Comaprisons!!!The three top dogs!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter PRiZ
  • Start date Start date
The reason I think like this is everyone I've talked to in the past all say the same thing, if you get cheap equipment your just gonna want better in a month and your gonna end up wasting much more money...
Click to expand...
this is going to be the LAST time i tell you this priz. listen...just because you buy an expensive piece of gear does not make it good. it does not have a good sound unless YOU make it come through. do you understand that? you can pay 1,000,000 for a piece of gear and guess what? 1 month later a new piece of gear will come out with better specs for a better price. wake up



czar
 
ALRIGHT!

Has anyone used the RME DIGI968 series cards...?

Hey tubedude!!!
I really couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not...?
but finally realized you were...and I'm the guy that makes fun of people for having to say when their being scarcastic..

To doelmite I hadn't got to your post on the Microphone board untill now, and I can see why you came at me the way you did now...(makes more sense) sorry for being an ass :)

All of you have been extremely helpfull. I'm way out of place to even think about talking back, or doughting what each of you say.
I'd probably be yelling at myself if I was any of you...

I'm usually not such an idiot when it comes to purchasing things, but for some reason music is just so critical and important to me, it's not just music, but how I release and express, and I wanna take that to the fullest...

Thanks! if I still need alot of help I'll try not to be as difficult as I have been... :)
 
Last edited:
123

Ummm, what exactly was I being sarcastic about? Please inform me, cause you might have me wrong...
I agree with everyone else on the try it 1st idea, BUT... if you truly think you will be doing this hardcore 2 years from now, I would go ahead and get the Lucid, contrary to everyone elses opinion. Heres why.. someone just found the Lucid for $660, wasn't it? You found that other card for like $159? Thats $819, right around what I told you, and you were talking about spending more than that for lesser quality. THATS why I would go that route if I were you, less money, MORE quality. If you were gonna spend $400, total, then maybe the $800 setup is NOT for you. Depends on what you will really need. I still think you can find the Lucid for $100 cheaper if you try REAL hard.
Thing is, everyone is trying to help you out. Them in thier way, mine in my own way. But I would be (and AM) somewhat upset that I wasn't lead to the better stuff when I bought the stuff I have now. If someone would have made my very argument, I would probably very happy right now. In fact, I KNOW I would.
Only if it were me, Id buy the Delta 1010 for the inputs and decent quality converters (8 inputs for drums and stuff) and during drums I would use the Lucid converters for snare and kick, and the delta coverters for everything else. For vocals and whatever else, I'd always use the Lucid. This would be my purchase of choice if I were to purchase tomorrow. No if, ands or buts. As a matter of fact, make me an offer on an Aardvark2496 that I can't refuse, and its in the mail to you. Still in the box, all original packaging and manual. This one has never even been plugged into a computer, and the exposed circuits on the card have never been out of the static bag. Paid $550 for it, plus rent-to-own fees, which were almost $100. Make an offer. ANYONE make an offer, and watch me buy my Lucid the next day!
Also, on the Mackie monitors... I like those suckers a whole lot. They sound pretty fat, get pretty good lows, and they jam when you crank em up. Awful expensive though. I still wonder how the Behringer copycats sound. Almost identicle in every way.
Peace,
Paul
 
Hmmm...

I thought you were being sarcastic about the Lynx two and the Lucid post up above...

"Good luck selling yourself short. This time next year you'll be wondering why you didn't listen to me, but its your money.
I wish someone woulda told ME before I spent the cash."

This can be taken both ways, or atleast confused me the second time I went back and read it. I thought it was serious the first time I read it though, which was correct, you got me inspired towards the lucid. Then I felt dumb because I read it again and thought it was a total joke (sarcasm), yeah go ahead get ripped off type of post... glad you cleared that up.

I've been reading up on an article, it's link is posted where it say effects on voices or something to that degree. It was saying how although there's lots of cheap soundcards, they don't tell you that 24/96 on some cards and others doesn't mean anything.
I took down this quote on paper when I was reading it because it seemed important...

" Ask them if they produce a 24bit output wordlength, ask how it is produced, if unsatisfactory, look elsewhere."

The thing that made it stand out to me is, they don't tell you this, you need to ask...

some cards although have 24bit, don't have 24bit output wordlength...so there's a reason some cards cost so much more, but appear almost exact in specs. It has to do with how far it carries and multiplys/divides down the numbers of each sample, while some go down to the point where it's inaudible, and some just round it off...where the sound gets loss or can change in sound. also due to the speed it does it in etc... it was kinda confusing, but I got the impression that it is worth paying the extra cash...one of the reasons I got so into your post was I thought I was onto something that was gonna be better in the end, which I think it might be now.

I still think that a 2000 dollar mic/preamp is disgusting, but I think that in general your converter/sample rate shouldn't be gone for the bargain...because this is what draws the line on your quality. I'm not positive, but it's how i feel now, in my gut instinct. Read that article and see what you get out of it, might be completely different.

thanks for reading...

tubedude...I think that the 600$ lucid would only be one converter, either an A/D or an D/A because the A/D and D/A is 2000list and 1500list, but I've found it for 1300, if you found this for around 700-600 I must be dreaming... Do you think I'd only need one, or both? Does a converter take care of all the sample rate etc in place of the soundcard, or is it important to still have a good soundcard to take full advantage of the converter?
I might just get the Lynx two, since it's about 500 less, but it really doesn't look 500$ better than Lynx one and doesn't have midi ports.
.....later!
 
Last edited:
What about doing all the sequecing and midi and background parts at home(that dont require mics,converters,etc.), taking it to a pro studio to put down the vocals?....
 
Gidge said:
What about doing all the sequecing and midi and background parts at home(that dont require mics,converters,etc.), taking it to a pro studio to put down the vocals?....
Click to expand...

There's an interesting idea. The expense necessary to put together a vocal signal chain comparable to what you'll find in even a small studio easily justifies the $30 an hour you might pay. Then you can get away with very basic setup at home, and if you come to the studio with everything mixed then it wouldn't take much to just add vocals on top. Still, it might be nice to be able to do some of this at home...even just as scratch vocals. And with the price of good gear what it is now...I guess its a bit of a toss up. Still, the benefit of having a pro engineer to work with is invaluable. I guess it just depends what your needs and your goals are. This is situation is somewhat unique to hip-hop. With rock and other stuff you would benefit quite a bit from doing guitars/drums/bass, as well as vocals, in a studio, which could get expensive. Think about it, priz...


PRiZ said:
You sound like a lazy fat bitch that can't hold on to money long enough or work hard enough to get decent equipment, so instead chooses to make fun of those that can to fullfill his own self depriving jealousy with a ghetto gear snobby disillusion that he's actualy happy with what he has...
Click to expand...

The thanks I get for trying to help a brotha get the best setup for the $$$...... :(

The truth is that I'm as big a gear slut as anybody but you have to realize that there is HUGE diminishing point of return when it comes to pro audio gear, especially considering recent bargains like the RNC and the Marshall MXL-V67.

c7sus said:
Like Czar said you are gonna need more than 2 I/O.
Click to expand...

Hah, how many times have I said that? Maybe if we write it backwards on his forehead or something.

c7sus said:
Like I said before..... I admire your enthusiasm but you are in way over your experience......
Click to expand...

I agree 110%. This BBS is a great place to start, though. Priz, you just have to be patient and appreciate that a lot of people here have gone through the same process that you are now going through and might have valuable insights for you. You ask for advice but you seem to want everybody's answer to be the same as what you have already arrived at. We're not going to echo back to you that you "only need two channels" cause it just isn't true.

I think you need to rethink your equipment needs and if you want help we're here for ya but expect real advice, we're not gonna BS you like a bunch of music store employees.
 
hey Priz,

forget about syncing a converter like lucid or apogee to a spdif input. The audio travelling down the same line will add much jitter to the sound making it sound like your basic soundcard

Make sure that the sound card you buy has Wordclock out, and in and make sure the converters you get can sync via wordclock.
 
ok...

Doel, I said I was sorry...

Howmany I/O do I need...? 2 in 2 out should be good, shouldn't it? I thought I was suppose to use the souncard for this and just use a converter for conversion etc...?

C7sus..."You are not gonna be able to run soft synth apps and recording apps at the same time on your computer. IF soft synths are your solution then you are gonna need TWO computers. ONE for the synths, and ONE for the recording"

I thought you could do everything on the computer at the same time as long as you have enough cpu, memory etc...
Whatabout full duplex or enhanced full duplex...
couldn't I just play what I have created with softsynths and then record vocals over top when I'm done...?

Gidge..."What about doing all the sequecing and midi and background parts at home(that dont require mics,converters,etc.), "

Are you saying that converters arn't used for this...?
I'll use software programs... I'm not sure what your getting at.
Isn't sample rate used for the sound of midi and background parts...?

Cyan..."forget about syncing a converter like lucid or apogee to a spdif input. The audio travelling down the same line will add much jitter to the sound making it sound like your basic soundcard

Wouldn't I use an AES connector of some sort, not SPDIF...?
The wordclock makes sense...

Thanks for the advice...
 
I have RME DIGI 96/8 PST plus 4 I/O extension boards, for MIDI I have Motu's Pocket Express the whole set up cost me $550, but you say you need only one I/O so it will cost you around $300 for the card and $75 for MIDI interface if you look on Ebay. I'd love to share the recording result's with you but I can't . I just bought a G4/466 with OS 9.1 - which doesn't work with my card and Digital Performer. Next week I'm getting Os 9.0.4 which will support this card. But as far as sound goes, even though I can't record the card works when I hook up my Microwave XT to it and monitor through Alesis Ones. The sound is very fresh and accurate. Remember the Lynxone card doesn't have Asio 2.0 yet plus it's not multiclient. I doubt that the converters are better on LynxOne or Lucid stuff it may be the same - but not better. And RME is always a head in the driver department -especially if you're on Mac platform. Also the latency on RME stuff beats any sound card, except DSP cards of course. Buy the RME stuff you won't regret it, plus you can always upgrade it to 4 or 8 I/O and add a Word Clock later.

Boris
 
l almost forgot. Based on all the opinions I've read in many forums the Event 20/20, are very good monitors. Personally never had to listen to Mackie or Even stuff, but if I had $600 - $800 to spend on monitors my choice would be Genelec. I just got back from Digidesign's show here in Toronto, there were about twenty booths ( Pro Tools, Bias, Bitheads, Waves .....) every single one had Genelec monitors I think 1029 model - all I can say is wowwwwww. The sound is so accurate for such a small monitor, and I didn't see any high end converters hooked up to it only a small mackie mixer. The sound was better then in a movie theater. For now I have Alesis Ones and next week I'm getting Beyerdynamic Headphones so I can compare between the two for the final mix.

Boris
 
priz i have a simple question for you. lets say you see a new keyboard and you want this keyboard....lets say you see this new sound module and you want this module....lets say you see this new mic and you want it.....where are you gonna plug the stuff into? you need to give your self room for other things priz.
You are not gonna be able to run soft synth apps and recording apps at the same time on your computer. IF soft synths are your solution then you are gonna need TWO computers. ONE for the synths, and ONE for the recording......
Click to expand...
priz. he means at the EXACT same time. so basically you cant have reaktor and cubase running at the same time. now what you can do is make the music export as wav and load it into the sequencer. chop it up and after that lay vocals. priz dolemite said something that i must quote him on.you NEED to HEED this.
The expense necessary to put together a vocal signal chain comparable to what you'll find in even a small studio easily justifies the $30 an hour you might pay. Then you can get away with very basic setup at home, and if you come to the studio with everything mixed then it wouldn't take much to just add vocals on top. Still, it might be nice to be able to do some of this at home...even just as scratch vocals. And with the price of good gear what it is now...I guess its a bit of a toss up. Still, the benefit of having a pro engineer to work with is invaluable. I guess it just depends what your needs and your goals are. This is situation is somewhat unique to hip-hop. With rock and other stuff you would benefit quite a bit from doing guitars/drums/bass, as well as vocals, in a studio, which could get expensive. Think about it, priz...
Click to expand...
priz i have ENOUGH hardware and software to do an album from start to finish. however i want FRESH ears to bring out my music and take it to a new level. so what i do is take my digital tracks,convert to wav,drop it in cubase at the big studio,lay vocals,mix,drop it on 2 inch tape and go back in digital. you want your vocals to be clean. do you know what clean is? do you know how to get a clean sound? do you know proper micing techniques? do you know the weakness and strong points of your room? if your planning on releasing your work SOON ie to the public do your production at home and take it to a studio. if you are NOT planning on doing this soon learn how to get the best sound from your stuff and then start your project.



czar


ps LISTEN to what these guys are telling you.
 
I agree...

Dropping vocals in a pro-studio aka soundproof room and all would be the best choice, and if I practice till i can get it right the first try it wouldn't cost much... but i still need a mic preamp etc, to listen to myself and improve, critique etc...

Although I don't know how to do all the mic distancing and soundproofing I'd like to learn eventually.

"now what you can do is make the music export as wav and load it into the sequencer. chop it up and after that lay vocals."

That's what I was planning on doing... :)

I don't really know what to say, but the RME does look good for features and I'm sure it sounds good... I'd like to keep the option for a Lucid open though, because it would take the sound quality to the next level...I really dought that the converters are as good as the lynx and deffinitely not the lucid.

"but you say you need only one I/O so it will cost you around $300 for the card and $75 for MIDI interface if you look on Ebay."
I don't know how many I/O's I need anymore...?
I need a preamp, pair of powered monitors, a keyboard (midi I assume..?), converter (mayby), I don't think I need any for software, see above... and the ability of turntable.
How many I/O's is this... I'm not sure what's goes in and what goes out.

some older questions...?

"Gidge..."What about doing all the sequecing and midi and background parts at home(that dont require mics,converters,etc.), "

Are you saying that converters arn't used for this...?
I'll use software programs... I'm not sure what your getting at.
Isn't sample rate used for the sound of midi and background parts...? "

Cyan..."forget about syncing a converter like lucid or apogee to a spdif input. The audio travelling down the same line will add much jitter to the sound making it sound like your basic soundcard

Wouldn't I use an AES connector of some sort, not SPDIF...?
The wordclock makes sense...

Is ebay safe...??? Is it risky???
 
Last edited:
Ebay is safe if you use Escrow service ( www.tradenable.com ) as for converters LynxOne are not better then RME, lucid are better, but you won't fell the differnce -only a pro vitha lot of experiance will.

Boris
 
c7sus (I think) said "You are not gonna be able to run soft synth apps and recording apps at the same time on your computer. IF soft synths are your solution then you are gonna need TWO computers. ONE for the synths, and ONE for the recording...... "
Dude, check out Sonar, the 1st to take advantage of Directx8 and WDM drivers. Your soft synths are all combined with your midi and audio sequencing into one pretty tight package, and you not only use one computer, you can do it all through one program. Sweet. A little buggy yet, but they release a patch every 3-4 weeks so far and they are killing problems fast. This program will be the NUTS a year from now, and I've tried a bunch.

Priz said "Dropping vocals in a pro-studio aka soundproof room and all would be the best choice, and if I practice till i can get it right the first try it wouldn't cost much... "
Tracking in a pro studio, yeah, it'll sound better. But soundproofing isnt having TOO much do with sound, unless hes over a subway or something... its ususally the size and shape of the room that may make the difference, especially on drums.

Rubo4- you said something to the efftect of "if I had $900 to spend, i'd get the Genelecs."
$900 will get you ONE Genelec, not a stereo pair. God, I'd love have em though :)
 
hmmm Delta 10/10 Bundle
Asus aus4l2 main board as much ram as one can cram :-)
966 MHZ P3 CPU
Mackie HR824 Monitors
Mackie1604 vlz use the mackies mic pres xdr,s
2x loom (8x8)
Scsi Hd plus scsi cdrw
Cubase
oh forgot win98

i guess and anything else that takes ones fancy

Priz dont need all that but one day he may get into other recording he can grow into this stuff i think thats a sound lil set up
and i am sure if you get the scsi drives correct it all should run fast enough i guess dedicate the pc to sound only to save on all the dramas :-)
 
Thanks again!

"Dude, check out Sonar, the 1st to take advantage of Directx8 and WDM drivers"

Cubase uses WDM drivers too, just with ASIO 2 too.
I've never seen a soundcard with directx8 drivers, infact hardly see any with just direct x, most seem to be ASIO and directsound.

I still don't know how many I/O's I need...
here's a list of what I need to plug in:
- Pair of monitors
- preamp to MIC
- keyboard
- a turntable
- a converter (optional)
- that's it...I'm sure I can always unplug something, to replace with something else if I need it, unless it's the monitors or converter.

Everything else I'm planning on doing in software:
Cubase or Sonar is a tuff decision...but Sonar from what you said makes sense.

About converters...Are they only used for recording, or do they make everything sound better? I'm just not to sure about how much they'll help me if I'm mainly going to be using samples, will the sounds from a keyboard sound better?
I've asked this question before, but havn't got an answer yet.
I know it will help when dithering alot, this is probably the best reason I'd assume... also the AD or DA converter, which would I need, or would I need both...?

Hey tubedude I'm wondering what you have to say about the RME DIGI96/8 card... I will be able to expand to the lucid, I don't know if I'll want to, since I'm sure it sounds really good already, but in the future I might want the boost...

thanks...
 
I know nothing about the RME, therefore I havent had anything to say.

Directx8 actually takes place in windows and programs that take advantage of it. You can automate all of your effects and they are all real time. They change instantly when you adjust something.

WDM drivers would actually be what you would want in your soundcard to take adavantage of directx8 and super low latencies. I think the ASIO drivers are a form of kernal streaming, but I dont think they are actually WDM... I may be wrong.

Sonar is nice, I recommend it over Cubase, at least in the near future when another patch or 2 come out. As far as looks, cubase AND sonar BOTH get on my nerves a little. Cubase is too dark, and Sonar is too brightly colored. I notice that Sonar does have better response time than the Cubase that I've tried out. Another reason I like Sonar... the meters read fast.
 
uhh.

"Cubase is too dark, and Sonar is too brightly colored"
are you talking about the way it looks, or sounds...?
Also if I need more than 2 channels, how many do I need...
 
not positive...

I was gonna wait and see how much I had after I decided on my preliminary gear, but currently their was some deals going on. A shure beta87A Condensor MIC at 250 which is much lower than the list price. So I was thinking about that since it's a good notch down, aswell as the SE5000 vacuum tube Condenser at 300, that's half price! The rode NTK is deffinitely good, but clocks in at 480 lowest I've seen, so I think I'll pass.
Last of all the famous Marshll V67 for a cheaper 179$ mic...
I havn't decided, although I honestly would like to get one of the more expensive ones with a deal...why?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top