Cheap Chinese L-D condenser mic choices?

[Be Loveless]

I have just read six pages of SHIT. Here are my thoughts.
1. The Rob Howell guys original post did read a bit like ad copy.
2. I did'nt think Harvey Gersts comments were out of line.
3. You all could have left it at that and moved on.
4. Through all this bickering that had very little to do with the original post you've managed to scare off two very experienced individuals who were willing to lend themselves to this forum but have probably come to the conclusion that they do not have time to throw away thier expertise on this bullshit arguing.
5. I am here to learn and you all just cost me access to two possible "teachers".
6. Hope you all had fun.

 

[Han]

Acorec, the forums where the real pro's 'communicate' have theads like this too.
A guy (a wannabe pro) asked a question about whether to use a DI, or the instrument in of his pre, was bashed all over the place because of his 'stoopid' question. Snobbery!

There is something I wanted to say for a long time: there are 'big boys' in my country, who record with 'big names' and the recordings sell half a million copies in a week (the Netherlands is very small) and you know what? It doesn't sound good.

There are guys who record in their homestudio who get a much better sound out of their limited gear.

I did a Google search for Ted Perlman and I found much, the guy has an impressive carrier. You can find some of his work on MP3 as well and I've listened to it. No I'm not going to give any comment, find out for yourself.

My point is that I know a lot of professional engineers, some have golden records on the wall, but have no clue about stereo placements and mic a drumkit like a mediocre PA engineer.

I've seen homerecording guys here who know everything about MS, Blumlein, NOS, DIN, ORTF and Decca tree placements.

If a really good artist enters my place, I can make him/she sound really good and so can a whole lot of other engineers. It's just that some have the luck that something they did went really big and famous.

 

[DJL]

Acorec, the forums where the real pro's 'communicate' have theads like this too.
A guy (a wannabe pro) asked a question about whether to use a DI, or the instrument in of his pre, was bashed all over the place because of his 'stoopid' question. Snobbery!

There is something I wanted to say for a long time: there are 'big boys' in my country, who record with 'big names' and the recordings sell half a million copies in a week (the Netherlands is very small) and you know what? It doesn't sound good.

There are guys who record in their homestudio who get a much better sound out of their limited gear.

I did a Google search for Ted Perlman and I found much, the guy has an impressive carrier. You can find some of his work on MP3 as well and I've listened to it. No I'm not going to give any comment, find out for yourself.

My point is that I know a lot of professional engineers, some have golden records on the wall, but have no clue about stereo placements and mic a drumkit like a mediocre PA engineer.

I've seen homerecording guys here who know everything about MS, Blumlein, NOS, DIN, ORTF and Decca tree placements.

If a really good artist enters my place, I can make him/she sound really good and so can a whole lot of other engineers. It's just that some have the luck that something they did went really big and famous.

On the same note... I think most normal people have pretty good hearing and can pass the hearing test with flying colors. People listen to the radio and CD’s all the time, they don’t need to be professionals to know when it sounds good or not.

There are a few pro's like Harvey, yourself and etc on this bbs... but I think most of us are just home recording people, sure some of us have made a few bucks recording but we don't have any gold records... but that doesn't mean we can't hear, or our opinions don't count. I'm not saying we can't learn from someone with a gold record either.

 

[crazydoc]

... but that doesn't mean ....our opinions don't count as much as someone with a gold record.

Yes, it does.

 

[Han]

but that doesn't mean we can't hear or our opinions don't count as much as someone with a gold record. It doesn't mean we can't learn from someone with a gold record either.

But I was trying to say that there are engineers with golden records who could learn someting from some 'home recording' engineers.

 

[DJL]

Yes, it does.

Yea that didn't read right... I must of been editing while you were posting... lol.

 

[DJL]

But I was trying to say that there are engineers with golden records who could learn someting from some 'home recording' engineers.

Yes, I got your meaning and agree... while also stating it's not always that way. PS... by-the-way your studio is more of a pro studio than a home studio IMO... I think of a home studio as being mostly for private use.

 

[acorec]

So, here it all goes again. We come full circle and have to get back to the old shit.

If I may, let me say this. The C1 and U87 are stock mics. I have had many C1's on the demo rack since the inception of the SP mics. Karl Winkler from Neumann came to our booth and brought his own U87 and Neumann engineer to our booth thinking we did something to it, because Karl did our demo as well and was surprised. So upon his request, we put his U87 up, he listened to it and the C1, unplugged his U87 and walked away. He knew we did nothing to the C1 because we opened it for him to prove we did not infringe on his designs, and we did nothing to the U87. I challenge anyone at any show, to bring any tech to try and find any mods, bring any Neumann personal, or bring your own U87 and or C1, and we will put it on the rack.

First of all, you guys are thinking the U87 is some sort of great mic. You always have to eq the thing to get it to sound any good. The C1 has many similar qualities of a U87, but I think they are not identical...but who cares? I put the U87 up because all the other inexpensive mic companies are afraid to do so! I am happy to have the C1 next to a U87. It hangs quite nicely with it and shows the value the C1 and other SP mics offer. I never said they are the same or exact. People hear differently. Many people think they are very much alike. Who am I, and who are you to tell them what they hear.

There are a few people here who work with, or have worked with the big boys. There are some members that are seriously looking to learn and gain more insight to the craft of recording. Then, there are some who are here to do nothing more than disrupt and cause trouble.

Robb Howell and Ted Perlman are big boys. They earn their living by making music with top professionals. The majority of you don't. Some of you know more than others, some know nothing. Some I don't like, but do have some knowledge of use and application to pass on to you guys. No it is not DJL!

To keep a Ted Perlman or a Robb Howell here is like winning the lottery, but these guys are always driven off leaving the real working knowledge away from these boards. If this is what you all want because you think they or I am Spamming, then fine. I suggest you all think about it first. Because if you are here to learn, you need to learn from people who make hit records for a living, and not from some loud mouth wanna bees who don't know shit.

Now there are a bunch of you guys that I like and I am not aiming this at you, but don't you think it is time for this shit to stop? Ask questions and verify who some of these people are and learn from them. Why do you wish to chase them away. I believe Robb loves the SE Mic...So what, Ted likes SP and ADK, Harvey likes Marshall's, I like girls and DJL likes barn animals...

If Ted Perlman uses our mics and in his opinion the C1 sounds the same as a U87, or if Robb thinks the SE sounds as good as a C12 and they say this here while making hits and working with top pros with these mics...who the fuck are we to question that?

Many of you may think a mic they use may be bright or dark, so what, that is you're opinion. If that is the case, don't use the fucking mic they do and use what your ears tell you you like. Until you can post the Bio of hits Ted has done, and Robb has done, then lighten the fuck up and learn. Use a different mic if you want to, but learn technique from these guys...They know better than you. Don't drive them away.

Don't listen to the crap coming out of DJL fingers. The guy is here to cause trouble. I swear, he does not know shit from shineola and starts all kinds of accusations for fun. I am not going to rant on DJL so we can all start more wars. I know what he is, but you all need to think about what you want this group to be.

I deny any accusations that DJL or acorec has suggested, and I offer $100,000.00 if any of you can prove that we rig or mod any mic we display at trade shows. Now why don't you all go back to your day jobs and do your homework at night.

If I offended anyone here with my comments other than DJL, I am sorry.....

I have no C1. I guess the fact that many other people have them, and all seem to be satisfied, then It is a great mic.

I am just confused.
You say that sound is very subjective. Everybody hears each mic differently.

I am just trying to understand, given the above assertion, why is it necessary to have a Neuman U87 next to it for comparison?

Why compare it to anything at all?

I say leave the C1 up there all alone and let people judge it for themselves.
I do apoligize for what I said as I have no axe to grind, I have none of your products. Your mics all have positive reviews by almost all who own them, why bother with Neuman? I think you may be a bit beyond having to prove your product to the world. For some reason or another, people tend to get "Neuman-defensive" if they have 'em. Other people get "Studio-Projects-defensive" if they have 'em.
Going head to head promotes bashing one or the other.
I have Neumans and use them all the time. I have been interested in the T3 as I have heard great things about them. The main point here is that all my mics (with a few exceptions) are high end mics. It is only because of the reputation amongst users of your products that I have become interested.

Hell, I may get one myself. But, my mind has been opened by the relatively long time reputation that you have earned.

 

[acorec]

How do you know this, Acorec?

Do you research every guy who posts in them?

Sorry to change the subject. I was just curious.

I know this because I spend 99% of my forum time on Recpit. I see a post started, some debate, some disagreement, and lots of people on either side of the debate.

I DON'T see people posting about a product and believing in it so much that the real pros get bashed and chased away.

There has to be a limit as to how much people can bullshit themselves in believing that their opinion about a mic is right. You should know that because you steer people away from this type of blind love all the time. You have experience tenfold above many people on here, you know that the rationale behind some of their arguments are based on having no experience and taking a blind guess as to the cause of their problems.

So, Yes there is the occasional bash-fest, but almost always it is set straight by the working pros. Here is another story.

 

[Flatpicker]

...I'm not saying we can't learn from someone with a gold record either.

I’m sure that’s irrelevant. No need to worry about any “gold record” guys posting much here. Just the same old re-hashed crap over and over.

 

[CanopuS]

This thread is now essentially pointless, because regardless of what is said here, many people will have an intrest in SP mics. To be honest, the opinions here mean nothing to me. I have a B1. I like it. If I need to get another SP mic, I will, nothing here is gonna stop me, and Alans reputation is too respectable for something petty like this to take effect.

Now go make some music, isn't that what we ought to be doing?

 

[noisedude]

I am just trying to understand, given the above assertion, why is it necessary to have a Neuman U87 next to it for comparison?

Why compare it to anything at all?

Because people know what a U87 sounds like (to them at least) so they have a frame of reference for this new mic which is potentially going for a similar kinda sound in a lower price bracket.

 

[alanhyatt]

I am just trying to understand, given the above assertion, why is it necessary to have a Neuman U87 next to it for comparison?

.

Acorec,

Its like having multiple monitors. I have three sets of monitors. When I listen, I listen on one set to get a point of frame of reference, so when I switch to the other monitors, I know exactly what I am mixing to and for. If a client or producer is looking for a certain mix, then that has to be accomplished. Harvey understands this perfectly.

You can mix for radio, CD, and many other situations, but each one must have a reference point so you know what you are listening to. Otherwise, all you hear is a sound and you have no basis of that sound other than you either like it, or not, but you do not know what it sounds like unless a reference point is offered. Without it, your mix will not sound very good. Everyone on this thread says they have ears, but the truth is they have ears that tell them what they like, and not trained ears to tell them what they know, or what really is happening like the pros do. A few here have them. Most don't. A trained ear in the studio is not something everyone can do, and do well.

This was one of the things I hated at trade shows. You go from booth to booth listening to all this product, and have no clue what it sounds like, much less in a very loud environment.

So when I got into designing the first SP mics, I said I was going to put up a reference point on our demo racks so people can come to the rack, listen to a reference they probably know, and then when they hear the SP mics, they "would know" what they were listening to. It was everyone else that made it out to be a comparison....

So, some people think the C1 and U87 are the same, others don't. Does it matter? Everyone's situation is different. In pro studios, you have different designers doing the room, so from a Pelonis room to a Hedley room, they are different. That means the same two mics will sound different.

Now amplify that by the millions of home studios with or without room treatments. Everything sounds different. So what one hears in his room is different to what you will hear in yours.... So opinions are offered here more than factual information as trained ears are not something you learn at home.

The U87 is there for reference to refresh your ears to have that reference point before you listen to the other mics....

 

[DJL]

I’m sure that’s irrelevant. No need to worry about any “gold record” guys posting much here. Just the same old re-hashed crap over and over.

At least I tried to answer the original question in my first post of this thread.