiguity". It was not directed at you :o As usual, my lack of understanding a concept leads to ambiguity in MY head.


As to this subject, no need to carry it on any further. I simply went back and read Steves reply from 2 years ago. 'Nuff said. Thanks.

Thanks for the info guys.

fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
frederic, excuse my use of "ambiguity". It was not directed at you :o As usual, my lack of understanding a concept leads to ambiguity in MY head.
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No problem, I was trying to help you eliminate that ambiguity. I also take part responsibility because on certain subjects, I tend to not keep in mind not everyone is/was an electrician. my bad.


RICK FITZPATRICK said:
As to this subject, no need to carry it on any further. I simply went back and read Steves reply from 2 years ago. 'Nuff said. Thanks.
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You're welcome, but how about posting a link to that post? I'd like to read it myself, if that's easy for you to do.

Thanks!
 
Back on the topic of the thread, if you need 15 amps for rehearsal, most likely all the band members are deaf :eek:
 
mshilarious said:
Back on the topic of the thread, if you need 15 amps for rehearsal, most likely all the band members are deaf :eek:
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Thanks mshliarious. That's what I wanted to know.
 
I've rehearsed with a 5-piece hard rock (not quite metal, been a few years) using two Yamaha 450 watts per side power amps (turned on one at a time, because they dimmed the lights at turn-on) including a 200 watt bass amp, fender twin, peavey SPecial 130, 8 75 watt floods, 16 channel board, rack full of processors, etc, on a circuit that will POP if I run a 1500 watt heater on it and turn on a light - did this for several YEARS and the only time a breaker popped is when somebody turned on the heater WHILE we were playing...

The discussion about neutral vs. ground is why the NEC refers to CURRENT CARRYING, NEUTRAL wires as groundED conductors but refers to NON-CURRENT-CARRYING, (ground) wires as groundING conductors.

If you're not an electrician, not a "handyman", and not flush enough to hire either, the safest way is don't do it at all - the SECOND safest way -
buy a screw-in adapter,
buy a 3-2 adapter with the little green wire on it,
buy one of those $12 outlet testers (Home Depot, they have LED's on them that light up green if things are wired correctly, even comes with instructions on the package) -
Turn off the light with the pull-cord
(answer to the other question is "Duh, FLASHLIGHT")
screw in the adapter,
plug in the 3-2 adapter,
hook the green wire to one of the screws that holds the cover on the light fixture,
Turn the light fixture back on, plug the TESTER into the 3-2 adapter, and look for a GREEN light.
IF you see it, you're DONE. Unplug the tester, get at least a 14 gauge extension cord, and run it to a power strip for your gear; now, start annoying your other neighbors who are trying to get some strange nookie in the unit next door without their wife/husband finding out... Steve
 
knightfly said:
extension cord, and run it to a power strip for your gear; now, start annoying your other neighbors who are trying to get some strange nookie in the unit next door without their wife/husband finding out... Steve
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And don't let the extension cord rest on the light bulb :)
 
Damn, Frederic, what a party-pooper; I was gonna let 'im find out about that part on his own...
 
Thanks for the advice knightfly. I think I'll try that out this weekend. If you don't see any more posts from me by Monday, its because I died trying to hook this up.
 
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