My reel to reel experience. Back to digital.

rob aylestone

Moderator
I think I’m old enough now to be able to listen to things and make, in the main, accurate judgements on audio quality. My purchase of a Tascam 4 track and a Revox 2 track has proven to have been a waste of money.

it was great seeing the tape move, and real meters flick, but my conclusion after a few months is that while lovely to have, in every way, both via my ears and my eyes, they’re inferior to all the digital equipment I have. The worst case is when you record tones doing the lineup and can detect the minute ‘warbling’ tape has as tiny speed errors and drop outs happen. At 15ips, they’re small, but even when I’m using brand new tape, like a tiny intonation problem on a 12 string, it’s there. My modern test gear shows the tiny flutter components, even when my ears aren’t sure, and the hiss is always there, but of course very low. What really made this certain is when I tested the cheap Chinese preamps. I grabbed an elderly Panasonic Laptop, the cheap interface and discovered it sounded better than the Tascam and Revox. Even worse, the Tascam now needs a light bulb fixing and the Revox constantly needs the heads cleaning to retain the HF.

So both are mothballed. I’ll hang on to them, but I cannot record on them. If I record on either of the two main computers in the studio, if the record light comes on, the recording is fine. The only real risk is kicking the power cable out of the external drive, as it’s currently on the floor, or forgetting to save. Entirely my fault, not the kit. With the reel to reels I need to check the quiet section to make sure it’s noise free, something you never have to do with digital. The worst feature though is simply running costs. A 32gb SD card costs very little, and works for ever. A spool of tape costs £70 to put on the shelf. This is unsustainable. I can buy a cheap hard drive and backup, but as I run NAS drives now between my two studios, storage is effectively a tiny cost, and always backed up.

I could record on the Tascam or record on a Zoom H6. Both need just plugs shoving in holes. Two recorders, which sounds best for noise, distortion and transparency? Easy. The Zoom, every time. I’m off on a job today, and the music is on an SD card, which will go into a laptop or a dedicated media player, or even the mixer with an adaptor. Should I put a reel to reel into the chain? Would it improve quality? No absolutely not.

nothing I have recorded since having them has been better than what I had without them. Nothing! At first, I thought I could hear something special, something older and nice, but with eyes open, it was noise, distortion, wow and flutter.

it’s a done deal now. Two really nice mechanical machines that have absolutely no quality increasing potential at all, eat expensive tape, and need constant time consuming cleaning and maintenance. I predict that in six months time, they wont have been used at all, apart maybe, from impressing a few people who might be under 25 and dribble.
 
Well, maybe a sad or enlightening experience. At least you’ve achieved some resolution.
 
I think I’m old enough now to be able to listen to things and make, in the main, accurate judgements on audio quality. My purchase of a Tascam 4 track and a Revox 2 track has proven to have been a waste of money.

So both are mothballed. I’ll hang on to them, but I cannot record on them. If I record on either of the two main computers in the studio, if the record light comes on, the recording is fine. r. Should I put a reel to reel into the chain? Would it improve quality? No absolutely not.

nothing I have recorded since having them has been better than what I had without them. Nothing! At first, I thought I could hear something special, something older and nice, but with eyes open, it was noise, distortion, wow and flutter.

it’s a done deal now. Two really nice mechanical machines that have absolutely no quality increasing potential at all, eat expensive tape, and need constant time consuming cleaning and maintenance. I predict that in six months time, they wont have been used at all, apart maybe, from impressing a few people who might be under 25 and dribble.
Well I went there over 15 years ago - the ease of use was the main driver - now it's the ability to use plugins and be able to drop in any place I want rules - as for the Older tape machines - why keep them? - Im sure there are plenty of people who would love to tinker and like tape enough to put up with the foibles.
 
I've heard guys say how much they like recording on tape because of how easy it is and how it increases their work flow. They say working with a DAW is too complex and stifles creativity, working to a click sounds too mechanical, causes musicians to get lazy because they can copy and paste and edit audio too easily.

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion but those comments sound ridiculous to me. I used cassette, reel 2 reel and even ADAT for many years and I can say that going to DAW was a HUGE improvement in ease, inspiration and sound quality over what I did in the past. With DAW recording can be as simple as you need it to be. You can record basic tracks very simply and without all the bells and whistles if desired without all of the issues related to tape, tape machines and related gear. I sold off almost all of my analog gear about 15 years ago and I have never missed any of it.
 
Because we are old farts the tape machines hold a place in our hearts...but have no place in any serious recording studio these days except for nostalgia's sake.

I am on hold working with the "Almost Beatles" dudes but as Brett put it to me, "I'm in the band" whenever I want to come back and I hope that happens sooner than later. Very cool project.

When I jam with them we do it in his very cool living room and there sits the Nagra tape machine he owns ......for inspiration only.
He's a pro movie editor who works in the industry here in La La land. His recording are all digital and top shelf. But that damn Nagra tape machine is so cool and inspirational sitting there knowing the Beatles sat in a room just like us pressing that record button to lay down the inspiration for our project 50 years later.

 
nothing I have recorded since having them has been better than what I had without them. Nothing! At first, I thought I could hear something special, something older and nice, but with eyes open, it was noise, distortion, wow and flutter.

Rob, that's called MOJO!!!! Obviously you don't get it! BTW, I recently read that you don't get that real tape goodness until you hit about +18dB on the meters. Maybe you just aren't doing it right. 😜


Will this be a future episode for S L & V?
 
I started with a Tascam 38 1/2-inch with two DX-4D dbx units. I recall doing a lot of punching in, which wasn't too difficult, but I was doing zero editing. Since moving to my DAW, punching in and editing is quick and easy. . almost fun at times. Cutting and splicing in a DAW in a few seconds or minutes makes for good workflow.
 
it was great seeing the tape move, and real meters flick, but my conclusion after a few months is that while lovely to have, in every way, both via my ears and my eyes, they’re inferior to all the digital equipment I have. The worst case is when you record tones doing the lineup and can detect the minute ‘warbling’ tape has as tiny speed errors and drop outs happen. At 15ips, they’re small, but even when I’m using brand new tape, like a tiny intonation problem on a 12 string, it’s there. My modern test gear shows the tiny flutter components, even when my ears aren’t sure, and the hiss is always there, but of course very low.

Either you are extremely sensitive to speed issues or the Revox has a problem. One of my first impressions when I first bought my Revox was just how solid everything sounded with no dropouts. Do you hear these issues on commercially produced records from the 60s to the 80s? The Revox should certainly be capable of equalling the performance of a professional mastering machine if it is working to spec. I'd agree that it can't match digital but there was one time when I needed to do a DAT copy but I only had one DAT recorder. I copied everything to the Revox and then back to DAT and no-one has ever commented - despite that particular release selling at least a few hundred copies.
 
The epiphany for my was it's all just storage. The mojo is in the approach. It's all in the front end.
 
Either you are extremely sensitive to speed issues or the Revox has a problem. One of my first impressions when I first bought my Revox was just how solid everything sounded with no dropouts. Do you hear these issues on commercially produced records from the 60s to the 80s? The Revox should certainly be capable of equalling the performance of a professional mastering machine if it is working to spec. I'd agree that it can't match digital but there was one time when I needed to do a DAT copy but I only had one DAT recorder. I copied everything to the Revox and then back to DAT and no-one has ever commented - despite that particular release selling at least a few hundred copies.
I have found that certain instruments, and styles of music make me more sensitive to wow and flutter. Piano, especially anything slow is the first culprit. If it's really fast changing stuff, and there's natural vibrato, then it's all hidden.
 
The epiphany for my was it's all just storage. The mojo is in the approach. It's all in the front end.

Right. Summing has nothing to do with any of it.
 
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One point in favour of tape is that it is difficult to accidentally delete the whole recording. You'd have to set about doing it.
Hard disks and SSD can suddenly die a death. One slip of the finger, and AAAAARGH - I didn't mean to do that.
I could never afford a fancy tape deck when they were in fashion.
 
Tape got it I think. I am an old fart. Long ago I sold a guitar. Regretted it ever since so I’m a hoarder now. Having them is enough. Using them optional!
 
Because there are still a substantial number of people that were born in, grew up through, and started recording in the tape era, there will be aficionados of tape until we all die off. The same thing may happen when the electric car supercedes the petrol one.
I think the reasons people have for eschewing analogue tape recording are valid and should continue to be aired. And I think the reasons for keeping with analogue tape recording are valid and should continue to be aired. Neither is a threat to the other.
 
I’ve got a huge pile of theatre modern LEDs that have failed over the past ten years and older lights going back to the 70s. I spotted my son doing a sort of inventory of my gear the other day. He told me when I pressed him that his mum had asked him to try to make a list of what will need junking and what needs selling when when I die! Damn cheek. He had a huge list of junk and a much smaller one of sell!
 
Slightly veering OT, but one of my favorite new bands, Death Valley Girls, I believe recorded their most recent album on 2" 24-track. The lead guitarist is a Gen-Xer from the OG Seattle scene, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the band are a lot younger.

Some of it I'm sure is the comfort/nostalgia aspect. I find the small amount of tape hiss comforting in some way. That said, I was a gear nut, and spent so much time tracking down and troubleshooting and/or wielding a soldering iron in anger, that my body of work is, well, pathetically small.
 
Some of it I'm sure is the comfort/nostalgia aspect. I find the small amount of tape hiss comforting in some way. That said, I was a gear nut, and spent so much time tracking down and troubleshooting and/or wielding a soldering iron in anger, that my body of work is, well, pathetically small.
One man's comfort is another man's irritation! I'm so glad that I don't have to worry about combining tracks and having the hiss increase.
 
Well … no surprise that most people like digital better. It’s cheap and convenient and one does not have to deal with the concerns you noted above. It is somewhat dismaying to see another “tape sucks” thread in this forum though.

However, a Revox and 4-track cassette deck are not Ampex or Scully decks (not that I have an issue with those machines). And all decks today require a competent tech (rare enough) to go over them meticulously to even get within the ballpark of specs.

But some people *like* wow & flutter. Some people like the “flaws” and human element of the hardships and hassle that go into something like full analog bounces and edits. It comes out in the recordings.

A clean digital recording (or worse, one w/ fake “analog” effects laying on top like frosting) is generally quite boring sounding to me. And there’s *so much* of it out there today.

Aside from that- replace the analog vs digital elements in your post above with tube guitar amps vs solid state (or vinyl vs streaming) … then you might begin to understand why some still prefer analog.
 
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